Poll big andy carroll

[RedZeppelin]

Yeah I just watched the last few minutes of the game there and he was frankly useless when he came on .

I'd love for him to come good and in fairness he has had some semi decent games but overall it's hard not to be frustrated to fuck with what looks like a waste of £35m. 35 fucking million pounds !! Like El Pistolero said , how can you spend that one someone who hadn't proved they could do it over a few seasons ?. Surely we could have spent it better , if not on a striker then on other positions .

But we can't change that , so what do we do ? Try make it work when so far it hasn't or cut our losses ? Whatever , it's looking like we still need another striker .

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47615.msg1430326#msg1430326 date=1321956612]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430070#msg1430070 date=1321905282]
Where is Hansern?
He's Andy's #1 fan!
[/quote]

And?
Even if I love big Andy doesnt mean I didnt laugh out loud watching that video.

I'll say this though, even if he makes it or not at this club I find it absolutly horrendous that some call him an embarresment and disgrace for the club. He hasnt done anything wrong and it wasnt his desicion that we paid an insane amount of money for him. Itandje was an embarresment. Andy Carroll hasnt done anything wrong, and he's only 22. With, what 13 years of football still in his career.
The mobb mentality on some of our players is insane. It used to be Lucas.

Whats wrong with hoping that one of our players turns good?
[/quote]

nothing wrong with supporting the guy, and i guess most of us should do more of that, but i'm thinking it's your comical ali 'everything is excellent!!' bullshitting approach that me and others find irritating.

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47615.msg1430366#msg1430366 date=1321960996]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47615.msg1430326#msg1430326 date=1321956612]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430070#msg1430070 date=1321905282]
Where is Hansern?
He's Andy's #1 fan!
[/quote]

And?
Even if I love big Andy doesnt mean I didnt laugh out loud watching that video.

I'll say this though, even if he makes it or not at this club I find it absolutly horrendous that some call him an embarresment and disgrace for the club. He hasnt done anything wrong and it wasnt his desicion that we paid an insane amount of money for him. Itandje was an embarresment. Andy Carroll hasnt done anything wrong, and he's only 22. With, what 13 years of football still in his career.
The mobb mentality on some of our players is insane. It used to be Lucas.

Whats wrong with hoping that one of our players turns good?
[/quote]

nothing wrong with supporting the guy, and i guess most of us should do more of that, but i'm thinking it's your comical ali 'everything is excellent!!' bullshitting approach that me and others find irritating.
[/quote]

Whats that?

 

[El Pistolero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

 

[spider-Neil]

I still think andy has an important part to play in our season, I couldn't care less that he fell over his own feet in a 3 min cameo.

 

[Oncy]

Im still a fan. He needs games. I watched him a lot at Newcastle and we arent seeing anything like what he is capable of.
Im pro the big man.

 

[the count]

I like Big Andy too and think he will come good though I don't think it will be with us.
I think with him we have not necessarily bought a bad player, just the wrong player.
The type of football I hope we end up playing will be very much pass and move and will rely on clever runs/movement and vision from our front six.
Andy has some good football qualities but movement and vision isn't high on the list unfortunately.

 

[El Pistolero]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47615.msg1430387#msg1430387 date=1321963903]
I still think andy has an important part to play in our season, I couldn't care less that he fell over his own feet in a 3 min cameo.
[/quote]

It's not just a "3 minute cameo" though is it. His performances for the majority of the games he's played has lead to the ridcule. Our problem, well should i say his, is that he has got this massive 35 mil chain round his neck. And with that comes massive massive expectations. I just don't think the lad can handle those expectations.

 

[Fabio]

Unfortunately Andy seems to have been a good plan B. but so far kenny has played him a lot with the plan A squad.

 

[spider-Neil]

I saw carroll rip up shit at newcastle so the ability is there, if he were 26+ I would be worried, he is 22. the fee has been paid and he had nothing to do with that fee so it doesn't come into my thinking when I judge him.

