Can of Worms 2

[beejay]

Following on from the thread about the resurgence of Mignolet, now that Klopp has had time to work with the squad at his disposal and we are statistically up with the best in 2016, are there others who we had written off who should now be retained next season?

Reading back on some threads from earlier in the year, the following would have been binned by the majority of this forum :

Mignolet
Flanagan
Lovren
Sakho
Toure
Skrtel
Moreno
Milner
Stewart
Lallana
Lucas
Allen
Henderson
Ibe
Sturridge
Benteke
Origi

That list doesn't include all the others who are definitely gone like Bogdan/Enrique/Balotelli etc.

So, time for humble pie - who were we wrong about and should form part of a squad that next year can challenge for the title with a few inspired signings?

I think you could make a good case for keeping them all, even Mignolet (with a strong competitor for his position) and Benteke (with more confidence and work rate).

Lucas (who was fucking ace against Everton), Stewart and Allen are all dependable squad members, Kolo has been good whenever called upon and is great in the dressing room, Skrtel is very experienced and when fit is still a quality defender, Ibe & Moreno are still young and have the skill sets to become top players under Klopp's coaching.

Lovren, Sakho, Milner, Origi and Sturridge have proved us all wrong in varying degrees and will surely be key members of the squad next year.

Funnily enough, it's only Henderson who to me has regressed under Klopp although part of that is attributable to this persistent injury. And personally, Lallana does my head in and we need better.

Anyone else changed their views on that list?

 

[Mors]

Out of that list I'd be happy enough to sell the following if the money was right:

Mignolet
Sakho
Toure
Skrtel
Moreno
Stewart
Lallana
Lucas
Allen
Henderson
Benteke

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

This thread has so much Lucas hijack potential. Release the Krakarn!

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Lucas was decent against Everton and while I think he's a decent squaddie, I can't 100% disagree with people who dislike him.
Mignolet is not good enough. He's been decent lately, but making very few mistakes should be the least you expect from your keeper. He's let in some howlers this season (including in a cup final).
I don't think the majority would have binned Flanno this season (maybe a few years ago)

 

[Hyena]

Lallana is awesome. Leave him alone.

 

[Modo]

Tier 1: Have to go, fucking Sports Direct type sale.
Lallana
Benteke
Allen

Tier 2: If we get decent bids
Henderson
Flanagan
Sakho

Tier 3: If we find a suitable replacement
Lucas
Skrtel

Basically, I can live with keeping Lovren.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Tier 1: Have to go, fucking Sports Direct type sale.
Benteke

Tier 2: If we get decent bids
Lallana
Sakho
Lucas
Skrtel

Tier 3: If we find a suitable replacement
Allen
Henderson

Want to keep Flanno ... good back up to have.

 

[manwithnoname]

I'd be happy to get rid of/ sell/ whatever:

Mignolet
Sakho
Toure
Lucas
Skrtel
Lucas
Allen
Lucas


Benteke looks as if he has no real future here, so add him to the list.

Henderson will be under scrutiny too, if he continues to struggle with the injury that robs him of much if his only real assets: physicality and mobility. Not arsed about Stewart, he's average. Flanagan needs to prove himself all over again after so long out.

 

[DHSC]

Mignolet
Benteke
Skrtel
Lucas

 

[Hyena]

I would sell Sakho and Lucas, but I think they're good for team morale.

I'd definitely sell Moreno. Ibe too.

Mignolet - Until and unless we get a top top top keeper, he's ok.

 

[rurikbird]

I think Lucas will be gone for sure – I'd be astonished if he's here next season. Sorry, Arn. Same goes for Benteke; so far he's almost the only LFC player who didn't improve and even regressed under Klopp.

Allen is the perplexing one – Klopp clearly appreciates his qualities, but it's also clear that he is a player who is a much more natural fit for a possession-oriented team and not so much for a balanced/counter-attacking team that Klopp is building. I think it's 50/50 whether he will stay or go and it's going to be mostly Allen's decision – will he go for a promise of guaranteed playing time somewhere else or try to fight for his place here. We are certainly being linked with loads of talented young CMs lately, which will make Allen's task harder should he decide to stay.

