Brighton (A) Sat 14th of January

[Dreambeliever]

It’s virtually impossible to bring the same level of intensity year in year out. We won the league, crashed. Won two cups and almost won everything. This season was always going to be struggle town. City are the same but added some huge players.

A lot of over analysis going on.

 

[RedStar]

Personally i don’t think Klopp is too loyal to the likes of Ox and Keita, he just knows they’re broken high wage flops. His choice is recoup next to nothing and go thrift shopping or hope they contribute here and there.

It’s tragic that we’re actually fielding what would’ve been considered a strong team last year and still getting shafted. Really tough to watch.

That's an extremely generous take. The time to sell Ox was 3 years ago, not now that he's got 12 weeks left on his contract. We offered Keita an extension last year. They are here because he wants them here.

 

[Farkmaster]

That's an extremely generous take. The time to sell Ox was 3 years ago, not now that he's got 12 weeks left on his contract. We offered Keita an extension last year. They are here because he wants them here.

They are here because they are too shit to sell. Oxs wages are super high and he barely plays, and klopp clearly had enough of keita a while ago.

 

[peekay]

Personally i don’t think Klopp is too loyal to the likes of Ox and Keita, he just knows they’re broken high wage flops. His choice is recoup next to nothing and go thrift shopping or hope they contribute here and there.

It’s tragic that we’re actually fielding what would’ve been considered a strong team last year and still getting shafted. Really tough to watch.

We seem to have lost the ability to sell players for money. Ox, Keita, Gini, Firmino, Milner - leaving for free. Nat Phillips still around and has played less than 10 games in three years.

 

[rurikbird]

We seem to have lost the ability to sell players for money. Ox, Keita, Gini, Firmino, Milner - leaving for free. Nat Phillips still around and has played less than 10 games in three years.

Maybe it’s the payback for those inflated fees we got for the likes of Brewster - now clubs don’t think our players will be worth it.

 

[Frogfish]

For anyone that was able to watch, what was your take on Caicedo today?

He didn't look like a £60-70m player. Same thought as any time I've seen him TBH.

 

[Red Bird]

He didn't look like a £60-70m player. Same thought as any time I've seen him TBH.

I agree. He’s decent but he didn’t rip our powder puff midfield to but at all.

 

[Delinquent]

I agree. He’s decent but he didn’t rip our powder puff midfield to but at all.

Yeah, I don't see the hype around Caicedo either. Perhaps I'm watching him at the wrong times, but he just seems neat and tidy to me, without being particularly good at anything. If we bought him for £70m then Brighton would replace him for £10m.

 

[Red Bird]

Yeah, I don't see the hype around Caicedo either. Perhaps I'm watching him at the wrong times, but he just seems neat and tidy to me, without being particularly good at anything. If we bought him for £70m then Brighton would replace him for £10m.

And we’d find that £10 million replacement to be equally as good if not better. And repeat.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Yeah, I don't see the hype around Caicedo either. Perhaps I'm watching him at the wrong times, but he just seems neat and tidy to me, without being particularly good at anything. If we bought him for £70m then Brighton would replace him for £10m.

Isn't that what Gini gave us though? Neat and Tidy, showed up for big games, never injured, engine and physical presence in midfield?
Remember, we don't have that at all ... he's not worth 70 million but I'd happily have 3 caicedos over what we have now - and our team would improve exponentially because of that.

 

[Holle]

Gomez is shite, but he's another who rapidly regressed in recent years when he had a lot of promise. Trent hasn't improved one bit as a defender.

I think I've never seen a player who's as far up his own arse as Trent.

He's probably heard Klopp singing his praises too many times. So many times that he started believing he is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Red Bird]

Trent is just any easy target but the majority of the team is just as bad if not worse.

Yesterday, Salah was so narrow (he hardly helps out anyway as that's supposedly Henderson's remit) that the defender, right-sided midfielder (who is actually a great footballer in his own right) and AN Other had a field day on that flank. Meanwhile Alexander Arnold is asked to play high (don't believe me, listen to Klopp himself say so) that it was mostly left to Konaté to deal with the treat.

