Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?
- Thread starter manwithnoname
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Yeah maybe it would be tough but I'm assuming it would be a couple of years down the road too. Scotland is quite small but I would imagine their coastline would be good for fishing and for wind energy down the road. Plus they could reignite the old oil argument. Plus I don't think EU leaders would be above accepting Scotland as a childish 'fuck you' to Britain.
Yeah I'd imagine if they wanted out of the UK but want to peg to (or stick with) the pound they'd be told where to go.
BoJo in dreamland. What could go wrong and how many of the lizards mates will get rich from this?
[article]
They call it the “moonshot” – and it is as ambitious as any space adventure.
This is the name given to the government project that aims to ramp up testing to such a scale that it will return the country to some kind of normality. But is it feasible? And what about the cost?
Two internal government documents seen by the Guardian give an indication of the task, and the huge difficulties ahead.
The underlying proposition is simple.
As the documents explain, mass testing of the population on a very frequent basis would allow us all to know who is clear of the virus and allow those people to mix freely again.
The economy and British society as a whole could re-open safely. It would break the chain of transmission. Testing and tracing on this scale would mean the virus would be driven down into such low levels it would be almost eradicated.
One of the documents, titled UK Mass Population Testing Plan, is a briefing memo sent to the first minister in Scotland, which explains it could cost £100bn.
That might be a price worth paying if it worked – however, most of the technology simply does not yet exist. Getting 10 million people tested every day – however quick and simple the process – is a very big logistical ask for a country that has struggled to deliver a few hundred thousand.
The second is a 26-page PowerPoint presentation from the Department of Health and Social Care entitled: Moonshot mobilisation: briefing pack, dated 21 August.
The document is full of diagrams and charts, with pages headlined “Mission Team”, “Moonshot Headquarters” and “Mission Analysis”.
The narrative in both make it clear the prime minister believes the moonshot is the only way out for the UK economy in the face of a probable winter surge. He wants it to be UK-wide.
The documents have been shared with the devolved governments. They have also been to Sage – the government’s scientific advisory committee – and to the Treasury, which is modelling the impact to the British the economy.
And various companies making tests have been sounded out – drawing up much of the plan and leading on various “missions” are employees of Deloitte, the private sector consulting company that has already masterminded the establishment of drive-in testing centres, run by Serco.
The slides show current testing as 200,000 to 800,000 per day, with a rise to 2m to 4m a day in December.
The “future vision” is 10m tests a day in early 2021.
Moonshot is Johnson’s big hope, it makes clear.
“This is described by the prime minister as our only hope for avoiding a second national lockdown before a vaccine, something the country cannot afford. He would also like this to support the opening up of the economy and allow the population to return to something closer to normality,” says the memo.
“This is a top priority for the prime minister who is embedding No 10 staff within the project and has committed to removing any barriers to implementation. He has asked for a Manhattan Project-type approach to delivering the level of innovation/pace required to make this possible. He has also indicated that he would like this to be a cross UK endeavour. The devolved administrations have now been asked at official level whether we wish to embed staff within the moonshot project teams.”
But to some experts, the mission may be seen as more wishful thinking than a feasible way out of the pandemic.
The prime minister has said publicly he wants to move towards mass testing that is as simple as a pregnancy test and delivers a result in 15 minutes.
That technology does not yet exist, but it is a fundamental part of the moonshot package.
The big hope is firstly in saliva tests, which are quick and more comfortable than swab tests for the virus. This part of the plan is under way already.
Saliva tests have been piloted in Southampton, among healthcare workers and their families. The pilot was said to be successful – but no data has been released. It is understood that there were too few infections in the city to prove the tests worked.
That pilot has been extended in Hampshire – the documents suggests it will launch in Manchester as well. Mass screening is taking place in Salford. The same saliva tests are going to be offered to anyone who wants them. It’s both a trial of the saliva test and of people’s enthusiasm for population screening. Testing will take place at train stations and other places yet to be decided, the document says.
The plans suggest that schools, universities and other institutions would follow, while the technology was also to be used to target outbreaks around the country.