Moreno is another one I can see getting replaced; I think Klopp will buy a LB for sure and it's just a question if it's going to be instead of Moreno or as a competition to him. It's become clear by now that Moreno is a flawed player who will never become a really solid defender; the question is whether he can improve his attacking contribution enough to make a good case for tolerating his defensive shortcomings.

Among centre-backs, Skrtel and Toure looks like the most likely ones to make way for Matip and Gomez, but you never know – in truth a case can be made against any of the current crop of CBs.

I think Lallana will be here for one more season, but will leave after that – hopefully because of the competition from all the world-class attackers we will bring/develop by then. Finally some loanees like Wisdom, Alberto, and Balotelli will be sold for sure, but I'm very curious what Klopp thinks of Markovic.

 

[cloggypop]

Seeing as Klopp turned wingers into fullbacks at Dortmund and expected them to attack I don't really see him getting rid of Moreno. Nor should he.

 

[rurikbird]

Seeing as Klopp turned wingers into fullbacks at Dortmund and expected them to attack I don't really see him getting rid of Moreno. Nor should he.

He also expected them to defend. Both Schmeltzer and Piszek (first choice LB and RB under Klopp) are better than Moreno defensively.

 

[cloggypop]

Maybe he taught them how to defend.

 

[Halmeister]

I really like Lallana under Klopp. I was one of his biggest detractors. Allen too has done well recently playing higher up the pitch so I wouldn't get rid of either of those. Sakho I've always been a big fan of and he's done well recently like most. Hopefully he can keep up the consistency and the performances he usually shows in the big games against the lesser teams.

I think, for me, it's more a case of improving on the first team rather than getting rid of loads.

Benteke must go, unfortunately. I'd keep Henderson around, he showed last year and the year before that he can be an important player, but I'd give him another year as a bit of a squaddie to see how he handles his injuries.

Get a left back in as cover/competition for Moreno. A central midfielder with the quality to make the position his own and bump Lucas further down the list and another top quality striker.

Someone like Gotze will obviously help and probably move Lallana to the bench, improving the first team and the bench as well.

 

[KopRed]

I will definitely want Benteke gone.

The rest of the players can go if there is a better replacement or if silly money was offered.

 

[Mersey86]

Following on from the thread about the resurgence of Mignolet, now that Klopp has had time to work with the squad at his disposal and we are statistically up with the best in 2016, are there others who we had written off who should now be retained next season?

Reading back on some threads from earlier in the year, the following would have been binned by the majority of this forum :

Mignolet
Flanagan
Lovren
Sakho
Toure
Skrtel
Moreno
Milner
Stewart
Lallana
Lucas
Allen
Henderson
Ibe
Sturridge
Benteke
Origi

That list doesn't include all the others who are definitely gone like Bogdan/Enrique/Balotelli etc.

What about Markovic, Wisdom?
I think any of the above list could go except Lovren, Milner, Origi. If we get the right offer. Of course, some will be pushed out a little more actively.

 

[Fallon]

It's threads like this which is why I shouldn't come in the FF too often, because there's always someone who confuses/annoys with their baffling perspective. In this case anybody who doesn't think Allen is worth an extension on his £50k (ie fuck all relatively) even just as a squad player, and people who think we should get rid of the only scouser we have left because he had a bad lay off. I know it's in the nature of forums, but some seem to just be waiting to twist a knife.

 

[Markeh]

I'd prefer that we not to perform mass changes in the squad involving players that have done alright, they might improve or they might give us a more deep and talented squad next season. But some changes are likely / necessary:

Ming simply cannot be our first choice next season, 2nd choice or go
Lucas I have no real problem with but he won't get games and he'll want them at his age - he'll go
Skrtel for the same reasons as Lucas
Benteke doesn't suit us
Toure - his time is up

I'm not a Sakho fan but there's enough there to see how he'll fare next season, the only problem is if the first choice is Lovren / Matip I don't think he'll be happy.

 

[Modo]

I really like Lallana under Klopp. I was one of his biggest detractors. Allen too has done well recently playing higher up the pitch so I wouldn't get rid of either of those. Sakho I've always been a big fan of and he's done well recently like most. Hopefully he can keep up the consistency and the performances he usually shows in the big games against the lesser teams.

