Big three days.

[Mystic]

The next three days are a big oppotunity for us. With Chelsea going to White Hart Lane to face Tottenham on Thursday, there is a huge opportunity for us to close the gap on third and fourth. I fully expect a draw on Thursday, which really is the ideal result for us. If we can win against Wigan, it would leave us (and probably Arsenal) one point behind fourth and two points behind third (with one game in hand). Thats a fantastic position to be in and really changes the dynamic of the battle for the champions league spots. With a good Christmas period, we could really be up there.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I think Chelsea may win on Thursday.

I do hope you're right though.

 

[Buddha]

...and then we're at home to Blackburn and Newcastle. We really could get some momentum going.

The Suarez decision is huge.

 

[Rosco]

Not as big as the recent Shelvey decision though

 

[Buddha]

Of course. Shelvey is much more important to our plans than Suarez.

 

[Rosco]

to get on topic, I don't care about this season so I don't really care what happens between Spurs and Chelsea.

It's all about development this season, not league position

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447801#msg1447801 date=1324393156]
to get on topic, I don't care about this season so I don't really care what happens between Spurs and Chelsea.

It's all about development this season, not league position
[/quote]

Quite but development would be boosted 100% by getting the champions league. Coming into next season being able to by players who'd come to a champions league club is a huge huge huge benefit.

 

[FoxForceFive]

So whether spurs, Chelsea or us qualify for the CL wont effect our club's development?!

Are you on a permanent wind up now or are you going slightly mad?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447801#msg1447801 date=1324393156]
to get on topic, I don't care about this season so I don't really care what happens between Spurs and Chelsea.

It's all about development this season, not league position
[/quote]

it's about league position.
4th will help you keep the quality players you already have
4th will help you attract more quality players
4th will help you pay for those quality players

not saying we'll get 4th but it's massively important

 

[King Binny]

Not to forget the marketing and sponsorship revenues too. We aren't maximizing the Standard Chartered one, for instance.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48001.msg1447809#msg1447809 date=1324393331]
So whether spurs, Chelsea or us qualify for the CL wont effect our club's development?!

Are you on a permanent wind up now or are you going slightly mad?
[/quote]

I'm talking about the squad. It's a good young one, it should be given time to develop. I don't want to see it cluttered with any more expensive messes like Downing for the sake of getting 4th.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447822#msg1447822 date=1324394068]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48001.msg1447809#msg1447809 date=1324393331]
So whether spurs, Chelsea or us qualify for the CL wont effect our club's development?!

Are you on a permanent wind up now or are you going slightly mad?
[/quote]

I'm talking about the squad. It's a good young one, it should be given time to develop. I don't want to see it cluttered with any more expensive messes like Downing for the sake of getting 4th.
[/quote]

Indeed, but signing young world class players like Mata, Hazard, Cavani depends on it. I mentioned Mata because I believe him to be an example of a player we could and would have got if we were in the Champions League.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Mystic link=topic=48001.msg1447824#msg1447824 date=1324394317]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447822#msg1447822 date=1324394068]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48001.msg1447809#msg1447809 date=1324393331]
So whether spurs, Chelsea or us qualify for the CL wont effect our club's development?!

Are you on a permanent wind up now or are you going slightly mad?
[/quote]

I'm talking about the squad. It's a good young one, it should be given time to develop. I don't want to see it cluttered with any more expensive messes like Downing for the sake of getting 4th.
[/quote]

Indeed, but signing young world class players like Mata, Hazard, Cavani depends on it. I mentioned Mata because I believe him to be an example of a player we could and would have got if we were in the Champions League.
[/quote]

That bullshit argument was put to bed a long time ago. We won't be signing any of those names regardless of whether we're in the Champions League or not.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447822#msg1447822 date=1324394068]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48001.msg1447809#msg1447809 date=1324393331]
So whether spurs, Chelsea or us qualify for the CL wont effect our club's development?!

