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Brendan Rodgers Liverpool

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Spot on. Gkmacca's post was drafted over the summer and he's been frustrated by being unable to use it after the first three games. It was always going to come out. If we'd been unbeaten for 20 games and then lost the 21st he would have trotted it out then. And for him to describe any member of this site as 'pompous'...and I mean any member irrespective of where they stand on any issue...is hysterically hypocritical.

He's got a short memory about some of the embarrassing defending he did of Kenny during his second stint, and I backed him too, because you know, I want to see people do well and at least get the time and chance to. I didn't lose it with Rafa until about 5 seasons in, same with Ged, managers need time, but some of the stuff of late on here from posters who've backed previous managers during similar runs of form, poor spending or whatever, is laughably hypocritical and hopelessly selective.

I hope Rodgers either gets his shit together or we make a decision sharpish the other way, but whoever we bring in will be on a hiding to nothing if they don't turn the club around. I'll want them to do well, because it means we're doing well. Not cheerleading, not being a superfan, just wanting the club to get back on track, I couldn't give a fuck who under, so long as we get there. I could (like other posters), have it in for the next manager from the word go because he's replaced this one, but they'll get my backing, even when the chips are down.

It's nothing personal but if people want to act like oneupmanship obsessed cretins then I can't be arsed anymore, they deserve all the flack they get. They'll get a spell where they can act like smarmy cunts because they'll get their own way and Rodgers will go, which is what alot of posters seem more obsessive about, having their day in The Lying Rag. Until 6, 12, 18 months down the line when the next poor twat doesn't turn us around overnight and we have to put up with Moo and other idiots telling us how shite they are every day until the same thing happens, ad infinitum.

How many managers challenge consistently and how many win the league? Not many, the ones who've done it of late have been at super-rich clubs and have ended up walking after a couple of seasons, they're non-entities alot of the time, but they generally get good backing from their fans. We on the other hand, stand and sing a hollow song while turning the other cheek and singing for other ex managers, etc. Classy supporters my arse.

We'll be in the same position two years down the line, because fans won't be happy unless we're challenging in back to back seasons and even then I suspect it won't be enough, because there will be another reason to want rid, to be a clan of critics who want to be proven right about 1 manager in a league of 20 not being the pinnacle and putting the club where it apparently "belongs". We don't belong to anything any more, we're just graceless pretenders trying to imitate something we read somewhere, or something we vaguely remember being "The Liverpool Way". Rubbishing characters as not being fit to stand in the shadow of past greats, while spending the next bedding in period desperately trying to look for words that are mildly reminiscent of something Sir Bob used to say, or a graceful touchline presence that Shankly used to demonstrate. I eagerly await being entertained by the shortlived, empty faith it promotes. It's like religion innit? We're all peaceful mates who are at one with the World and hoping for the same thing, until God doesn't deliver after a few months so we decide to turn on eachother, again.

Hypocrisy, bitterness and blind faith. Same old, same old.
 
It was always going to take some doing for most fans to forget what happend at the end of last season where Rodgers is concerned. In the first 3 games of the season a decent amount of points were taken but we only played well in the first half against Arsenal and were fortunate with a number of refereeing decisions in those games.
After the manner of the defeat against West ham all the feelings and anger of the end of season has come back to the surface and the manager is almost back where he started after last seasons Stoke game.
With the run of away games we have it was imperative that we win the relatively easy home games and that last defeat puts enormous pressure onto Rodgers going into the United game.
As I've said before I don't want Liverpool to lose games and I never will but I fully believe we would be better off without Rodgers. FSG have only got themselves to blame for not sacking him in the summer.
 
It was always going to take some doing for most fans to forget what happend at the end of last season where Rodgers is concerned. In the first 3 games of the season a decent amount of points were taken but we only played well in the first half against Arsenal and were fortunate with a number of refereeing decisions in those games.
After the manner of the defeat against West ham all the feelings and anger of the end of season has come back to the surface and the manager is almost back where he started after last seasons Stoke game.
With the run of away games we have it was imperative that we win the relatively easy home games and that last defeat puts enormous pressure onto Rodgers going into the United game.
As I've said before I don't want Liverpool to lose games and I never will but I fully believe we would be better off without Rodgers. FSG have only got themselves to blame for not sacking him in the summer.
Entirely fair enough. Obviously I don't agree 100% but it's a perfectly reasonable position to take.
 
Has anybody got any ideas as to why Rodgers was relatively a success at Swansea while his tenure at Liverpool has been largely a failure?
Or for that matter, why countless managers at Liverpool have ultimately failed?
 
Has anybody got any ideas as to why Rodgers was relatively a success at Swansea while his tenure at Liverpool has been largely a failure?
Or for that matter, why countless managers at Liverpool have ultimately failed?


The set up perhaps? Swansea from top to bottom have a clear, identifiable ethos and the whole club seem to be on the same page with regards to it, with the manager just being one part of a well-organised system.