 

[Buddha]

Yeah, I don't see the hype around Caicedo either. Perhaps I'm watching him at the wrong times, but he just seems neat and tidy to me, without being particularly good at anything. If we bought him for £70m then Brighton would replace him for £10m.

So a perfect belated Gini replacement then!

 

[Red Bird]

So a perfect belated Gini replacement then!

Wijnaldum was a lot better than most seem to think and even before he went to Newcastle. We got him for a steal mainly because the maggies got relegated.

 

[Delinquent]

Isn't that what Gini gave us though? Neat and Tidy, showed up for big games, never injured, engine and physical presence in midfield?
Remember, we don't have that at all ... he's not worth 70 million but I'd happily have 3 caicedos over what we have now - and our team would improve exponentially because of that.

I agree - he's very much like Gini, and would definitely improve us. But I don't think that type of player should cost £70m.

 

[Fabio]

I agree - he's very much like Gini, and would definitely improve us. But I don't think that type of player should cost £70m.

Unfortunately you pay for what you need. And we need a stable combating presence in midfield

 

[Best Believe It]

Gini cost 25m which I remember thinking was a helluva lot at the time. Maybe 70 is the new 25

 

[rurikbird]

Trent is just any easy target but the majority of the team is just as bad if not worse.

Yesterday, Salah was so narrow (he hardly helps out anyway as that's supposedly Henderson's remit) that the defender, right-sided midfielder (who is actually a great footballer in his own right) and AN Other had a field day on that flank. Meanwhile Alexander Arnold is asked to play high (don't believe me, listen to Klopp himself say so) that it was mostly left to Konaté to deal with the treat.

You’ve just described a 4-4-2 “diamond” shape, which is what we tried to play, the best I could tell. Salah played narrow and didn’t help out on the wing because he was one of the 2 strikers alongside Gakpo. And the well-known drawback of that system is having the full-back all alone on the flank, so opposition playing with a winger and a full-back can double up on him.

It was utterly baffling tactics from Klopp to be honest. Thiago in a #10 role trying to press high behind 2 strikers is something I’ve never thought I’d see (now I’ll probably see it in my nightmares). You couldn’t design a worse shape if you tried.

 

[Best Believe It]

The players are fucked though. There really isn't any solution that's going to fix things apart from an influx of new players. So anything we try is going to look shit

 

[bluebell]

We signed the wrong Japanese...

People are waiting for me to sign "the Japanese". I have been saying for nearly 2 seasons already. Check out Daichi Kamada. Available right now really cheap, presses high up front, can play in CM and AM, and unlike Naby is fucking tall.

Anyways this morning its that talk of another Portuguese signing for us, Ruben Neves, I would be happy.

 

[Delinquent]

Unfortunately you pay for what you need. And we need a stable combating presence in midfield

So let's go and find one that doesn't cost £70m. Lots of teams have done it.

 

[Frogfish]

You’ve just described a 4-4-2 “diamond” shape, which is what we tried to play, the best I could tell. Salah played narrow and didn’t help out on the wing because he was one of the 2 strikers alongside Gakpo. And the well-known drawback of that system is having the full-back all alone on the flank, so opposition playing with a winger and a full-back can double up on him.

It was utterly baffling tactics from Klopp to be honest. Thiago in a #10 role trying to press high behind 2 strikers is something I’ve never thought I’d see (now I’ll see it in my nightmares). You couldn’t design a worse shape if you tried.

Yeah Klopp admitted he got it totally wrong. It was baffling. That said after we made the 4 changes we looked better and had Ox. not completely fucked up a simple header we would have been, totally undeservedly, back in it.

 

[rurikbird]

That period after quadruple substitution reminded me of a boxer who is hopelessly losing on points and can barely see out of a corner of one eye after all the punishment he took going on a wild flurry of punches in the 12th round, hoping to land a lucky knockout punch, but inevitably being knocked out himself (as we were with Welbeck’s goal). It was just pure agony and desperation, not an improvement or something you can build upon.