The plans feature the initials TBC for much of the detail here – to be confirmed. Finally, private sector organisations would be empowered to deliver testing in workplaces.
Beyond saliva testing, which has not yet been proved to work although it is promising, moonshot depends on a new generation of rapid antigen tests becoming available.
The DHSC has already contracted to buy some of them off the drawing board. It signed a deal with Oxford Nanopore, a young biotech company spun off from Oxford University, for a rapid test that can be turned around in 90 minutes before it had even gained its CE mark.
On 3 August, Hancock announced it was buying “millions of ground-breaking rapid coronavirus tests” from Oxford Nanopore, which features in the moonshot documents, and DnaNudge. They would be “rolled out to hospitals, care homes and labs across the UK to increase testing capacity ahead of winter”, he said.
“We’re using the most innovative technologies available to tackle coronavirus. Millions of new rapid coronavirus tests will provide on the spot results in under 90 minutes, helping us to break chains of transmission quickly,” said Hancock.
The documents do acknowledge that most of those tests are as yet unavailable. They talk of “developing, validating, procuring, and operationalising testing technology that currently does not exist” and “creating significant new logistical and manufacturing infrastructure and capacity”.
[/article]
[article]
They call it the “moonshot” – and it is as ambitious as any space adventure.
This is the name given to the government project that aims to ramp up testing to such a scale that it will return the country to some kind of normality. But is it feasible? And what about the cost?
Two internal government documents seen by the Guardian give an indication of the task, and the huge difficulties ahead.
The underlying proposition is simple.
As the documents explain, mass testing of the population on a very frequent basis would allow us all to know who is clear of the virus and allow those people to mix freely again.
The economy and British society as a whole could re-open safely. It would break the chain of transmission. Testing and tracing on this scale would mean the virus would be driven down into such low levels it would be almost eradicated.
One of the documents, titled UK Mass Population Testing Plan, is a briefing memo sent to the first minister in Scotland, which explains it could cost £100bn.
That might be a price worth paying if it worked – however, most of the technology simply does not yet exist. Getting 10 million people tested every day – however quick and simple the process – is a very big logistical ask for a country that has struggled to deliver a few hundred thousand.
The second is a 26-page PowerPoint presentation from the Department of Health and Social Care entitled: Moonshot mobilisation: briefing pack, dated 21 August.
The document is full of diagrams and charts, with pages headlined “Mission Team”, “Moonshot Headquarters” and “Mission Analysis”.
The narrative in both make it clear the prime minister believes the moonshot is the only way out for the UK economy in the face of a probable winter surge. He wants it to be UK-wide.
The documents have been shared with the devolved governments. They have also been to Sage – the government’s scientific advisory committee – and to the Treasury, which is modelling the impact to the British the economy.
And various companies making tests have been sounded out – drawing up much of the plan and leading on various “missions” are employees of Deloitte, the private sector consulting company that has already masterminded the establishment of drive-in testing centres, run by Serco.
The slides show current testing as 200,000 to 800,000 per day, with a rise to 2m to 4m a day in December.
The “future vision” is 10m tests a day in early 2021.
Moonshot is Johnson’s big hope, it makes clear.
“This is described by the prime minister as our only hope for avoiding a second national lockdown before a vaccine, something the country cannot afford. He would also like this to support the opening up of the economy and allow the population to return to something closer to normality,” says the memo.
“This is a top priority for the prime minister who is embedding No 10 staff within the project and has committed to removing any barriers to implementation. He has asked for a Manhattan Project-type approach to delivering the level of innovation/pace required to make this possible. He has also indicated that he would like this to be a cross UK endeavour. The devolved administrations have now been asked at official level whether we wish to embed staff within the moonshot project teams.”
But to some experts, the mission may be seen as more wishful thinking than a feasible way out of the pandemic.
The prime minister has said publicly he wants to move towards mass testing that is as simple as a pregnancy test and delivers a result in 15 minutes.
That technology does not yet exist, but it is a fundamental part of the moonshot package.