I think, for me, it's more a case of improving on the first team rather than getting rid of loads.

Benteke must go, unfortunately. I'd keep Henderson around, he showed last year and the year before that he can be an important player, but I'd give him another year as a bit of a squaddie to see how he handles his injuries.

Get a left back in as cover/competition for Moreno. A central midfielder with the quality to make the position his own and bump Lucas further down the list and another top quality striker.

Someone like Gotze will obviously help and probably move Lallana to the bench, improving the first team and the bench as well.

OK, I admit, I'm being very harsh towards Lallana. Maybe even unfair.
In a recent press conference Klopp expressed his delight with Lallana, especially his pressing game and that's probably the main reason why he's still in the first line up. He gives us balance.
My biggest issue with him though, is that he just doesn't do enough offensively. Sure, he sometimes pops up with a goal or an assist but it's almost never when it actually matters.

4 goals against Dortmund and he wasn't involved in any of them.
4 goals against Everton, same there. And for some reason people have him in their top 3 players of the game.

I don't get it. He just frustrates the hell out of me. More often than not he winds up in the corner with the ball, does a Cruyff turn. Hold the ball, does another Cruyff turn. Looks up, decides not to cross it and just passes it to the full back. That might be just all well and good. I mean he didn't lose possession of the ball right?
But then you find Coutinho in the same situation and he takes on the defender, gets passed him maybe 7 out of 10 times, cuts in, shoots or maybe crosses the ball.
That's what I want from him. That's what we all should expect from an attacking winger. Also, it is so easy to find someone who could press and be an attacking threat.

 

[cloggypop]

Scandos spell Cruijff weird.

 

[Modo]

It's threads like this which is why I shouldn't come in the FF too often, because there's always someone who confuses/annoys with their baffling perspective. In this case anybody who doesn't think Allen is worth an extension on his £50k (ie fuck all relatively) even just as a squad player, and people who think we should get rid of the only scouser we have left because he had a bad lay off. I know it's in the nature of forums, but some seem to just be waiting to twist a knife.

Regarding Flanagan I presume?
I understand the sentiments but he's just not good enough. Yes, he's the classic no nonsense fullback but Klopp wants an attacking fullback, hell it's one of the most important parts of his system. He likes them quick, dynamic and attacking.
Moreno for all his flaws suits Klopp way more than Flanagan does.
Ask yourself, why did Randall play against Bournemouth?
Also, Randall is a Scouser last I checked.

 

[Modo]

Scandos spell Cruijff weird.

The English spell smorgasbord weird.

 

[cloggypop]

The English spell smorgasbord weird.

They are not open minded enough to know what one is.

 

[Halmeister]

OK, I admit, I'm being very harsh towards Lallana. Maybe even unfair.
In a recent press conference Klopp expressed his delight with Lallana, especially his pressing game and that's probably the main reason why he's still in the first line up. He gives us balance.
My biggest issue with him though, is that he just doesn't do enough offensively. Sure, he sometimes pops up with a goal or an assist but it's almost never when it actually matters.

4 goals against Dortmund and he wasn't involved in any of them.
4 goals against Everton, same there. And for some reason people have him in their top 3 players of the game.

I don't get it. He just frustrates the hell out of me. More often than not he winds up in the corner with the ball, does a Cruyff turn. Hold the ball, does another Cruyff turn. Looks up, decides not to cross it and just passes it to the full back. That might be just all well and good. I mean he didn't lose possession of the ball right?
But then you find Coutinho in the same situation and he takes on the defender, gets passed him maybe 7 out of 10 times, cuts in, shoots or maybe crosses the ball.
That's what I want from him. That's what we all should expect from an attacking winger. Also, it is so easy to find someone who could press and be an attacking threat.

Yeah those have been my gripes with Lallana but he does set the tone in the way we play and he does open up a lot of space with his movement alone. He is often involved in goals, maybe not with a direct assist, but sometimes the pass before THE pass. He needs to start being more productive, though, you're right.

