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Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

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Based purely on that anecdotal evidence that 1 in 5 gets liver damage, I'll swerve it, cos I need my liver working at optimal efficiency during 'Drink as much as you can in the house to ensure you don't kill your family time', or 'lockdown' as the press like to call it.
 
FoxForceFive said:
What does the evidence show?
The French study followed work by Chinese researchers which suggested that hydroxychloroquine can slow infections from Sars-CoV-2, the virus behind Covid-19, by blocking it from entering cells in the body. But more recent, albeit small-scale, research from China has shown that patients who were treated with the drugs fought off coronavirus no more quickly than those who didn’t get it. Indeed, one patient given hydroxychloroquine severely worsened in condition while four patients on the medicine developed signs of liver damage and experienced diarrhea.

Regardless of these findings, any drug being used for a certain purpose before full clinical trials are completed is, by definition, untested and unproven. It’s too early to say if hydroxychloroquine can have a major benefit or not.

Source:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/coronavirus-cure-fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-trump
Click to expand...

I think some of the problem with that trial is that it was done for treatment (where it ideally needs to be combined with Azithromycin) but what I'm talking about is prevention to stop people getting it in the first place. That study doesn't cover that, just treatment once you have it.
 
Would Novartis and Sandoz be putting their name to this if they didn't have some evidence? That liver thing would be bad, but people take these drugs all the time, they're cheap and they're deemed safe. Is that a dose issue? I know if I was working in a ward with Covid patients I'd want some. The CEO of a big pharma corp worth hundreds of billions is saying it kills the virus and they're making loads of it to donate.

ZURICH (Reuters) - Novartis Chief Executive Vas Narasimhan said his Sandoz generics unit's malaria, lupus and arthritis drug hydroxychloroquine is the company's biggest hope against the coronavirus, Swiss newspaper SonntagsZeitung reported on Sunday.
Novartis has pledged to donate 130 million doses and is supporting clinical trials needed before the medicine, which U.S. President Donald Trump also has been promoting, can be approved for use against the coronavirus.
Other companies including Bayer and Teva have also agreed to donate hydroxychloroquine or similar drugs, while Gilead Sciences is testing its experimental drug remdesivir against coronavirus.
"Pre-clinical studies in animals as well as the first data from clinical studies show that hydroxychloroquine kills the coronavirus," Narasimhan told the newspaper. "We're working with Swiss hospitals on possible treatment protocols for the clinical use of the drug, but it's too early to say anything definitively."
He said the company is currently looking for additional active drug ingredients to make more hydroxychloroquine, should clinical trials be successful.
Narasimhan said three other Novartis drugs - Jakavi for cancer, multiple sclerosis drug Gilenya and fever drug Ilaris - are being studied for their effect on complications related to COVID-19, the newspaper reported. This follows separate efforts to re-purpose drugs made by companies including Roche and Sanofi to treat complications related to the disease.
 
Rosco said:
Coronavirus: Chinese wet markets still operation despite COVID-19 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...Xg-9ifcQIHVo4laOUU_18qEvt0nagqXpFf7D2pvdJss3U


“The markets have gone back to operating in exactly the same way as they did before coronavirus,” a correspondent to visited the market told the publication.

“The only difference is that security guards try to stop anyone taking pictures, which would never have happened before.”
Click to expand...


Sadly, just more fake news from western state-controlled propaganda mouth piece. It's so sad that the media in the west is not free.

 
TBH , wet markets in China are not the big problem.

All over Asia, (and probably other parts of the world) there are 'wet markets' wilder than those found in Wuhan. I always make it a point to take a visit when I'm on holiday (holding my breath at times). There may not be exotic wildlife but there is almost always a variety of live animals being sold and slaughtered, alongside fresh produce and butchered meat.

These are not 'wet markets'. They are often the only markets that these people have. Unlike Wuhan (which had much less of an excuse, being a very wealthy city), there is little likelihood of these going away because:
(1) these places are too poor to afford hygienic storage facilities or refrigeration. If the vendors slaughtered the meat before bringing it to the market, it would be bad by the time it was sold
(2) there are no large industrialized pig farms, and no central slaughter facilities, and the local government is too poor to build one, or enforce public health laws.
(3) there is little education in rural areas, so the populace is not going to understand why the government is stopping their livelihood.


Hygiene and public health, unfortunately, is a luxury that comes with wealth and industrialization. Yes, it is indeed a time bomb waiting to explode.
 