Are you on a permanent wind up now or are you going slightly mad?
[/quote]

I'm talking about the squad. It's a good young one, it should be given time to develop. I don't want to see it cluttered with any more expensive messes like Downing for the sake of getting 4th.
[/quote]

tbf i think this is a valid point. i don't rate our spending on senior players since comolli and kenny came in, but comolli's (presumably it's him) work in bringing in excellent young prospects in will, i think, pay off very nicely over the next 5 years. i think if we persevere with it, and hopefully add more good young foreign players as well, then we'll be just fine.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I suppose there's an argument for slower development, like europa league next season and CL after, but the financial implacations may stunt the ability to buy new younger players to supplement the squad.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447801#msg1447801 date=1324393156]
to get on topic, I don't care about this season so I don't really care what happens between Spurs and Chelsea.

It's all about development this season, not league position
[/quote]

This is not xperteleven Ros...

Our finishing position is important because our clubs bottom line depends on it...

 

[Atlas]

I really don't get that Ross, part of the development of the young players is to push them against be best in the best in the world, if they don make the step up they ain't good enough!

It's also imo about the development of the other teams like arsenal, spurs, Chelsea.
They will push on if they get champions league at our cost. I think if the likes of arsenal don't get champions league it will set them back a number of years as van persie will likely leave. Re chelsea if they will miss out they will lose out to other clubs re players especially at this point where they need to re build the squad.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=48001.msg1447830#msg1447830 date=1324394783]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447801#msg1447801 date=1324393156]
to get on topic, I don't care about this season so I don't really care what happens between Spurs and Chelsea.

It's all about development this season, not league position
[/quote]

This is not xperteleven Ros...

Our finishing position is important because our clubs bottom line depends on it...
[/quote]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48001.msg1447829#msg1447829 date=1324394632]
I suppose there's an argument for slower development, like europa league next season and CL after, but the financial implacations may stunt the ability to buy new younger players to supplement the squad.
[/quote]

You don't win the league in stages, you don't spend to reach the Europa league, then spend to reach the CL, then spend to reach to the top of the league - because by the time you get to spending to win the league you'll need to spend way too much to replace the players you shelled out for to make the Europa league, as well as whatever you need now. Although it has been the City / chelsea approach it's not really an option for us.

My preferred option - I've said this already - look at the age profile of the squad. There's the guts of a great team there in two years time - you only buy if you're sure a player will be good enough to play for a title winning side in two years time. Otherwise you hold fire and fill short term needs with short term inexpensive options i.e. you pick up Bellamy cheaply rather than blowing a wad on Downing. Neither will be good enough in two years time but one is costing you about 6m the other is about 36m. Leaving you with 30m extra to spend when your younger players have developed.

Talking about replacing Carroll for the sake of getting fourth (and maybe 30m in extra revenue) at the expense of his development and (and possibly 51m down the drain on Carroll plus whatever the new player costs) isn't all that cost effective.

We're making 200m a year without the CL, CL money is not critical at this stage. Spurs made 120m last year - but as as mentioned previously they spent a lot of time getting a bunch of young players together, shaping the squad and then added veterans to it when they felt ready to make a push under Harry.

Football clubs run in cycles, much like economies. We hit bottom last year, we need to remove all the waste from the club and then we can grow again. And we can win the league with our existing resources provided we don't make huge expensive mistakes.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think he means he doesn't want us to buy any stop gap players to fill gaps. Obviously the higher up the league we finish the better, but if we don't get into the Champions League it's not the end of the world, as long as our long term goal of winning the league is getting closer.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48001.msg1447844#msg1447844 date=1324396064]
I think he means he doesn't want us to buy any stop gap players to fill gaps. Obviously the higher up the league we finish the better, but if we don't get into the Champions League it's not the end of the world, as long as our long term goal of winning the league is getting closer.
[/quote]

yep, it's about wise investment and a steady hand. £20m on downing was fucking daft, and most people probably knew it at the time, even if they didn't say it. £50m+ on carroll and henderson was ok in principle, but carroll just isn't good enough or the right player, imo, and henderson doesn't look any better a prospect than shelvey even at 10 times the cost. so, for me, that's more than £70m poorly invested.

