Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[dantes]

Many people on here have picked apart Trump's total ineptitude from Day 1, reprising that timeline yet again, as has been done many times in this thread, isn't going to change your mind on anything. You're just waffling on as a smokescreen to cover your ass.

Denying a chain of cause and effect (initiated by Trump) and stating that it isn't possible to conclude an actual number (duh) doesn't negate the fact that Trump is ultimately responsible for many avoidable deaths.

Read again, I didn't deny that. I said you are incapable of identifying the components of that chain, and therefore it isn't possible for you to conclude any number.

 

[Frogfish]

Read again, I didn't deny that. I said you are incapable of identifying the components of that chain, and therefore it isn't possible for you to conclude any number.

Based on your history in this whole thread it's pretty clear you are one incapable of logical assessment.

 

[dantes]

Based on your history in this whole thread it's pretty clear you are one incapable of logical assessment.

I'm not talking about logical assessment, and I didn't say you're not capable of logical assessment. Again because of your feelings you've told yourself, oh it must be logical assessment, that's it, I can of course do that, dantes is wrong as usual, just trying to cover his arse or something, all is right in the world.

You're not capable of accurately predicting the behaviour of a complex system, which is a limitation of almost all people in world. You used to get around that limitation by assessing the predictions of those people in the world who can predict complex systems. You could call that logical assessment. You are capable of it. But you no longer use that capability because of your feelings. For example with the blood clots, instead of logically assessing what I told you about conditional probabilities you instead want to get one over an apparent anti-vaxxer and signal your virtue about it all, then duly go find a laughable alternative prediction from a far worse mathematician and waved that in my face like some woke fool. This level of stupidity is something new and shockingly widespread.

 

[StevieM]

At what point does Dantes increasing referencing of “being woke” and “virtue signalling” become examples of an individual virtue signalling and being woke.

It is the nature of things to become that which we strive not to become.

And so it is for Dantes.

You love to see it.

 

[Frogfish]

I'm not talking about logical assessment, and I didn't say you're not capable of logical assessment. Again because of your feelings you've told yourself, oh it must be logical assessment, that's it, I can of course do that, dantes is wrong as usual, just trying to cover his arse or something, all is right in the world.

You're not capable of accurately predicting the behaviour of a complex system, which is a limitation of almost all people in world. You used to get around that limitation by assessing the predictions of those people in the world who can predict complex systems. You could call that logical assessment. You are capable of it. But you no longer use that capability because of your feelings. For example with the blood clots, instead of logically assessing what I told you about conditional probabilities you instead want to get one over an apparent anti-vaxxer and signal your virtue about it all, then duly go find a laughable alternative prediction from a far worse mathematician and waved that in my face like some woke fool. This level of stupidity is something new and shockingly widespread.

An interesting thesis however, as with most things `Dantes', sadly woefully inaccurate. Though of course it is your typical 'sleight of hand' straw man argument intended to distract us from your risible Trump assertions that turned out to be, who ever would have thought, wrong by several levels of magnitude.

As for the vaccine ascertion, haven't the faintest what you are bleating on about, and probably neither do you, so how's about a quote then ?

 

[dantes]

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...suggests-no-specific-issue-batch-used-austria

I like how if you die of anything immediately post Covid it's a Covid death , but if you die immediately post vaccine it's definitely not the vaccine

If memory serves, a doctor died of the same thing in the US after his vaccination. Can't be helped when you are forced to roll out a vaccine before doing the usual amount of research.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html

Sigh. If you know anything about thrombosis it's that it's far more common than realised, in many forms.

Quote from the CDC :
The precise number of people affected by DVT/PE is unknown, although as many as 900,000 people could be affected (1 to 2 per 1,000) each year in the United States. Estimates suggest that 60,000-100,000 Americans die of DVT/PE per annum.

So it's very likely it's coincidental. Though there is still the very low possibility that it was caused by the vaccine as all of them cause a slight increase in blood viscosity.