We have no such vision or ethos. So, each manager that comes in uproots everything and tries instil their own vision from top to bottom over a few months. It takes years. Plus, they probably think that they themselves were responsible for the success at the previous club almost singlehandedly when in fact they're probably not that good.

I think we should sort the whole club out behind the scenes first so that it can work seamlessly when managers change. Dare I say it, but I'm close to Rosco's school of thought on this one.
 
Thanks leftpeg but fuck I must be getting old if i'm now being considered reasonable. Maybe my arguing in pubs days are over.
Definitely not chief. Age is no guarantee of reasoned thought, as is evident in this thread and plenty of others of late.
 
I don't dispute that he had success at Swansea with getting them promoted and then keeping them in the premier league in the first season up but the two managers they have had since have also done well whilst consistently losing players similar to southampton. Laudrup won them a trophy which must have been huge for the fans of that club and Monk has them playing good football and hard to beat as well. Monk especially seems to have learnt from Martinez, Paulo Sousa,Rodgers and Laudrup and added his own style to it. Maybe it's the case that Rodgers reached his high water mark quicker than most but has struggled to surpass that.
 
It was always going to take some doing for most fans to forget what happend at the end of last season where Rodgers is concerned. In the first 3 games of the season a decent amount of points were taken but we only played well in the first half against Arsenal and were fortunate with a number of refereeing decisions in those games.
After the manner of the defeat against West ham all the feelings and anger of the end of season has come back to the surface and the manager is almost back where he started after last seasons Stoke game.
With the run of away games we have it was imperative that we win the relatively easy home games and that last defeat puts enormous pressure onto Rodgers going into the United game.
As I've said before I don't want Liverpool to lose games and I never will but I fully believe we would be better off without Rodgers. FSG have only got themselves to blame for not sacking him in the summer.

I agree. It isn't just about the number of points. It is how we play. If we had played well and lost then it could be acceptable but the last year or so we have played like headless chickens. If we had played well then we the fans would believe that we will start winning games again and turn it around but there is nothing that points to that.

What should we the fans believe in? We have some excellent players but when the manager clearly don't have a clue how to get the best out of them then player after player get slated but the problem isn't them, it is Rodgers that play them out of position. How many quick attacking players do we have left at the club? Two. Ibe and Sturridge. One of them almost never plays and the other one is very young and need time.

I want to believe in Rodgers but we play so shit that you just want to cry. You get lauged at when you talk to other fans because we are a laughing stock and deserve to be laughed at. You can't blame fans that laugh at us. I do it myself because if I didn't then I would cry.
 
"Put up or shut up", says the poster who doesn't know how to lose an argument without some try-hard made up ITK bullshit he can't substantiate. Try backing up your bold fucking assertions for once in your damn life, or just shut the fuck up. Or one better, do you what you normally do, piss off for a few months in a hissy fit.



Really, have a think, a long think, maybe pm, and just grow up. That's it. No way forward otherwise. Seriously. That really is it.
 
He's got a short memory about some of the embarrassing defending he did of Kenny during his second stint, and I backed him too, because you know, I want to see people do well and at least get the time and chance to. I didn't lose it with Rafa until about 5 seasons in, same with Ged, managers need time, but some of the stuff of late on here from posters who've backed previous managers during similar runs of form, poor spending or whatever, is laughably hypocritical and hopelessly selective.

I hope Rodgers either gets his shit together or we make a decision sharpish the other way, but whoever we bring in will be on a hiding to nothing if they don't turn the club around. I'll want them to do well, because it means we're doing well. Not cheerleading, not being a superfan, just wanting the club to get back on track, I couldn't give a fuck who under, so long as we get there. I could (like other posters), have it in for the next manager from the word go because he's replaced this one, but they'll get my backing, even when the chips are down.

It's nothing personal but if people want to act like oneupmanship obsessed cretins then I can't be arsed anymore, they deserve all the flack they get. They'll get a spell where they can act like smarmy cunts because they'll get their own way and Rodgers will go, which is what alot of posters seem more obsessive about, having their day in The Lying Rag. Until 6, 12, 18 months down the line when the next poor twat doesn't turn us around overnight and we have to put up with Moo and other idiots telling us how shite they are every day until the same thing happens, ad infinitum.

How many managers challenge consistently and how many win the league? Not many, the ones who've done it of late have been at super-rich clubs and have ended up walking after a couple of seasons, they're non-entities alot of the time, but they generally get good backing from their fans. We on the other hand, stand and sing a hollow song while turning the other cheek and singing for other ex managers, etc. Classy supporters my arse.