Rosco said:
Coronavirus: Chinese wet markets still operation despite COVID-19 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...Xg-9ifcQIHVo4laOUU_18qEvt0nagqXpFf7D2pvdJss3U


“The markets have gone back to operating in exactly the same way as they did before coronavirus,” a correspondent to visited the market told the publication.

“The only difference is that security guards try to stop anyone taking pictures, which would never have happened before.”
Click to expand...

Urgghhh, fucking vile.

What's a good pangolin recipe anyway? Pangolin panini?
 
Woland said:
Would Novartis and Sandoz be putting their name to this if they didn't have some evidence? That liver thing would be bad, but people take these drugs all the time, they're cheap and they're deemed safe. Is that a dose issue? I know if I was working in a ward with Covid patients I'd want some. The CEO of a big pharma corp worth hundreds of billions is saying it kills the virus and they're making loads of it to donate.

ZURICH (Reuters) - Novartis Chief Executive Vas Narasimhan said his Sandoz generics unit's malaria, lupus and arthritis drug hydroxychloroquine is the company's biggest hope against the coronavirus, Swiss newspaper SonntagsZeitung reported on Sunday.
Novartis has pledged to donate 130 million doses and is supporting clinical trials needed before the medicine, which U.S. President Donald Trump also has been promoting, can be approved for use against the coronavirus.
Other companies including Bayer and Teva have also agreed to donate hydroxychloroquine or similar drugs, while Gilead Sciences is testing its experimental drug remdesivir against coronavirus.
"Pre-clinical studies in animals as well as the first data from clinical studies show that hydroxychloroquine kills the coronavirus," Narasimhan told the newspaper. "We're working with Swiss hospitals on possible treatment protocols for the clinical use of the drug, but it's too early to say anything definitively."
He said the company is currently looking for additional active drug ingredients to make more hydroxychloroquine, should clinical trials be successful.
Narasimhan said three other Novartis drugs - Jakavi for cancer, multiple sclerosis drug Gilenya and fever drug Ilaris - are being studied for their effect on complications related to COVID-19, the newspaper reported. This follows separate efforts to re-purpose drugs made by companies including Roche and Sanofi to treat complications related to the disease.
Click to expand...

Nope. Brendan said nope so that's the end of it. And also Trump mentioned it so it must be made up tinfoil hat lies.
Back to the real world, I think we're going to see these anti-malarials turn the tide on it until the vaccine comes out, I hope it does anyway, China, Russia and France seem to think so. X-quine variants seem to be fairly simple to produce and in mass quantities.
 
The Chinese have eaten them almost to extinction - which isn't really any signifier of them being tasty, as they'll fucking eat anything - but at least this may allow them to repopulate.

Mind you, they do look very number one tasty yum yum!

jbdodane-500x281-460x258.jpg
 
Mors said:
Nope. Brendan said nope so that's the end of it. And also Trump mentioned it so it must be made up tinfoil hat lies.
Back to the real world, I think we're going to see these anti-malarials turn the tide on it until the vaccine comes out, I hope it does anyway, China, Russia and France seem to think so. X-quine variants seem to be fairly simple to produce and in mass quantities.
Click to expand...

Why would I take an experimental drug, with known side effects including liver damage, just to prevent the spread of a virus which I can just as easily avoid by staying away from people, and even if that failed it would result in little more than a fever and sore throat? You're basically asking me to sacrifice my liver, to save someone else's life. I don't see this being a popular treatment.
 
dantes said:
Why would I take an experimental drug, with known side effects including liver damage, just to prevent the spread of a virus which I can just as easily avoid by staying away from people, and even if that failed it would result in little more than a fever and sore throat? You're basically asking me to sacrifice my liver, to save someone else's life. I don't see this being a popular treatment.
Click to expand...
All the risks of alcoholism, with none of the fun.
 
manwithnoname said:
The Chinese have eaten them almost to extinction - which isn't really any signifier of them being tasty, as they'll fucking eat anything - but at least this may allow them to repopulate.

Mind you, they do look very number one tasty yum yum!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I was wrong, it seems pangolin stew is the dish of choice.


pangolins-1236527.jpg
 
Again, that is a potential not guaranteed side effect of the antibiotic drug to go with the anti-malaria drugs once you have it. The anti-malarials seem to stop you getting it in the first place and do not give you liver damage.
 
