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Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

I'm 33. I'm healthy, active, young etc. As of April 1st 2021 (that's the date for figures I have), 86,308 people have died in the UK within 28 days of a positive test (not necessarily FROM covid)

Of those 86,308, 3,542 had no underlying health conditions. Of those 3,542, just 689 were under the age of 60. Just 79 were in my age bracket of 20-39. And again, that's within 28 days of a positive test. Not necessarily FROM covid.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm not saying it isn't serious. I'm not saying it isn't killing people. I'm just highly sceptical and cynical and wary of the reaction it's getting. I'm wary of practically being ostracized from society, and subject to increasingly Orwellian policy, unless I get vaccinated for an illness with a 99.8% survival rate. That figure gets even higher when you consider the information within my demographic.

Then you see these reports of 56% of covid hospitalisations originally being admitted for other ailments and catching the virus when under care. You see how a select number of wealthy businessmen have gotten richer. You see some of the policies that are already being snuck in under the table off the back of this. You see government officials handing deals to their mates.

I'm not even gonna go into the vaccine itself because I believe it's most likely safe. I'm almost certain it is. But when you see the money it's worth to these pharmaceutical companies, and you consider the nature of capitalism and profit, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it might be in their best interests to create a steady consistent market off the back of producing vaccines. It's like how they've demonised psychedelics for generations, despite growing evidence now to their benefits. It's like how arms companies profit from war. Rich, powerful people are often capable of terrible things.

If being wary and suspicious and asking questions makes me a covid denier or an anti-vaxxer then it's all already lost.
 
A story that I think @Woland shared last year has always stuck in my mind. Forgive me because I'll most likely butcher it, and please correct me if and where I'm wrong. He offered to create thousands of items of PPE using his 3D printer, all for free last year. I think he wrote to his local MP and was either ignored or shut down. These are the people we're dealing with. It's not insane to suggest they have selfish, sinister objectives to capitalise on off the back of this. They've seen this disaster and looked to find a way to profit. It's why we're still stuck in this mess.
 
In Jaguar, we were told we had to wear the face masks that were supplied to the company. We would be disciplined for wearing our own. People across several levels are using this pandemic to make money.
 
I'm with Hal on this, and again yup it's real. I was super concerned for my elderly parents early on literally didn't move from the house and argued with my parents constantly about not going out to the shops etc... my dad rightly told me to shut it... etc etc I could do on. I pushed both to have their jabs which they've had now.

Recently the govt again extended the contract for the innova LFT from China (to be clear, before I get accused of being a racist and hating on the Chinese again.. It's an American owned company that makes it's products in China). The ridiculously mental cost of that alone is bonkers for something that isn't super accurate (Just the cost of shipping is astronomical). The UK has the companies the tech to make our own, but for some reason we're paying billions just to ship them over here. it makes zero sense.

On top of that you have Gove, Patel, Raab and Hancocks mates all pivoting quickly and then profiting from this after lobbying from those MPs.
It's horrendous and we'll be paying for this for a good 50/60 years if not longer.
 
and to top it off, I came here to mention how the Beeb is doing a decent job of pushing articles with a similar message of
person denies covid and then gets it and dies..
or
person is anti-vaxx or says the vaccine is bad.. they get rona and die.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57984561
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-57921768
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57643577
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57958358

I suppose the story is there but it just doesn't really feel right to me.
 
I'm 33. I'm healthy, active, young etc. As of April 1st 2021 (that's the date for figures I have), 86,308 people have died in the UK within 28 days of a positive test (not necessarily FROM covid)

Of those 86,308, 3,542 had no underlying health conditions. Of those 3,542, just 689 were under the age of 60. Just 79 were in my age bracket of 20-39. And again, that's within 28 days of a positive test. Not necessarily FROM covid.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm not saying it isn't serious. I'm not saying it isn't killing people. I'm just highly sceptical and cynical and wary of the reaction it's getting. I'm wary of practically being ostracized from society, and subject to increasingly Orwellian policy, unless I get vaccinated for an illness with a 99.8% survival rate. That figure gets even higher when you consider the information within my demographic.
...
That's all very well but that's all about you, whereas the reality of Covid vaccination isn't particularly about the individual (though clearly there are benefits: lower chance of catching it and if you do then it reduces the chance of dying from it to a miniscule percentage) but about reducing the chance of onward transmission, especially to the vulnerable whose chances of survival aren't comparable to yours.
 