This is the same reason that some labs in Europe (for clarification without any proof of actual causality, as they have admitted - they say they are erring on the side of caution (even though the actual EMA have disregarded the deaths as statistically irrelevant), this whilst the death rate if you actually contract Covid being much higher) are unsure that recent thrombosis deaths are caused by increased viscosity from taking the vaccine or by natural incidence.

You're perfectly free to believe in coincidences, mathematics is also perfectly free to laugh at your attempt to conclude anything about the statistical significance or frequency of an outlier event based on a bell curve. Only really bad investors and clueless clinical researchers think otherwise. If you happen to know any top top investors they'll set you straight.

And only conspiracy theorists seem to have your view of the world. At least you have competition in that regard on this forum.

Here's the maths for you (USA): 1 in 4,000 per annum die of DVT/PE in an average year. 1 in 33 million has so far been suspected (claimed) to have died from a thrombosis caused by a CV19 vaccine.

According to your 'maths', when you extrapolate to the end of the year the vaccine drastically reduces the mortality rate!!. It's a cure! By golly you're on to something, we should give everyone who suffers from clots the vaccine which measurably increases viscosity, but numbers don't lie! In spite of the physically increased viscosity the vaccine will statistically reduce the viscosity too. Magic. Must be some quantum mechanical effect at play.

Dantes fucked up by his own logic - yet again. You should have stuck with Trump. Oh you did !

Wow, nevermind.

Administration of the Astrazeneca vaccine has been temporarily suspended by the HSE on advice from the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC) this morning.

This comes following NIAC receiving “new information” from the Norwegian Medicines Agency yesterday of four reports of “serious blood clotting events in adults after vaccination with Covid-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca”.

In a statement from Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Ronan Glynn, he confirms the decision was taken in light of this new evidence and following discussions with the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA).

I'm sure those are just four more coincidences.

[article]
Oxford/AstraZeneca jab could have causal link to rare blood clots, say UK experts
Prof Saad Shakir, the director of the drug safety research unit (DSRU) at Southampton University, said on Tuesday that the evidence accumulated in Europe and the UK of links between the vaccine and the rare blood clots “is consistent with causality”. While the dangers of coronavirus were so great that vaccination must not stop, he said, measures should be put in place to reduce any extra risk to women under the age of 55, who seemed to be most affected. The DRSU has shared its analysis with the regulators. The DSRU at Southampton University looked at cases of thrombosis (blood clotting inside the arteries) linked to thrombocytopenia (a reduction in blood platelets that usually causes bleeding but in rare cases results in clotting) and concluded that they were linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ausal-link-to-rare-blood-clots-say-uk-experts
[/article]

Another day another dantes was right after all shocker.

Another day Dantes jumps on anything from the media that he thinks validates him (even though it doesn't at all), witness the whole Trump failed election farce where Dantes was consistently destroyed.

Obviously Dantes is jumping on this type of lead (even though other EMA offices in Germany & France have stated they don't have actual evidence, the link to that is even in Dantes' own link haha !) : The EMA (Italy, and the UK link above) has repeatedly said the benefits of the AstraZeneca shot outweigh the risks as it investigates 44 reports of an extremely rare brain clotting ailment known as cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) out of 9.2 million people in the European Economic Area who have received the vaccine.

Read the small print not the sensationalist media hype : supposition but actually zero substantiated data (since causality cannot be proven) and also statistically it still falls within the parameters of the normal rate of embolisms (so again for clarity - 44 cases - not deaths - from 9.2 million inoculations within the EU, this is far below that of say serious side effects from the Flu vaccine BTW). Come back when you have real data.

EMA Statement
Europe’s drug regulator has denied it has already established a causal connection between the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine and a rare blood clotting syndrome, after a senior official from the agency (in Itlay) said there was a link.

As if you could ever lecture me about how to analyse data. Your understanding of probability distributions is nowhere near to being good enough for that. Speaking of the election, when that lawyer came up with the one in a quadrillion statistical chance of the election being fair, you had no problem dismissing that, and you had no problem listening to me explain why the expert witness was a moron. There was I thinking you'd learn something useful about probability distributions. Really, you just wanted some confirmation bias.