We'll be in the same position two years down the line, because fans won't be happy unless we're challenging in back to back seasons and even then I suspect it won't be enough, because there will be another reason to want rid, to be a clan of critics who want to be proven right about 1 manager in a league of 20 not being the pinnacle and putting the club where it apparently "belongs". We don't belong to anything any more, we're just graceless pretenders trying to imitate something we read somewhere, or something we vaguely remember being "The Liverpool Way". Rubbishing characters as not being fit to stand in the shadow of past greats, while spending the next bedding in period desperately trying to look for words that are mildly reminiscent of something Sir Bob used to say, or a graceful touchline presence that Shankly used to demonstrate. I eagerly await being entertained by the shortlived, empty faith it promotes. It's like religion innit? We're all peaceful mates who are at one with the World and hoping for the same thing, until God doesn't deliver after a few months so we decide to turn on eachother, again.

Hypocrisy, bitterness and blind faith. Same old, same old.

Sounds like you're having a breakdown, I'd take a break from the site if I was you
 
Really, have a think, a long think, maybe pm, and just grow up. That's it. No way forward otherwise. Seriously.

Really Macca? You're the one who's been tossing out the "cheerleader" comment for months on end (like I say, you've got a short memory), now we lose a game and you go fishing for a bite in a thread where no one has really had that much to say in his defense since the weekend.

Go back and read it. What warranted the comment? It was ill-timed at best, it was just a juvenile attempt at saying "look at me, I was right!". Don't give it out if you can't take a bit back.

Actually you know what, it felt harsh having a go and I kind of added balance to that with my second post, but like I say, you're quick enough to jump on the opposition, yet you insult me for doing the same. It's all got a bit hypocritical, both ways.
 
That's it.

That's what? It's not really wide of the mark is it? What warranted you having a go, what warranted you posting the lazy dig about cheerleaders again? It was pointless and unnecessary, at least I'll say when I'm being a cunt, and yes, I've been a cunt.
 
I refer you to the post above that ought to have been transparent to all but a drunk or a psychotic. I did urge you to think. But that's it.


So you still haven't answered my question or justified your post. Like I say, I've been a dick sometimes, but at least I'll admit it. You've spent the Summer repeating your digs at the club, the manager and some fans...yet we're all fanatical cheerleaders & super fans for defending him or the club?? You couldn't wait to post something like that and the fact there wasn't really anything there for to be responding to makes it all the more transparent.
 
Or you could just address the points he makes.

What point is he making? That it's all the fault of the supporters?

Some of us care about the direction of the club, isn't that worth debating?

It's complete bollocks that the mainstream support is so fickle that no manager has a chance. Utter garbage, as a fanbase we have always put our managers on a pedestal higher than the players but we are not fucking stupid either so when the team are a shambles and setting new records for ineptitude, we naturally want to see us do better. It's not disloyalty, most of us happen to support the club first, that's all.
 
What point is he making? That it's all the fault of the supporters?

Some of us care about the direction of the club, isn't that worth debating?

It's complete bollocks that the mainstream support is so fickle that no manager has a chance. Utter garbage, as a fanbase we have always put our managers on a pedestal higher than the players but we are not fucking stupid either so when the team are a shambles and setting new records for ineptitude, we naturally want to see us do better. It's not disloyalty, most of us happen to support the club first, that's all.
Yeah and I do and if you read his post, Mark clearly does too. The point I was making was Mr Moo's (I can't even believe I've just typed that) post was a bit unnecessary and completely below the debate you're absolutely right to call for.
 
Mark, I said it twice, I even suggested a pm. I've no interest in this and I have a life. That's it. I can't put you on ignore, but you're ignored. Have a good life.
 
Nobody is suggesting Rodgers gets a free pass, nobody is suggesting we should keep him unconditionally. If there's a better option out there we should go for it as the club always did in its pomp...with players at least. If anything, my position is shifting towards the time being right for a change. I've reached this point based on performances etc...others reached theirs long ago based on them just not liking the guy. I'm not as dogmatic as that.
 
Mark, I said it twice, I even suggested a pm. I've no interest in this and I have a life. That's it. I can't put you on ignore, but you're ignored. Have a good life.
Nobody wields the ignore stick with as much fury as the Mighty Macca.
 
What point is he making? That it's all the fault of the supporters?

Some of us care about the direction of the club, isn't that worth debating?

It's complete bollocks that the mainstream support is so fickle that no manager has a chance. Utter garbage, as a fanbase we have always put our managers on a pedestal higher than the players but we are not fucking stupid either so when the team are a shambles and setting new records for ineptitude, we naturally want to see us do better. It's not disloyalty, most of us happen to support the club first, that's all.


Isn't that the point I was eluding to? I said as much, I can't be arsed with agendas against particular managers because they either a) weren't fancied from the off or b) dislodged a personal favourite manager, as seems the case with a few of his more vocal critics.

Like I said, onwards and upwards whether under Rodgers, Klopp or whoever, but lets not pretend a replacement will get a fair crack if they don't hit the ground running, we'll be back here soon enough.
 
I was mainly with Rodgers (most of the time squarely behind him) until I was convinced he was crap in about April this year.

How much time is enough to make a seemly judgement? Macca has always been a sceptic but was happy enough to praise him when it was going well. Even now he very rarely gets openly hostile towards him.
 
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