The big hope is firstly in saliva tests, which are quick and more comfortable than swab tests for the virus. This part of the plan is under way already.
Saliva tests have been piloted in Southampton, among healthcare workers and their families. The pilot was said to be successful – but no data has been released. It is understood that there were too few infections in the city to prove the tests worked.
That pilot has been extended in Hampshire – the documents suggests it will launch in Manchester as well. Mass screening is taking place in Salford. The same saliva tests are going to be offered to anyone who wants them. It’s both a trial of the saliva test and of people’s enthusiasm for population screening. Testing will take place at train stations and other places yet to be decided, the document says.
The plans suggest that schools, universities and other institutions would follow, while the technology was also to be used to target outbreaks around the country.
The plans feature the initials TBC for much of the detail here – to be confirmed. Finally, private sector organisations would be empowered to deliver testing in workplaces.
Beyond saliva testing, which has not yet been proved to work although it is promising, moonshot depends on a new generation of rapid antigen tests becoming available.
The DHSC has already contracted to buy some of them off the drawing board. It signed a deal with Oxford Nanopore, a young biotech company spun off from Oxford University, for a rapid test that can be turned around in 90 minutes before it had even gained its CE mark.
On 3 August, Hancock announced it was buying “millions of ground-breaking rapid coronavirus tests” from Oxford Nanopore, which features in the moonshot documents, and DnaNudge. They would be “rolled out to hospitals, care homes and labs across the UK to increase testing capacity ahead of winter”, he said.
“We’re using the most innovative technologies available to tackle coronavirus. Millions of new rapid coronavirus tests will provide on the spot results in under 90 minutes, helping us to break chains of transmission quickly,” said Hancock.
The documents do acknowledge that most of those tests are as yet unavailable. They talk of “developing, validating, procuring, and operationalising testing technology that currently does not exist” and “creating significant new logistical and manufacturing infrastructure and capacity”.
[/article]
All those consultants and private contractors are getting paid, which is all that matters. Getting paid to do fake work that we have invented to replace the real work that has been globalisationed to China.
Once this moonshot fails, they should look to time travel technology which also doesn't yet exist, and pay some more consultants to explain how going back to January and locking down earlier will prevent the doom.
Once this moonshot fails, they should look to time travel technology which also doesn't yet exist, and pay some more consultants to explain how going back to January and locking down earlier will prevent the doom.
Brexit and the hard Brexiteers supporting it is nothing more white English Nationalism, that's really all I have ever learnt from it tbf..
Regarding Scotland and the whole 2nd referendum / re-joining the EU etc, correct me if I am wrong, but the main reason that Westminster won't let them go is North Sea Oil. As I remember, taxes etc go to the country where the oil meets land so if Scotland splits, the tax revenue "should" in theory go to Holyrood.
Apparently it's nowhere near enough to cover their spending. I read that if they leave they'll have the biggest deficit in the Western world, so presumably that shortfall is covered by Westminster at the moment.
Unless someone call tell me otherwise, I'm no expert.
Oil is one of the issues with independence. I am not an expert on this either but I don't think it is as clear as Scotland getting the rights to all the oil in the area. It is essentially a UK asset and funding for the oil industry has been UK wide.
In terms of Scotland joining the EU, the problem would mainly be an economic one. Scotland would be starting independence with a large budget deficit anyway, as they have one already. This would be even larger in the event of independence. They would also be required to take a share of the UK national debt should they become an independent nation.
That isn't a problem as such, but there are requirements to joining the EU based on budget deficits and national debt. It is not a hard rule. Countries have been admitted to the EU with high budget deficits and high debts. But if they do then they have to follow an EU programme to reduce them, which wouldn't be much fun for the austerity-hating Scottish government!
If they still do wish to join the EU then I am sure the EU would let them, but it wouldn't be quick. Nothing in the EU is quick, and the Scots would essentially have to join the queue along with other countries who wish to join the EU under Article 49. Scotland would have an advantage in terms of most laws being aligned with EU law, but the economic issues (which include the rather thorny currency issue) would hold them back a bit.