That's all very well but that's all about you, whereas the reality of Covid vaccination isn't particularly about the individual (though clearly there are benefits: lower chance of catching it and if you do then it reduces the chance of dying from it to a miniscule percentage) but about reducing the chance of onward transmission, especially to the vulnerable whose chances of survival aren't comparable to yours.

The virus has to get through five or six young people before it gets to the old vulnerable person. Imagine you are old, you had your jabs. Do you prefer the virus to have arrived in your throat via several jabbed people or several unjabbed people? Which is it?
 
The virus has to get through five or six young people before it gets to the old vulnerable person. Imagine you are old, you had your jabs. Do you prefer the virus to have arrived in your throat via several jabbed people or several unjabbed people? Which is it?

Are you suggesting that sucking off young people and swallowing is your preferred way of catching the virus?

Just in case there is another watch list you need to go on?
 
Are you suggesting that sucking off young people and swallowing is your preferred way of catching the virus?

Just in case there is another watch list you need to go on?

Douche. I am merely demonstrating that epidemiologists have frothed at the mouth telling everyone to get vaccinated, the woke people who think it's a virtue to "follow the science" are duly signalling the same like frothing sheep, yet their entire virtue signal collapses with the posing of a very simple question. Which is it?
 
Douche. I am merely demonstrating that epidemiologists have frothed at the mouth telling everyone to get vaccinated, the woke people who think it's a virtue to "follow the science" are duly signalling the same like frothing sheep, yet their entire virtue signal collapses with the posing of a very simple question. Which is it?

Froth in the mouth you say????
 
That's all very well but that's all about you, whereas the reality of Covid vaccination isn't particularly about the individual (though clearly there are benefits: lower chance of catching it and if you do then it reduces the chance of dying from it to a miniscule percentage) but about reducing the chance of onward transmission, especially to the vulnerable whose chances of survival aren't comparable to yours.

Yeah, and that's the only thing that makes me even slightly consider wavering on my stance.

However, we're not forced to get the flu jab which can be just as devastating to the old and vulnerable on a bad year. It's the principle I don't agree with. It's the start of a slippery slope. They're trying to guilt and shame people into taking this vaccine under the guise of helping your fellow citizens etc. This government does not care one bit about its vulnerable. They wouldn't even feed starving schoolkids. So why are they so desperate to get people to take the vaccine unless they stand to benefit in some way?
 
If being wary and suspicious and asking questions makes me a covid denier or an anti-vaxxer then it's all already lost.

The questions and issues you have seem to be more about general corruption and cronyism than Covid itself.

The main reason we've had it so bad in England - putting stupidity and incompetence aside - is because the Tories have been so reluctant to lock down and impinge on "rights" and "freedoms". Of course, that hasn't stopped them and their mates from making a fuckload of money but that's nothing new - it's just now they seem comfortable doing it in broad daylight.
 
I'm 33. I'm healthy, active, young etc. As of April 1st 2021 (that's the date for figures I have), 86,308 people have died in the UK within 28 days of a positive test (not necessarily FROM covid)

Of those 86,308, 3,542 had no underlying health conditions. Of those 3,542, just 689 were under the age of 60. Just 79 were in my age bracket of 20-39. And again, that's within 28 days of a positive test. Not necessarily FROM covid.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm not saying it isn't serious. I'm not saying it isn't killing people. I'm just highly sceptical and cynical and wary of the reaction it's getting. I'm wary of practically being ostracized from society, and subject to increasingly Orwellian policy, unless I get vaccinated for an illness with a 99.8% survival rate. That figure gets even higher when you consider the information within my demographic.

Then you see these reports of 56% of covid hospitalisations originally being admitted for other ailments and catching the virus when under care. You see how a select number of wealthy businessmen have gotten richer. You see some of the policies that are already being snuck in under the table off the back of this. You see government officials handing deals to their mates.

I'm not even gonna go into the vaccine itself because I believe it's most likely safe. I'm almost certain it is. But when you see the money it's worth to these pharmaceutical companies, and you consider the nature of capitalism and profit, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it might be in their best interests to create a steady consistent market off the back of producing vaccines. It's like how they've demonised psychedelics for generations, despite growing evidence now to their benefits. It's like how arms companies profit from war. Rich, powerful people are often capable of terrible things.

If being wary and suspicious and asking questions makes me a covid denier or an anti-vaxxer then it's all already lost.