 

[Oncy]

LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=El Pistolero link=topic=47615.msg1430398#msg1430398 date=1321964913]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47615.msg1430387#msg1430387 date=1321963903]
I still think andy has an important part to play in our season, I couldn't care less that he fell over his own feet in a 3 min cameo.
[/quote]

It's not just a "3 minute cameo" though is it. His performances for the majority of the games he's played has lead to the ridcule. Our problem, well should i say his, is that he has got this massive 35 mil chain round his neck. And with that comes massive massive expectations. I just don't think the lad can handle those expectations.
[/quote]

yep, well said. his character or lack thereof is yet another debit on his account. i've said it before, but it's frankly almost surreal that we gambled so much on a guy with sooo many question marks over him.

 

[El Pistolero]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47615.msg1430406#msg1430406 date=1321965336]
I saw carroll rip up shit at newcastle so the ability is there, if he were 26+ I would be worried, he is 22. the fee has been paid and he had nothing to do with that fee so it doesn't come into my thinking when I judge him.
[/quote]

He ripped up shit for all of 6 months at newcastle, Just as michael rickets ripped up shit for bolton for 6 months. I'm sorry the fee should most definatly be thought about, for that fee I expect a player to show in more than one game since he signed that he can rip shit up. The lad isn't even a 10 million pound player at the moment.

You don't spend that kind of stupid money for a 6 month period.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47615.msg1430330#msg1430330 date=1321956742]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47615.msg1430326#msg1430326 date=1321956612]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430070#msg1430070 date=1321905282]
Where is Hansern?
He's Andy's #1 fan!
[/quote]

And?
Even if I love big Andy doesnt mean I didnt laugh out loud watching that video.

I'll say this though, even if he makes it or not at this club I find it absolutly horrendous that some call him an embarresment and disgrace for the club. He hasnt done anything wrong and it wasnt his desicion that we paid an insane amount of money for him. Itandje was an embarresment. Andy Carroll hasnt done anything wrong, and he's only 22. With, what 13 years of football still in his career.
The mobb mentality on some of our players is insane. It used to be Lucas.

Whats wrong with hoping that one of our players turns good?
[/quote]

Dont worry H, i'm in your camp too
[/quote]
I am as well. Still has high hopes for the lad but it's obvious he's not exactly brimming with confidence at this day and age.

He'll be good.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430430#msg1430430 date=1321966950]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.
[/quote]Im talking about the finishing Stu. The opposition has nothing to do with how the lad can finish.

 

[Halmeister]

You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430433#msg1430433 date=1321967370]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430430#msg1430430 date=1321966950]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.
[/quote]Im talking about the finishing Stu. The opposition has nothing to do with how the lad can finish.
[/quote] That's balls. Having the space to be able to finish is everything to do with the opposition. You get more time and space in the Championship, I think that is pretty undeniable.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430435#msg1430435 date=1321967546]
You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.
[/quote]

Whoa there cowboy.
I think putting Chopra & Carroll in the same sentence is FAR closer to the reality than placing fucking Drogba and Carroll in the same sentence.

 

[Halmeister]

We'll see.

And I'm not saying he's as good as Drogba now, I'm saying he could be. Which isn't ludicrous. Like saying he'll only ever be as good as Michael bloody Ricketts.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430439#msg1430439 date=1321967748]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430433#msg1430433 date=1321967370]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430430#msg1430430 date=1321966950]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.
[/quote]Im talking about the finishing Stu. The opposition has nothing to do with how the lad can finish.
[/quote] That's balls. Having the space to be able to finish is everything to do with the opposition. You get more time and space in the Championship, I think that is pretty undeniable.
[/quote]Im not talking about space and opposition levels and all that wank Stu. Im telling you TELLING you the lad can finish. He is a natural finisher.
Anyway, I cant be arsed with this. Yes yes youre right then.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430435#msg1430435 date=1321967546]
You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.
[/quote]

Drogba IS technically superb, Carroll never will be hence he'll never be a patch on Drogba.