This, by the way, is why Sturgeon was so keen to delay Brexit. Joining under Article 48 would have been easier, but now that Scotland is not an EU member, that option has gone and they are treated the same as any other non-EU country.
In terms of Scotland joining the EU, the problem would mainly be an economic one. Scotland would be starting independence with a large budget deficit anyway, as they have one already. This would be even larger in the event of independence. They would also be required to take a share of the UK national debt should they become an independent nation.
That isn't a problem as such, but there are requirements to joining the EU based on budget deficits and national debt. It is not a hard rule. Countries have been admitted to the EU with high budget deficits and high debts. But if they do then they have to follow an EU programme to reduce them, which wouldn't be much fun for the austerity-hating Scottish government!
If they still do wish to join the EU then I am sure the EU would let them, but it wouldn't be quick. Nothing in the EU is quick, and the Scots would essentially have to join the queue along with other countries who wish to join the EU under Article 49. Scotland would have an advantage in terms of most laws being aligned with EU law, but the economic issues (which include the rather thorny currency issue) would hold them back a bit.
This, by the way, is why Sturgeon was so keen to delay Brexit. Joining under Article 48 would have been easier, but now that Scotland is not an EU member, that option has gone and they are treated the same as any other non-EU country.
Surely Scotland can just negotiate an exit that involves giving England a lot of the oil revenue but taking in a lot of UK debt, and then just renege in the agreement a while later?
I wouldn't think they'd be treated the same as Turkey though , who signed an agreement with the EU in 1963 to work towards accession
For the sake of some context on breaching international agreements :
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#eec
The EU tops the list.
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#eec
The EU tops the list.
Was COVID in the US before Wuhan outbreak?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...15wIL_Fy_oFMVBDy4ATKEO0-bX5VCwGg#43f15d986b1f
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemima...15wIL_Fy_oFMVBDy4ATKEO0-bX5VCwGg#43f15d986b1f
That’s fine, a few of those companies whom consultants and private contractors are linked to individuals with in the government so it’s a quick pay day. Covid and Brexit has been great for removing any kind of accountability for those in power.
The individual to which you refer can always blame his universally accepted eyesight problems for not seeing the box marked "conflict of interest" when approving the pay day.
The mistake with Covid 19 was calling it the Coronavirus..
If it was called Everton it would never had made it into Europe
If it was called Everton it would never had made it into Europe
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...navirus-cooked-military-medical-facility.html
I hope that people manage to find the truth...
This all starts to sound like what's written in guns, jerms and steel.
I hope that people manage to find the truth...
This all starts to sound like what's written in guns, jerms and steel.
I don't dismiss this possibility, but that article actually leads me to believe the mainstream even more.
Daily Mail?
Not peer reviewed, but look how many clicks it got!
Wait till we find out that COVID was developed in an American lab and the Chinese were the victims of Comrade Trumpski under orders from Supreme Leader Putin.
I see Trumpski’s been advertising how he’ll protect the US with MiG-29’s & AK-47’s.
He’s not even hiding it anymore.
Right up the the point he started babbling about “herd mentality” yesterday and I began to wonder if Dantes would pull off Trump *cough*...
... sorry... pull off Trump’s mask to reveal it was Red Ninja all along and he would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for those pesky kids.^^
^^ May or may not have been delivered by “Bill & Hillary’s Getta Pizza Da Action”.
I see Trumpski’s been advertising how he’ll protect the US with MiG-29’s & AK-47’s.
He’s not even hiding it anymore.
Right up the the point he started babbling about “herd mentality” yesterday and I began to wonder if Dantes would pull off Trump *cough*...
... sorry... pull off Trump’s mask to reveal it was Red Ninja all along and he would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for those pesky kids.^^
^^ May or may not have been delivered by “Bill & Hillary’s Getta Pizza Da Action”.
Liverpool lockdown decision being made on Friday I'm told.
Liverpool was on the PHE watchlist last week as a concern. I would imagine it will probably move at least up to the next category (which in practice can mean any number of things, depending on the area and the specifics of the rise) but depending on the rise this week then it could move to the top category, which is no household mixing.