Listen carefully. The reason that witness was an idiot, is exactly the same reason people that say the embolisms are within normal parameters are idiots. It's the exact same stupid misapplication of an incorrect probability distribution in both cases. You agreed with it for the lawyer. You don't agree with it here because you're not interested in mathematics, only want that sweet confirmation bias from the fake news. Good luck with being stupid.

44 in 9.2 million. Take that in and apply statistical norms you moron.

Statistical norm? That's not even a thing. And now you're pretending that we're arguing about the death rate, either because you have no idea what I wrote or you just genuinely think I can't do basic arithmetic and you need to educate me on that? Amazing.

The problem is not the death rate, it is that the vaccine caused blood clots. Normal people who weren't blathering on about "trust the science!!" "conspiracy theory!!" like a brainless robot could all see this for themselves because their brains intuitively understand conditional probability. The scientists using bad statistical models to deny "nothing to see here!!!" was pure stupidity, because now they have been forced to admit "oh new data emerged and now there is some risk". New data my fucking balls. They have lost credibility with normal people and given ammo to the abnormal people against all science. So that will now lead to more people refusing the vaccine, and more people dying. And I can't blame them. This is what happens when you don't do the maths properly and think your job as a scientist is to virtue signal pure bullshit as in your post above.

 

[dantes]

At what point does Dantes increasing referencing of “being woke” and “virtue signalling” become examples of an individual virtue signalling and being woke.

It is the nature of things to become that which we strive not to become.

And so it is for Dantes.

You love to see it.

You'll have to just be content to see it in your dreams alongside all the other figments of your imagination.

 

[Athens]

Does Dantes actually expect any of us to read that?

 

[dantes]

No, but perhaps I should have expected you to be stupid enough to not realise that it is not meant for you to read.

 

[The Nomad]

Does Dantes actually expect any of us to read that?

He was just recalibrating for the updated Dantes. Its part of the process. Normal service will be resumed momentarily.

 

[StevieM]

I think what Dantes is trying to say, is that it’s all Trump’s fault for fast-tracking vaccines without proper scientific testing.

 

[dantes]

This the part where I defend Trump and then you say something in reply? Got it.

 

[StevieM]

This the part where I defend Trump and then you say something in reply? Got it.

No.

It’s the part where I harvest lots of likes for mocking you.

Its what keeps us all going through these dark times.

 

[rubans]

No, but perhaps I should have expected you to be stupid enough to not realise that it is not meant for you to read.

Way too many double negatives in that sentance at this time of night.

 

[Hyena]

This is the most apocalyptic time I have ever seen in my life.

In the last 10 days, my life has been just making phone calls trying to help colleagues, family and friends in getting a hospital bed, an oxygen cylinder or drugs, most of which are unavailable. It is literally impossible to find a hospital bed in the capital city at the moment. Literally every single hospital has an oxygen supply crisis, with a few hours of oxygen left. Industrial oxygen is now being diverted, so I'm hoping that at least this crisis abates in the coming week.

In the last week, I've seen two acquaintances my age die. My girlfriend's family has Covid. More than half of my colleagues have it. My uncle and aunt have it. One of my colleague's mum is presently in the ICU. My mum (thankfully not in Delhi) showed some symptoms but has now tested negative.

We're now reporting over 25k cases a day in Delhi and over 300 deaths a day. I don't know how much longer this shit can last. Grim grim times.

Please take care friends.

It's horrible what is happening in India.

We chat a lot of shit about policies, science, and maths here but it is really meaningless to those who are in this predicament through no fault of their own

 

[Frogfish]

@dantes Hahahaha ! What a rib-tickler watching you waste your time researching that ! You're as bad as Rosco - common link perhaps. You're remarkably easy to manipulate.