 

[Hansern]

The shape and tactics were one thing but its insane the amount of times we get ourselves into trouble.
We lose the ball in places and situations I didnt think it would be possible and we just invite chances and conceded goals.
A player like Matip just looks like doesnt know what he’d doing anymore. Same with Gomez.

The attitude, confidence and belief in what we are doing are gone. We wont fix it this season and a 6-8th finish on the cards I reckon now.
Europa Conference league here we come.

 

[Donavan Ried]

We signed Jota and Konate, two very capable players. We even signed Thiago later on.
I think the issue is that we didn't sign young midfielders. We relied on Keita, Milner and Jones to cover our midfield.
Ox and the three others should have been sold.
It's about quality and the fact that Klopp hasn't been ruthless in getting rid of players clearly not good enough.
Don't forget we wanted to sign Tchouameni too. This upcoming summer is make or break for us, we really need a revamp.

I am still not sold on Konate, but yes were bought Jota and Thiago, but they were still low level signing as far as spending goes.
Totally agree with you as far as the rest of your post goes.

Sad thing now is if we want to compete for the 23/24 title we are going to need to bring in some real quailty midfieders, two or three, and one of them will need to be top draw (world class) and spend every summer so decent money just to stay level with the rest...

Real sad thing is I can't see FSG doing this

 

[Mojo]

A lot of blame rightfully will be put on Klopp and FSG but I also feel that the players need to take a lot of responsibility for the crap performances.

There's no fight, no desire whatsoever.
We're too nice and other teams know that. We've been out fought practically in every game this season and that for me is squarely on the the players.
None of them seem to be showing any pride in playing for the shirt.... It's practically a given that they will be selected so what's the use.

Look at the scum, even in the game we played earlier this season, they were hungrier than us in every aspect.
This after we whalloped them 9-0 over the 2 games last season.

Our fucks just prance around like they just need to show up and the points will be ours, based on 4 seasons of challenging and a few trophies.
Fuck off with that shit.

At least kick the shit out of somebody when we're getting a hiding but no, we just fucking go into a shell like little bitches.

 

[Red Bird]

You could always buy the £10 million player who suddenly becomes worth £70 million after a few matches. The whole fee thing is utterly random; when people say we must spend between £200 and £250 million, on whom?

In the season we brought Wijnaldum, Man U paid over £30 million each for Schneiderlin and Depay, over £50 million for Martial. The season before having spent over £35 million each on Shaw and Herreira.

 

[Donavan Ried]

You could always buy the £10 million player who suddenly becomes worth £70 million after a few matches. The whole fee thing is utterly random; when people say we must spend between £200 and £250 million, on whom?

In the season we brought Wijnaldum, Man U paid over £30 million each for Schneiderlin and Depay, over £50 million for Martial. The season before having spent over £35 million each on Shaw and Herreira.

I understand what you are saying, but players in the higher end of the bracket have usually shown a better and more consisant level of perfromance at a higher level to warrent that higher price.
Althought I am in no way saying that these prices are in anyway justified

 

[Red Bird]

I understand what you are saying, but players in the higher end of the bracket have usually shown a better and more consisant level of perfromance at a higher level to warrent that higher price.
Althought I am in no way saying that these prices are in anyway justified

Oh, I agree to a very large extent. Salah and Mané, in their pomp, for example, were worth all the numbers that were being bandied about (we mugged Barça on Coutinho, though.) For what we needed at the time, van Dijk and Becker were also worth those fees (recall there were no bidding wars with these). I also recall that we ended paying a higher fee for the former after those shenanigans about interest were made public.

I just see little justification for a player who cost only £10m last season suddenly becoming worth £70 million agree a few games.

 

[binomial]

If we can at least avoid the europa conference I’ll be happy. Playing in that would be the ultimate embarrassment.