There's an antibiotic for malaria? Malaria isn't a bacteria, nor a virus, it's a protozoa. Is it a coincidence that these drugs work against a virus?
 
Mors said:
Again, that is a potential not guaranteed side effect of the antibiotic drug to go with the anti-malaria drugs once you have it. The anti-malarials seem to stop you getting it in the first place and do not give you liver damage.
Click to expand...

There seem to be a long list of potential side effects:
  • Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
  • blurred vision or other vision changes
  • chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
  • cough or hoarseness
  • dark urine
  • decreased urination
  • defective color vision
  • diarrhea
  • difficulty breathing
  • difficulty seeing at night
  • dizziness or fainting
  • fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
  • feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
  • feeling that others can hear your thoughts
  • feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
  • fever with or without chills
  • general feeling of tiredness or weakness
  • headache
  • inability to move the eyes
  • increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
  • joint or muscle pain
  • large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
  • loss of hearing
  • lower back or side pain
  • noisy breathing
  • painful or difficult urination
  • red irritated eyes
  • red skin lesions, often with a purple center
  • severe mood or mental changes
  • sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
  • sticking out of the tongue
  • stomach pain
  • swelling of the feet or lower legs
  • swollen or painful glands
  • trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
  • uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
  • unusual behavior
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
  • unusual facial expressions
  • unusual tiredness or weakness
  • yellow eyes or skin
  • Continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
  • feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
  • irritability
  • nausea
  • nervousness
  • nightmares
  • sensation of spinning
  • shakiness and unsteady walk
  • uncontrolled eye movements
  • unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
  • vomiting
 
dantes said:
Unfortunately I was wrong, it seems pangolin stew is the dish of choice.


pangolins-1236527.jpg
Click to expand...

Delightful cutlery too!

Wait til Frog Xi Ping or Super Y Number One see this, though. They'll immediately denounce the crockery as not Chinese and the use of a yellow plastic-handled knife as more likely to be in Vietnam or something
 
FoxForceFive said:
Based purely on that anecdotal evidence that 1 in 5 gets liver damage, I'll swerve it, cos I need my liver working at optimal efficiency during 'Drink as much as you can in the house to ensure you don't kill your family time', or 'lockdown' as the press like to call it.
Click to expand...

Then this is the way forward for you my friend, the Belarus approach. Vodka and saunas.

 
Although I for one am in favour of a significant proportion of the population feeling that others are controlling their thoughts and having uncontrolled eye movements.
 
Still no good clinical evidence on HCQ. Appears to have in vitro antiviral effect. The French clinical study was so poorly conducted I might as well have done it. All we have now for evidence is hypothesis generations - enough tidbits to suggest more investigation needs to be done. And it is.

But as of right now there isnt anything there for widespread deployment. Yes, it will likely get used in some life or death cases. Yes, further studies may in fact demonstrate benefit. Yes, a month from now might look back at this post and shrug. But not right now.

It is a rather toxic drug and is being proposed for combination use with an antibiotic that, when used together, is potentially deadly.

At this point it is not appropriate for blanket use, completely fucking stupid to stockpile or use it for prophylaxis, and Trump should be impeached again for his irresponsible tweets on the subject.

And people with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis are rightfully freaking out because they depend on this drug and their supply is disappearing fast fast fast.
 
Hyena said:
Sadly, just more fake news from western state-controlled propaganda mouth piece. It's so sad that the media in the west is not free.

Click to expand...

Haha yeah I did a quick reverse image lookup and found the same thing - from Vietnam in November last year. The bat pic was from Indonesia and Yulin is a despicable dog market held once a year (thousands of Chinese activists are now involved in trying to get his closed down) .... etc.

Obviously the wet markets will be operational again, the question is are the 'exotic' animals that the Govt,. has now banned, on sale? Without the wet markets where are millions of people to buy standard fare meats (chicken, beef, pork, fish)? There are thousands of these around China and most villages/towns will have one as buying from supermarkets is very expensive for people earning far far less per year than the average person in the UK makes per week. It's would be like everyone on this forum now being forced to buy from Fortnum & Mason or Harrods food dept.