Anyway for two reasons :
a) that was my intent because I knew you couldn't resist and ...
b) you have once again highlighted my point, that thrombosis is a very common cause of death (not that those suffering a thrombosis after taking the vaccine are all dying, far from it). There are many more common drugs on the market have far far higher rates of thrombosis and are yet widely accepted (I'll let you have fun researching that one too).

-------
The following is a copy/paste that took me all of 2 mins whilst still laughing at Dantes whilst having a fresh brewed coffee.

Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) is a very rare type of blood clot, occurring at a rate of 2–15 cases per million people per year. It is most common in women aged 18-34 (26.4 per million). Recently, CVST has gotten a bit of attention, due to the rare occurrences of CVST associated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J) vaccines.
Currently, 6 cases of CVST have been reported after the more than 6.8 million J&J vaccines administered in the US; a rate of 0.87 per million people. These 6 cases are unique because they occurred with low platelets, (thrombocytopenia). This distinction matters because this type of CVST must be treated differently, due to the low platelets. However, this is a treatable condition.
The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine has been associated with a similar type of CVST at a rate of about 4 per million vaccinations, which is why that vaccine has recently undergone regulatory review in Europe.
While these cases are not to be taken lightly, the recent pause in vaccinations have underscored the robustness of our surveillance systems in detecting extremely rare events.
In contrast, CVST of any type occurs much more frequently in COVID-19 cases; a rate of 40–200 per million cases. This is 100X more frequent than baseline incidence in the general population and 50X more frequent than the incidence we are currently seeing in individuals having received the J&J vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/vac.../acip/meetings/slides-2021-04.html
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides-2021-04/01-COVID-Bell-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../02-COVID-Janssen-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slid.../03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides-2021-04/04-COVID-Lee-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../05-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/index.html
https://www.fda.gov/.../joint-cdc-and-fda-statement... https://www.ema.europa.eu/.../covid-19-vaccine...

 

[Frogfish]

I think what Dantes is trying to say, is that it’s all Trump’s fault for fast-tracking vaccines without proper scientific testing.

Especially the bleach.

 

[dantes]

@dantes Hahahaha ! What a rib-tickler watching you waste your time researching that ! You're as bad as Rosco - common link perhaps. You're remarkably easy to manipulate.

Anyway for two reasons :
a) that was my intent because I knew you couldn't resist and ...
b) you have once again highlighted my point, that thrombosis is a very common cause of death (not that those suffering a thrombosis after taking the vaccine are all dying, far from it). There are many more common drugs on the market have far far higher rates of thrombosis and are yet widely accepted (I'll let you have fun researching that one too).

-------
The following is a copy/paste that took me all of 2 mins whilst still laughing at Dantes whilst having a fresh brewed coffee.

Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) is a very rare type of blood clot, occurring at a rate of 2–15 cases per million people per year. It is most common in women aged 18-34 (26.4 per million). Recently, CVST has gotten a bit of attention, due to the rare occurrences of CVST associated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J) vaccines.
Currently, 6 cases of CVST have been reported after the more than 6.8 million J&J vaccines administered in the US; a rate of 0.87 per million people. These 6 cases are unique because they occurred with low platelets, (thrombocytopenia). This distinction matters because this type of CVST must be treated differently, due to the low platelets. However, this is a treatable condition.
The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine has been associated with a similar type of CVST at a rate of about 4 per million vaccinations, which is why that vaccine has recently undergone regulatory review in Europe.
While these cases are not to be taken lightly, the recent pause in vaccinations have underscored the robustness of our surveillance systems in detecting extremely rare events.
In contrast, CVST of any type occurs much more frequently in COVID-19 cases; a rate of 40–200 per million cases. This is 100X more frequent than baseline incidence in the general population and 50X more frequent than the incidence we are currently seeing in individuals having received the J&J vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/vac.../acip/meetings/slides-2021-04.html
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides-2021-04/01-COVID-Bell-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../02-COVID-Janssen-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slid.../03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides-2021-04/04-COVID-Lee-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/.../slides.../05-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/index.html
https://www.fda.gov/.../joint-cdc-and-fda-statement... https://www.ema.europa.eu/.../covid-19-vaccine...

