Plus, as if there are any gay supporters groups watching football. They're all busy watching Bake Off or something.
Billy Gilmour Chant
- Thread starter The Nomad
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Ftfy
Whatever happened to Anita? I miss her
Yah obviously ... and unfortunately, it's not a 'very small' group ... but in 'my world', I'm just tired of this shit. Live and let live. There have been things said in the past here which I think crossed the lines big time for me, but I tend to ignore them (i.e. the other side doesn't know/realize) ... I'd rather keep lines of communication open and respectful, as I feel that enables us to remain human ... as unlike animals, we're clearly more interested in eating each other more often than not for no valid reason. Oh well ...
@Atlas will know exact reasons - as I've forgotten, but I think she - like Andy years later - retired from forum live to dedicate herself to better, worthier goals.
I don't think is really a slippery slope - this is a very clear case of using a phrase that causes great offence across a community. Perhaps it wasn't created as a homophobic slur, but let's be honest, it probably was. Easy to just move on and find a new chant for the rent boys.
There is also a difference between a phrase that causes someone offence (as said, anyone can take offence at anything) and one that causes offence across a community, be that race, gender, sexuality or whatever. Like it or not we have to rely on that community, or the representatives of that community, to define what is offensive and take that on board. That does then open up the debate of "who really represents the community", and of course, it is impossible for one body to represent every single person within a community, but we need to use common sense & take it on trust, to a large extent.
Bigots like Sandon, or his reincarnation, tend to reduce everything to the individual to justify their position e.g. "I take offence when you call me gammon", and deliberately fail to acknowledge the community wide aspect of discrimination and offence
That is not to say it is OK to offend if it is just one person, but it is a much broader issue with communities.
Bigots like Sandon, or his reincarnation, tend to reduce everything to the individual to justify their position e.g. "I take offence when you call me gammon", and deliberately fail to acknowledge the community wide aspect of discrimination and offence
That is not to say it is OK to offend if it is just one person, but it is a much broader issue with communities.
No, you have to rely on the intention of the person saying the words. If people intend to offend you, that's what matters and creates inequality and division. If people unintentionally offend you, that doesn't matter. If you then attack those people and limit their freedom based on something you imagined out of thin air, well done, many of those people will now hate you and your community. Then when you get abused for real you can cry more and I will love to see it.
For example, if a hot latin student is sexually discriminated against, I will assist them in obliterating the offender without hesitation. Now imagine if I used some word that was offensive to women or latin people, purely unintentionally, and she then called me out, accused me of ignorance and so forth. That's fine. But now when that student is discriminated against, what do you think I will do? Exactly, sweet fuck all. This constant woke whining is going to result in workplaces and communities where people will do sweet fuck all too. Then you'll see how that works out for vulnerable people.
It's not worth it because you are instead generalising everything to a poorly defined unspecified community of individuals who don't actually exist, so that your fweelings fweel good, and then you will send thoughts and prayers to the actual individual victims of your brainless ideas for solving discrimination. In fact, you will use those victims to pat yourself on the back and justify your attempt to solve it. Not worth having that argument at all.
Like the whole trans thing. Without getting too deep into it, if you want to identify and switch to the other gender, then fine. It's your life, your body. Do whatever you want.
However, that in itself can bring problems further down the line. We're seeing an increasing number of very young children perhaps being encouraged to change gender for whatever reason before they can make a fully informed independent decision, taking medication and hormone blockers before they hit puberty. That's not right. I've seen cases of men identifying as women going to prison and raping female cellmates. There are trans athletes with genetically male bodies competing in female sports and taking away opportunities for female athletes. There was that trans cage fighter who nearly killed that woman in a bout, fractured her skull and all sorts.
I've gone off on a tangent, but it's easy to see how starting from a place of empathy and live and let live (which I agree with in principle) can lead to problems down the line. I think we're going to see more serious issues as time goes on.
More importantly, we've had some fantastic episodes of Always Sunny pulled down off Netflix because of the snowflakes.