Yes we all know it's not Carroll's fault but if he hadn't have cost us 35M he wouldn't even be on the bench, never mind on the pitch. It IS fucking embarrassing that either a) he hasn't clicked into gear yet or b) our top brass gave our PL winning transfer kitty away to the Sally Army (which would indeed at least make me feel good about it instead of being overcome by a tide of indignant bile rising up my gullet every time I think we paid 35M for him).

 

[Stulikesdrums]

I would agree with El Pilstolero et al who are saying this, absolutely I would.
There is no way Andy Carroll will ever be able to do to Carragher what Drogba has managed to do over the years.
He will never have the same aggression, goal scoring ability, skill and technique that Drogba has so quite how he will be as good as him is a mystery to me.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430449#msg1430449 date=1321968108]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430439#msg1430439 date=1321967748]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430433#msg1430433 date=1321967370]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430430#msg1430430 date=1321966950]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.
[/quote]Im talking about the finishing Stu. The opposition has nothing to do with how the lad can finish.
[/quote] That's balls. Having the space to be able to finish is everything to do with the opposition. You get more time and space in the Championship, I think that is pretty undeniable.
[/quote]Im not talking about space and opposition levels and all that wank Stu. Im telling you TELLING you the lad can finish. He is a natural finisher.
Anyway, I cant be arsed with this. Yes yes youre right then.
[/quote]

Andy Carroll is a natural finisher? You've got to messing with me here, you've just got to be.

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47615.msg1430450#msg1430450 date=1321968127]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430435#msg1430435 date=1321967546]
You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.
[/quote]

Drogba IS technically superb, Carroll never will be hence he'll never be a patch on Drogba.

Yes we all know it's not Carroll's fault but if he hadn't have cost us 35M he wouldn't even be on the bench, never mind on the pitch. It IS fucking embarrassing that either a) he has clicked into gear yet or b) our top brass gave our PL winning transfer kitty away to the Sally Army (which would indeed at least make me feel good about it instead of being overcome by a tide of indignant bile rising up my gullet every time I think we paid 35M for him).
[/quote]

That's why I said as effective, not as technically superb. Which Drogba is.

I agree with the rest of your points. I don't really want to get drawn into this because it's a bit odd that I'm the one defending him when I don't rate him nearly as highly as some others do.

But when people say he's as good as Michael Chopra, I believe it's my duty as a sentient human being to put it right.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430453#msg1430453 date=1321968306]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430449#msg1430449 date=1321968108]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430439#msg1430439 date=1321967748]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430433#msg1430433 date=1321967370]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47615.msg1430430#msg1430430 date=1321966950]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47615.msg1430409#msg1430409 date=1321965508]
LOOK AT HIM!! HES FUCKING BEAST!!!

TRUST IN HIM. HE'LL MAKE YOU PROUD SOMEDAY!!

Andy Carroll - Newcastle United 2009/2010
[/quote]

Is it possible to be finished at 22 years of age?
Andy Carroll cannot run like that anymore, not even close.
He is wearing the #24 shirt in this and he was Newcastles #9 when we signed him so that video is what, 18 months old?
Its also all in the Championship which means fuck all really. Plenty of strikers are/were prolific in the Championship and could never do it in the Prem.
Evans-Blake, Chopra, Ricketts etc etc. Carroll is in the same boat for me.
[/quote]Im talking about the finishing Stu. The opposition has nothing to do with how the lad can finish.
[/quote] That's balls. Having the space to be able to finish is everything to do with the opposition. You get more time and space in the Championship, I think that is pretty undeniable.
[/quote]Im not talking about space and opposition levels and all that wank Stu. Im telling you TELLING you the lad can finish. He is a natural finisher.
Anyway, I cant be arsed with this. Yes yes youre right then.
[/quote]

Andy Carroll is a natural finisher? You've got to messing with me here, you've just got to be.
[/quote]No im not. And ive got faith. But its a stupid argument. I think hes good, you think hes bad. I guess we disgree.
The end.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430454#msg1430454 date=1321968316]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47615.msg1430450#msg1430450 date=1321968127]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430435#msg1430435 date=1321967546]
You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.
[/quote]

Drogba IS technically superb, Carroll never will be hence he'll never be a patch on Drogba.