Your point was that the deaths were a coincidence. My point was that you were wrong. Then you turned out to be wrong. None these other points matter, I think you're just deflecting from the fact you were wrong similar to you feigning memory loss.

 

[Frogfish]

Your point was that the deaths were a coincidence. My point was that you were wrong. Then you turned out to be wrong. None these other points matter, I think you're just deflecting from the fact you were wrong similar to you feigning memory loss.

Haha you really are a total nincompoop at times. Below is my statement (clearly non-definitive since 'low possibility' does not mean zero) that you literally quoted (and again since it seems that the scientific community claims the majority of naturally occuring blood clots of this type are in young women in the 18-34 range, it's still not known how many can be definitely attributed to the vaccine and how many are naturally occuring, though admittedly it now seems a higher percentage should be vaccine related) and of course taking one of the vaccines is still a far safer course than not taking it, regardless of the risk potential:

So it's very likely it's coincidental. Though there is still the very low possibility that it was caused by the vaccine as all of them cause a slight increase in blood viscosity.

 

[dantes]

The possibility was a shade under 100%. I knew that, and you wouldn't hear it. So now what, you will cope by assuming a very unlikely thing just happened to be true? Got it.

 

[Rosco]

of course taking one of the vaccines is still a far safer course than not taking it, regardless of the risk potential:

This is an incredible statement.

 

[Athens]

Way too many double negatives in that sentance at this time of night.

Almost my exact thoughts, only replace night with morning.

 

[dantes]

boris: fighting for his life after getting infected like an idiot
dantes: the NHS should murder him whilst they have the opportunity, fucking cowards, they will regret saving him, kill him, he needs to die now, ffs
scm: you heartless cunt, pray and clap for boris no matter your views of him, wah wah wah virtue signal etc
today: oh, dantes was right after all shocker

 

[Athens]

I'm not sure many people in here were worried about Boris.

 

[dantes]

I distinctly recall woland wishing him a speedy recovery, which means the rest of you were doing at least that much if not a lot more.

 

[Richey]

I think a few people said that they hoped he felt better soon. I know that I did.

I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly for thinking otherwise, people can think what they like, but I personally tend to draw a line at wishing someone dies.

 

[Woland]

I distinctly recall woland wishing him a speedy recovery, which means the rest of you were doing at least that much if not a lot more.

I think I said I thought I'd want him dead but now he's actually dying I don't want him to. That was over a year ago, and as it turned out the greater good would have been for him to snuff it, accepted. I apologise and promise to kick him into traffic if I ever seeing him riding around on his bike.

 

[The Nomad]

Can we all agree anyone who uses the phrase virtue signal/virtue signalling is a complete and utter cunt?

Just as much as those who label people gammons.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

I think a few people said that they hoped he felt better soon. I know that I did.

I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly for thinking otherwise, people can think what they like, but I personally tend to draw a line at wishing someone dies.

To a certain extent, but I don't think the line counts when it comes to the man who openly wanted to go the herd immunity route last year and is handing billions in state contracts to his mates while not giving nurses a real pay increase.

 

[Richey]

To a certain extent, but I don't think the line counts when it comes to the man who openly wanted to go the herd immunity route last year and is handing billions in state contracts to his mates while not giving nurses a real pay increase.

That may be your view, and as I said, I don't judge anyone too harshly if they have that view, but I still don't wish death on anyone.

For the record, whether he openly wanted to take a herd immunity approach last year is debatable. He said it was a theory, and it IS a theory. Not a very clever one (without a vaccine) but a theory nonetheless. He went onto say that it would be better to take measures to protect the NHS. See here for details as I doubt I've explained it very well:

https://fullfact.org/health/boris-johnson-coronavirus-this-morning/

For the second or third points, I think wishing death on a politician for alleged cronyism or only giving nurses a 1% pay rise is a little extreme. It's probably more of a 'don't vote for them if you feel strongly about it' issue than an assassination issue really.