However, that in itself can bring problems further down the line. We're seeing an increasing number of very young children perhaps being encouraged to change gender for whatever reason before they can make a fully informed independent decision, taking medication and hormone blockers before they hit puberty. That's not right. I've seen cases of men identifying as women going to prison and raping female cellmates. There are trans athletes with genetically male bodies competing in female sports and taking away opportunities for female athletes. There was that trans cage fighter who nearly killed that woman in a bout, fractured her skull and all sorts.
I've gone off on a tangent, but it's easy to see how starting from a place of empathy and live and let live (which I agree with in principle) can lead to problems down the line. I think we're going to see more serious issues as time goes on.
More importantly, we've had some fantastic episodes of Always Sunny pulled down off Netflix because of the snowflakes.
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Has there ever been a more rentboy name than Billy Gilmour? If Dickens was writing today and wanted to make up a name for someone selling his arse in a Soho bog he'd probs have made it up.*
*This post neither promotes nor dismisses people's individual rights on what they choose to chant at football matches, in no way suggests any agenda, and may contain nuts.
*This post neither promotes nor dismisses people's individual rights on what they choose to chant at football matches, in no way suggests any agenda, and may contain nuts.
You can excuse someone for saying something unintentionally offensive, provided they're open to the suggestion that what they've said is offensive and use that moment as an opportunity to educate themselves. If they refuse to acknowledge that what they've said is offensive, and get all uppity and defensive, then you've got a problem. Because then you're basically just excusing ignorance and bigotry.
This would be the aforementioned uppity and defensive response that helps nobody.
It's rank hypocrisy to criticise people for taking offence, when your first response to criticism is to take offence.
I'm really not arsed about this. It's not like I've ever started the chant, it's that idiotic herd mentality that you get at footy matches. At the same time I wouldn't want to piss off any of my gay mates if it offended them but was just informed by one that he isn't offended by it at all and fuck Chelsea. That's not to say one individual gay man's opinions are anything to do with the gay community en masse.
If it's horribly offensive then I wouldn't want to be involved. The message I'm getting is it could technically be offensive if you wanted to be a nob about it. And while I don't want to be middle aged white man with no empathy I don't think that counts at football matches.
If it's horribly offensive then I wouldn't want to be involved. The message I'm getting is it could technically be offensive if you wanted to be a nob about it. And while I don't want to be middle aged white man with no empathy I don't think that counts at football matches.
It's your complete dismissal of sociology that causes you to misread reality.
This reminds me of women that report guys for asking them out as sexual harassment. Had it been a guy she was crazy about she would have been delighted but because it was the poor village idiot she takes umbrage and reports him.
*sigh, glad this isn't my world any more.
I could sympathize with this view, if it wasn't for the homophobic culture ingrained in football going back and that gay people have suffered because of it.
Admitting you are gay has not been easy or even possible in the professional football world, not least in England.
Of course Justin Fashanu comes to mind. I am sure there are others less known.
It doesn't cost much to not chant it, as it is indeed homophobic.
The fans chanting it are not homophobic, they have no intention of promoting homophobia, no intention of offending gay people, and their basic human nature would have them jump to the defence of any oppressed gay person, because that's what humans do. All the fans want to do is abuse Gilmour, they've been told they can't do that, and further been told they're homophobes or just ignorant fools for doing it in the first place. Nothing has been cured. No gay person has been helped here. The only outcome is you've changed the human nature of those fans to now look the other way when a gay person is being oppressed, and rightly so. It is not human nature to help those who have harmed you. It's very simple.
Wasn't that also the name of the boy in the movie where he wanted to dance instead of boxing?
It is the total opposite, which is an indictment upon how badly your woke brains have decayed.
Ballet. Yeah I think it was. Good film.
Billy Elliot
Ah, yes. I mixed it up with Happy Gilmour.
I'd like to point out that I haven't actually seen Billy Elliott because I'm not a ponce.
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