I fully understand you, and I'm with you.
I'm 40 years old, active etc.
I wear a mask all the time, though I'm pretty sure - based on Fauci and others - that it does little good.
I had the vaccination because in the world I was living in, adults were transmitting the virus and dying because of it.
I thought it was the responsible thing to do.
Currently, the delta variant is being transmitted but the hospitalization & death rates are minimal.
There is little to no impact on children again. They are strong enough to overcome this virus.
I'm very very torn if I should be giving my 12 year old son a vaccination, that he seemingly doesn't need.
Yet, the govt is about to impose 'sanctions' that will limit his ability to move around if he doesn't ... I don't get it.
On the radio today, a top doctor here was openly questioning why the booster is necessary - is he a COVID denier? or anti-vaxxer? He doesn't see the necessity yet.
I feel nowadays - most discussions are about "Yes" vs "No", or "good guys" and "bad guys".
I feel a healthy society should allow these discussions, especially when they're coming from a non-political sphere and one which is desperate to make the right decisions for his children.
 
Yeah, and that's the only thing that makes me even slightly consider wavering on my stance.

However, we're not forced to get the flu jab which can be just as devastating to the old and vulnerable on a bad year. It's the principle I don't agree with. It's the start of a slippery slope. They're trying to guilt and shame people into taking this vaccine under the guise of helping your fellow citizens etc. This government does not care one bit about its vulnerable. They wouldn't even feed starving schoolkids. So why are they so desperate to get people to take the vaccine unless they stand to benefit in some way?

I don't think so.

I agree with Froggy's main point - everything you have said boils down to 'the reaction is overstated against my own personal risk'. Unfortunately public policy isn't about whether a healthy young guy is going to survive but about protecting a whole population and the risk to certain groups (older, diabetic, certain backgrounds) is so high that an overall sacrifice is required. It has clearly past the threshold you are happy to take, which is understandable, but that doesn't mean that covid isn't still a disaster for a lot of people.

You are also presenting numbers as 'it isn't so bad' without acknowledging the actions that have been taken to keep that number (which is sky high) as low as possible.

Yes - lots of companies are profiting from it. There are huge challenges with insurance and liability. In your example about company provided masks - i bet that is an insurance reason should someone catch covid and die at your place of work, rather than some sweet deal to wear a certain brand of PPE.
 
Ok, (a) if you have a room full of 10 people, 1 infected person has a 100% chance of transmitting the virus, or (b) a room of 10 people where the 1 infected person has a 50% chance of transmitting the virus thanks to the jab.

There is zero difference, room (a) will be fully infected in a week, room (b) will be fully infected in a week and a few days depending on the incubation time. It seems people frothing about vaccines are misinterpreting the reduced transmission as leading to reduced infection numbers and therefore reduced deaths. This is absolutely wrong. All it does is reduce the rate of infection, which is a losing battle anyway with an exponential process, the room is already fucked from the start, you need to get real about that. Then you should be focussed on what will minimise the number of deaths in the room instead. Alas you're all too far gone to do anything but froth at the mouth about getting everyone jabbed because Fauci said so.
 
The sacrifice that needs to be made is in the 30-40 age bracket, who should probably be denied the vaccine, even though it will help them to have it, but they should be left to their own devices. Anyone younger should be happy to not be getting vaccinated by their own choice given the risks. So that way the main incubating part of the population isn't turned into a training ground for the virus to learn how to beat the hell out of an already weakening vaccine. A few 30-somethings will die, but that's the way it is.
 
Ok, (a) if you have a room full of 10 people, 1 infected person has a 100% chance of transmitting the virus, or (b) a room of 10 people where the 1 infected person has a 50% chance of transmitting the virus thanks to the jab.

There is zero difference, room (a) will be fully infected in a week, room (b) will be fully infected in a week and a few days depending on the incubation time. It seems people frothing about vaccines are misinterpreting the reduced transmission as leading to reduced infection numbers and therefore reduced deaths. This is absolutely wrong. All it does is reduce the rate of infection, which is a losing battle anyway with an exponential process, the room is already fucked from the start, you need to get real about that. Then you should be focussed on what will minimise the number of deaths in the room instead. Alas you're all too far gone to do anything but froth at the mouth about getting everyone jabbed because Fauci said so.

I doubt anyone in this forum is listening to Fauci - you seem very deep in US politics and US politics only.

The problem we are entering now is that with a partially vaxxed population and restrictions lifted, we now have the perfect petri dish for the virus to mutate and find new forms that bypass the existing vax and largely render it useless for actual infection rate, but continue to be effective at reducing the strength of the virus in those infected.

I think we made one big error that has led to us being where we are - not closing borders or imposing quarantines on travellers. If we'd done this sooner, domestic restrictions would have been lifted much sooner.