on the other hand, a couple of million here and there on the likes of shelvey, sterling, sinclair, ojo, ibe et al i think will prove to be very wise indeed, and basically makes up for the poor money spent on senior players. if we carry on making moves like those then i think, sooner or later, we'll get to where we want to be, whether we get short-term CL cash or not.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48001.msg1447865#msg1447865 date=1324396735]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=48001.msg1447844#msg1447844 date=1324396064]
I think he means he doesn't want us to buy any stop gap players to fill gaps. Obviously the higher up the league we finish the better, but if we don't get into the Champions League it's not the end of the world, as long as our long term goal of winning the league is getting closer.
[/quote]

yep, it's about wise investment and a steady hand. £20m on downing was fucking daft, and most people probably knew it at the time, even if they didn't say it. £50m+ on carroll and henderson was ok in principle, but carroll just isn't good enough or the right player, imo, and henderson doesn't look any better a prospect than shelvey even at 10 times the cost. so, for me, that's more than £70m poorly invested.

on the other hand, a couple of million here and there on the likes of shelvey, sterling, sinclair, ojo, ibe et al i think will prove to be very wise indeed, and basically makes up for the poor money spent on senior players. if we carry on making moves like those then i think, sooner or later, we'll get to where we want to be, whether we get short-term CL cash or not.
[/quote]

Incorrect.

 

[spider-Neil]

I definately agree with ross that we shouldn't be buying short term options (unless we can get away with loan deals).

 

[Mystic]

We've only made one short term buy in Downing and he should be able to serve at least three years, so he's not really short term either.

Cheap buys like Bellamy can't really be included.

 

[Hansern]

Downing is 27. He can play for at least 4-5 years at a good level. Its no way in hell a short term deal.

 

[Atlas]

Until they actually flipping make it the ibe, ojo, sterling Sinclair signings are similar to the Pacheco, barraghan, le tallec pongo etc. I can't it's been decided these 15-17 yr olds wi take us to prem glory none of them have played in the first team and one of them just signed today after playing a few games for Wycombe wanderers.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48001.msg1447938#msg1447938 date=1324401772]
Downing is 27. He can play for at least 4-5 years at a good level. Its no way in hell a short term deal.
[/quote]

He can play alright, he's just going to get worse as the deal goes on IMO

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Atlas link=topic=48001.msg1447944#msg1447944 date=1324402126]
Until they actually flipping make it the ibe, ojo, sterling Sinclair signings are similar to the Pacheco, barraghan, le tallec pongo etc. I can't it's been decided these 15-17 yr olds wi take us to prem glory none of them have played in the first team and one of them just signed today after playing a few games for Wycombe wanderers.
[/quote]

Quite this.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Atlas link=topic=48001.msg1447944#msg1447944 date=1324402126]
Until they actually flipping make it the ibe, ojo, sterling Sinclair signings are similar to the Pacheco, barraghan, le tallec pongo etc. I can't it's been decided these 15-17 yr olds wi take us to prem glory none of them have played in the first team and one of them just signed today after playing a few games for Wycombe wanderers.
[/quote]

Misses the point. Any fucking moron could point out there's no guarantee of them making it; the point is that the more you keep doing it the likelier it is you'll see a return, eventually to the point of near-certainty.

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447946#msg1447946 date=1324402320]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48001.msg1447938#msg1447938 date=1324401772]
Downing is 27. He can play for at least 4-5 years at a good level. Its no way in hell a short term deal.
[/quote]

He can play alright, he's just going to get worse as the deal goes on IMO
[/quote]

You have absolutly nothing to base that on despite you thinking he's shite and overpriced.
He's averaged about 40 games pr season for the last 7 seasons, which means he's rarely injured and in superb conition. He's good for at least 4-5 years. Maybe even more. Again no way a short term deal.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48001.msg1447955#msg1447955 date=1324403195]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48001.msg1447946#msg1447946 date=1324402320]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48001.msg1447938#msg1447938 date=1324401772]
Downing is 27. He can play for at least 4-5 years at a good level. Its no way in hell a short term deal.
[/quote]

He can play alright, he's just going to get worse as the deal goes on IMO
[/quote]

You have absolutly nothing to base that on despite you thinking he's shite and overpriced.
He's averaged about 40 games pr season for the last 7 seasons, which means he's rarely injured and in superb conition. He's good for at least 4-5 years. Maybe even more. Again no way a short term deal.
[/quote]

Wingers are usually at their best in their early to mid twenties, when their pace and agility is at it's peak.