Yes we all know it's not Carroll's fault but if he hadn't have cost us 35M he wouldn't even be on the bench, never mind on the pitch. It IS fucking embarrassing that either a) he has clicked into gear yet or b) our top brass gave our PL winning transfer kitty away to the Sally Army (which would indeed at least make me feel good about it instead of being overcome by a tide of indignant bile rising up my gullet every time I think we paid 35M for him).
[/quote]

That's why I said as effective, not as technically superb. Which Drogba is.

I agree with the rest of your points. I don't really want to get drawn into this because it's a bit odd that I'm the one defending him when I don't rate him nearly as highly as some others do.

But when people say he's as good as Michael Chopra, I believe it's my duty as a sentient human being to put it right.
[/quote]

i think the point is that PL history is littered with strikers who carve it up for a few months, well beyond their normal level. andy johnson, ricketts, demba ba, that swedish gloke at bolton last year. have we spunked £35m on one of them, though? time will tell, but i can't say i'm not concerned.

 

[Halmeister]

All he has to do is be more hungry and determined on the pitch. That would make him twice the player alone.

Add physical coaching to improve his conditioning, coaching to improve his finishing, then he could be unplayable.

To say he'll only ever amount to being a championship player is outrageously dismissive to his ability, the coaching staff and Kenny Dalglish.

 

[RedZeppelin]

The real big question is if we can ever manage to fit him into a style we want to play . Now i am not saying if he plays we have to hoof it or put loads of crosses in , but it's obvious he doesn't have the skill or mobility to fit in when we've played our better stuff . So we need to work out how to get him in a style which benefits the team and helps get his form back ..or we have to admit it's not going to work , at least as a starter in most games .

Personally I think Henderson and Downing have been a load of wank since they've been here .Ok there's been a few flashes but fuck for £35m combined fees that's not enough . But at least with them they look like they could fit into a decent , pacy style if their form improves . Well maybe .

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47615.msg1430460#msg1430460 date=1321968706]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430454#msg1430454 date=1321968316]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=47615.msg1430450#msg1430450 date=1321968127]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=47615.msg1430435#msg1430435 date=1321967546]
You're quite ridiculous with that assertion, Stu.

If he can be arsed, Carroll will be a monster. He'll never be technically amazing, but I believe he can be as effective as Drogba. IF, and it's a massive if, he pulls his finger out.

To say he's as good as EBANKS-Blake (Ebanks, not Evans) and Michael Chopra is fucking ludicrous.
[/quote]

Drogba IS technically superb, Carroll never will be hence he'll never be a patch on Drogba.

Yes we all know it's not Carroll's fault but if he hadn't have cost us 35M he wouldn't even be on the bench, never mind on the pitch. It IS fucking embarrassing that either a) he has clicked into gear yet or b) our top brass gave our PL winning transfer kitty away to the Sally Army (which would indeed at least make me feel good about it instead of being overcome by a tide of indignant bile rising up my gullet every time I think we paid 35M for him).
[/quote]

That's why I said as effective, not as technically superb. Which Drogba is.

I agree with the rest of your points. I don't really want to get drawn into this because it's a bit odd that I'm the one defending him when I don't rate him nearly as highly as some others do.

But when people say he's as good as Michael Chopra, I believe it's my duty as a sentient human being to put it right.
[/quote]

i think the point is that PL history is littered with strikers who carve it up for a few months, well beyond their normal level. andy johnson, ricketts, demba ba, that swedish gloke at bolton last year. have we spunked £35m on one of them, though? time will tell, but i can't say i'm not concerned.
[/quote]

Yeah exactly, I agree entirely. You could see that Elmander was shite from day one and just hit a purple patch, Johnson relied solely on pace, and I'm a bit too young to remember Ricketts in great depth.

However I think young Andy has far more to his game then any of those players. His strength and height are things that will not diminish, he doesn't rely heavily on pace, but he's not slow. He can hit a shot as well as anybody in the squad bar Stevie and can be a monster in the air. He just needs to work hard.

Whether he does it or not is another matter. And no, he's not worth £35m, but he was never going to be worth that much.