More control over the wet markets is what is required and it will take time to implement the stringent measures the Govt. announced.
 
dantes said:
There seem to be a long list of potential side effects:
  • Blistering, peeling, loosening of the skin
  • blurred vision or other vision changes
  • chest discomfort, pain, or tightness
  • cough or hoarseness
  • dark urine
  • decreased urination
  • defective color vision
  • diarrhea
  • difficulty breathing
  • difficulty seeing at night
  • dizziness or fainting
  • fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat
  • feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
  • feeling that others can hear your thoughts
  • feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
  • fever with or without chills
  • general feeling of tiredness or weakness
  • headache
  • inability to move the eyes
  • increased blinking or spasms of the eyelid
  • joint or muscle pain
  • large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
  • loss of hearing
  • lower back or side pain
  • noisy breathing
  • painful or difficult urination
  • red irritated eyes
  • red skin lesions, often with a purple center
  • severe mood or mental changes
  • sore throat sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
  • sticking out of the tongue
  • stomach pain
  • swelling of the feet or lower legs
  • swollen or painful glands
  • trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing
  • uncontrolled twisting movements of the neck, trunk, arms, or legs
  • unusual behavior
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
  • unusual facial expressions
  • unusual tiredness or weakness
  • yellow eyes or skin
  • Continuing ringing or buzzing or other unexplained noise in the ears
  • feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
  • irritability
  • nausea
  • nervousness
  • nightmares
  • sensation of spinning
  • shakiness and unsteady walk
  • uncontrolled eye movements
  • unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
  • vomiting
Click to expand...

"Sticking out of tongue" Whaaaaaaaat?

That list of side-effects seems to be a very clear warning that taking this drug is incredibly dangerous, and while it might cure something, it will make everything else go fucking wrong.
 
Hyena said:
TBH , wet markets in China are not the big problem.

All over Asia, (and probably other parts of the world) there are 'wet markets' wilder than those found in Wuhan. I always make it a point to take a visit when I'm on holiday (holding my breath at times). There may not be exotic wildlife but there is almost always a variety of live animals being sold and slaughtered, alongside fresh produce and butchered meat.

These are not 'wet markets'. They are often the only markets that these people have. Unlike Wuhan (which had much less of an excuse, being a very wealthy city), there is little likelihood of these going away because:
(1) these places are too poor to afford hygienic storage facilities or refrigeration. If the vendors slaughtered the meat before bringing it to the market, it would be bad by the time it was sold
(2) there are no large industrialized pig farms, and no central slaughter facilities, and the local government is too poor to build one, or enforce public health laws.
(3) there is little education in rural areas, so the populace is not going to understand why the government is stopping their livelihood.


Hygiene and public health, unfortunately, is a luxury that comes with wealth and industrialization. Yes, it is indeed a time bomb waiting to explode.
Click to expand...
Stop talking sense. You need to get with the program (agenda/rhetoric).
 
manwithnoname said:
"Sticking out of tongue" Whaaaaaaaat?

That list of side-effects seems to be a very clear warning that taking this drug is incredibly dangerous, and while it might cure something, it will make everything else go fucking wrong.
Click to expand...

To be fair, almost all drug monographs have a frightening list of side effects. But HCQ is a serious drug to be sure.

It is a very effective treatment for a select few conditions but requires monitoring, isnt tolerated by everyone, and currently has insufficient evidence for widespread use in COVID-19.
 
darkstarexodus said:
Still no good clinical evidence on HCQ. Appears to have in vitro antiviral effect. The French clinical study was so poorly conducted I might as well have done it. All we have now for evidence is hypothesis generations - enough tidbits to suggest more investigation needs to be done. And it is.

But as of right now there isnt anything there for widespread deployment. Yes, it will likely get used in some life or death cases. Yes, further studies may in fact demonstrate benefit. Yes, a month from now might look back at this post and shrug. But not right now.

It is a rather toxic drug and is being proposed for combination use with an antibiotic that, when used together, is potentially deadly.

At this point it is not appropriate for blanket use, completely fucking stupid to stockpile or use it for prophylaxis, and Trump should be impeached again for his irresponsible tweets on the subject.

And people with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis are rightfully freaking out because they depend on this drug and their supply is disappearing fast fast fast.
Click to expand...
wpid-house-its-not-lupus-its-never-lupus.jpg
 
Oh fuck, Frog Xi Ping, the Chinese Communist Propaganda Puppet is back.

I see he's moved on from banging on about swine flu being "much worse" after getting told to fuck off by everyone.
Then he moved onto yummy pangolins and not bats being responsible for Chinese Devil Virus, actually (like that's OK then).

Now it's wet markets and how they're actually not that bad really, and actually probably Vietnamese!
 
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