My view is that health policy needs to be weighed up against economic policy to find the best middle ground. I am not in favour of perpetual lockdowns, I am in favour of mandatory vax and I am in favour of trying to avoid fucking up generations of young adults who are spending their most important development years locked inside living their lives via social media and not in person.
 
I fully understand you, and I'm with you.
I'm 40 years old, active etc.
I wear a mask all the time, though I'm pretty sure - based on Fauci and others - that it does little good.
I had the vaccination because in the world I was living in, adults were transmitting the virus and dying because of it.
I thought it was the responsible thing to do.
Currently, the delta variant is being transmitted but the hospitalization & death rates are minimal.
There is little to no impact on children again. They are strong enough to overcome this virus.
I'm very very torn if I should be giving my 12 year old son a vaccination, that he seemingly doesn't need.
Yet, the govt is about to impose 'sanctions' that will limit his ability to move around if he doesn't ... I don't get it.
On the radio today, a top doctor here was openly questioning why the booster is necessary - is he a COVID denier? or anti-vaxxer? He doesn't see the necessity yet.
I feel nowadays - most discussions are about "Yes" vs "No", or "good guys" and "bad guys".
I feel a healthy society should allow these discussions, especially when they're coming from a non-political sphere and one which is desperate to make the right decisions for his children.

The whole thing has been politicized now. There's no room for debate or nuance or discussion. "Get the jab or you're a selfish granny killer." There's no way I want to inject myself with an experimental vaccine that in all likelihood I won't even need. Injecting my 4 year old with it? Forget it.

Merriem-Webster dictionary has changed the definition of anti-vaxxer. It used to mean anyone that is against any sort of vaccine. Now it says this:

a person who opposes [bcolor=rgb(253, 251, 248)]vaccination[/bcolor] or laws that mandate vaccination

So being sceptical about laws enforcing vaccination now lumps you in with all the nutjobs. It's scary what's going on and there's a concerted effort to delegitimise anyone looking for balanced discussion or voicing concerns.
 
Mandatory vaccinations is extremely dangerous. Especially when they haven't been tested or approved through the proper channels over the requisite amount of time. It gets even shadier when you consider that a tiny proportion of people are the ones dying WITH the disease.

But yeah, a middle ground needs to be found. I have no problem with people who want the vaccine going out and getting it. They've made a judgement call. But it should also be my right to be wary and cautious of experimental treatment that I and my son don't need without being ostracized from society.
 
If businesses can be fully open with significantly reduced risks by having only vaccinated customers, then there is a huge economic upside to allowing businesses (e.g. restaurants, theatres, cinemas, bars etc) to do that. Those who don't want to get vaccinated can continue to stay at home and live within certain boundaries that mean their choices don't put others at increased risk.
 
I've been super cautious throughout the whole Covid thing (at the extreme end many would say I'm sure) and we've both had the vaccine.

I'm not in favour of vaccinating kids.
 
If businesses can be fully open with significantly reduced risks by having only vaccinated customers, then there is a huge economic upside to allowing businesses (e.g. restaurants, theatres, cinemas, bars etc) to do that. Those who don't want to get vaccinated can continue to stay at home and live within certain boundaries that mean their choices don't put others at increased risk.

Getting the vaccine will put me and my son at an increased risk.
 
I've been super cautious throughout the whole Covid thing (at the extreme end many would say I'm sure) and we've both had the vaccine.

I'm not in favour of vaccinating kids.

I fully understand this view and have no problem with it.
 
I don't get how a society can give a child a vaccine that is more dangerous to them than the disease in order that they may save older people. Who made this decision? It's not anti vax to ask these questions.

If the vaccine prevented them from spreading the infection and protected me from catching the infection, in those circumstances I'd vaccinate them all regardless of the risk, fuck them, the army should be deployed and ensure complete compliance. Unfortunately, that's not what the vaccine is.
 
I dunno about kids getting vaccinated either.

I'm flying home on Friday and I'm a bit nervous about catching it on the plane or in the airports and then giving it to one of my parents. I'm going myself as I didn't want to risk bringing the kids over and them giving it to one of my folks.

I don't like flying at the best of times and this is stressing me just thinking about it.
 
I dunno about kids getting vaccinated either.

I'm flying home on Friday and I'm a bit nervous about catching it on the plane or in the airports and then giving it to one of my parents. I'm going myself as I didn't want to risk bringing the kids over and them giving it to one of my folks.

I don't like flying at the best of times and this is stressing me just thinking about it.

Don’t worry mate.. even COVID tries to avoid gingers.
 
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