Friday is the day when the PHE watchlist is updated.
88.8 per 100k last night apparently. Wayy over the figures other areas have gone into lockdown with.
Do they close bars/pubs/schools?
Wondering cos the schools have all been sending home messages & letters asking about Internet access etc for remote learning again, which suggests they've been told to do so (they did it about three weeks before closing last time).
Do they close bars/pubs/schools?
Wondering cos the schools have all been sending home messages & letters asking about Internet access etc for remote learning again, which suggests they've been told to do so (they did it about three weeks before closing last time).
What sort of lockdown are you looking at?
We’re hoping to get out of Stage 4 Lockdown in a couple of weeks.
I get outside once a week to shop for groceries. Deciding between broccoli and broccolini is the highlight of my week.
It depends. Once an area reaches the level of intervention, then at the very least household mixing is stopped. Sometimes they go further and make bars, pubs and restaurants takeaway only and/or make them close at 10.
I haven't yet heard of all schools being closed within an area, but presumably if that is where the rise can be traced to, that is what they would do.
Areas have moved into the intervention category, numbers have moved down then they have moved back out of that category, so it is often the case that not a great deal of action is needed.
It is not entirely based just on numbers. One area might have rising numbers within the community as a whole, in which case it probably would get the form of lockdown that I suggested above. If the problem was something different (such as within the local hospital for example) then that might be dealt with differently.
Based on Leicester and now Bolton, it needs to get to around 130 per 100k before they close the pubs and restaurants. Schools are still open in Bolton and the rate is now over 200 per 100k.
They'll only close things which don't generate or help to generate tax revenues. For instance, if you want to play football in a park for free - illegal. If you instead go to the local five-a-side place and pay to play football in a more confined space - legal.
We’re showing new cases of less than 50 new cases a day in a metro population of 4.9 million (with some 2.5 million tests carried out) - and a total of under 20,000 cases in total since the start of it all.
I think our peak was just over 700 new cases a day.
Which is 700 per 4.9 million.
So if my math is right your 88 per 100,000 would equate to 4,300 in Melbourne.
Our peak of 700 would equate to 14 a day.
Now.... I said this earlier... we’re going into summer - all other states in Oz have maintains low level daily infection rates - less than 10 new cases a day without the same measures as Melbourne.
We can - from here on - operate more effectively “outside” across the most affected industries (hospitality, entertainment, etc).
I’m really worried about the UK - I think, and I guess this is based on my experience here where lockdown 2 was much harsher than lockdown 1 (and it hit just st the back end of winter) - if you’re seeing cases spike going in to winter - you’ve got problems.
We’re desperately hoping we get out of this to have some sort of normal Christmas.
UK - not all of it - have to say Norn Iron seems to be getting to grips with it - but I’m looking from afar and don’t really know.
I think our peak was just over 700 new cases a day.
Which is 700 per 4.9 million.
So if my math is right your 88 per 100,000 would equate to 4,300 in Melbourne.
Our peak of 700 would equate to 14 a day.
Now.... I said this earlier... we’re going into summer - all other states in Oz have maintains low level daily infection rates - less than 10 new cases a day without the same measures as Melbourne.
We can - from here on - operate more effectively “outside” across the most affected industries (hospitality, entertainment, etc).
I’m really worried about the UK - I think, and I guess this is based on my experience here where lockdown 2 was much harsher than lockdown 1 (and it hit just st the back end of winter) - if you’re seeing cases spike going in to winter - you’ve got problems.
We’re desperately hoping we get out of this to have some sort of normal Christmas.
UK - not all of it - have to say Norn Iron seems to be getting to grips with it - but I’m looking from afar and don’t really know.
Yeah.... thats not how we’ve done it here.
We’re much harsher - if it’s food or booze - you ca pick up; if it’s delivery a- go for your life; if it’s anything else outside that involves you travelling more than 5 km, takes more than an hour and involves more than 1 person - you’re fucked.
You’d be fine though - prossies & drug dealers should be able to supply.