 

[Fallon]

Regarding Flanagan I presume?
I understand the sentiments but he's just not good enough. Yes, he's the classic no nonsense fullback but Klopp wants an attacking fullback, hell it's one of the most important parts of his system. He likes them quick, dynamic and attacking.
Moreno for all his flaws suits Klopp way more than Flanagan does.
Ask yourself, why did Randall play against Bournemouth?
Also, Randall is a Scouser last I checked.

I'd say the best I've seen from Flanagan (pre-injury) is better than the best I've seen out of Moreno. I also think he can be mobile enough, but is defensively minded first, so he's unlikely to be caught out anything like the number of times Moreno is. Randall, who I didn't know was scouse, looks like he could be quite good, but he is still a way off in his development yet and I'd imagine he started against Bournemouth because he was fit. I know the Mignolet contract makes things a bit harder to call, but do you think we'd have given him (Flanno) a new 3-year in March if he wasn't a part of plans moving forward?

It's the same as calling for Sakho's head now that he's fit, playing in a settled back line and is starting to look the part. The lad has only just turned 26 and is about to enter his peak years, the time to get rid was last year if we weren't happy. Going forward a CB pool of Sakho, Lovren, Matip, Gomez and probably another looks about as strong as you'll get in this league, and will be enough to challenge on multiple fronts barring injury. That's not to say they're perfect and won't fuck up, but then name me a defence that hasn't this year.

Even the empty headed muppet that is Alberto, I trust Klopp to be able to improve him. And if he can't improve him to the level we need (next season is the proper test I think), then I trust him to replace at the time that suits. This summer is a time to add quality though, and not make wholesale changes so, barring some silly bids, I wouldn't look to get rid of many. Obvious candidates like Markovic and Ballotelli, Benteke, Toure (love the guy, but he's done), Skrtel who'll be surplus, and one out of the midfield whether it's Lucas, Henderson (we'll never get the chance at £25-30M again after this year) or Lallana.

 

[peterhague]

I want Hendo, Benteke and Lallana gone, mainly because they'd raise good money and aren't needed.

Skrtel, Toure, and Lucas should really be moving on now.

They're the priorities out of the players currently in the squad.

 

[refugee]

You could argue that almost all of those players could be useful as squad players.

I don't want to see Ming, Moreno or Sakho as first choices but they'd all be fine as backups. Moreno may improve or find some form as a left winger but I can't see Sakho or Ming getting to an acceptable level, or at least not consistently. Consistency is such an important attribute in their position and I'd rather a solid 7 out of 10 defender / keeper than the highs and lows of those two. Flanno needs to improve, but he's been out for 2 years so it's hardly unexpected. He's also plays at left back and right back where we lack numbers, so he certainly deserves another year to prove himself.

We need more goals from Midfield, so I'd imagine that Lallana would drop to the bench for a new signing. Allen will likely be sold, but Henderson may also be vulnerable depending on what offers come in. None of those players score, create or defend enough to be irreplaceable.

Up front there are question marks over Studge and Ings. Ings looked impressive until his injury, but there is no guarantee he can get back to that level. Studge and Klopp seem to have a questionable relationship (and obviously Benteke falls into this category) . On paper, Studge, Ings, Firmino, and Origi seem fine on paper, especially if we add more goals / creativity to midfield, but Klopp might have different ideas depending on his relationship with Studge and what he sees of Ings in pre season.

I'm not particularly passionate about it, but I'd sell Ming, Sakho, Allen, Lallana, Benteke.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I'm in the (usual) Oncey school of thought in that we should try and not sell too many players, keep all that are playing regularly this season, and just add one or two extras.

Obviously the likes of Benteke would get a decent fee and wouldn't be missed, but after that, I don't think we need to sell anyone. If we can keep the core together, and add one or two on top of that, we should be good enough for at least top four next year.

 

[leftpeg]

I would absolutely want to keep:

Clyne
Flanagan
Lovren
Gomez
Stewart
Milner
Coutinho
Lallana
Can
Ojo
Firmino
Sturridge
Origi
Ings

The rest can either definitely go or I wouldn't be fussed if the price was right.