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Best ever right back

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SaintGeorge67

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OUR GREATEST RIGHT-BACK REVEALED
Jimmy Rice 02 July 2009
Thousands of you voted in our poll to discover Liverpool's greatest ever right-back - and the winner with a whopping 41 per cent of the vote was Phil Neal.
Prompted by the arrival of Glen Johnson, we set up an online poll with nine right-backs from the last 100 years.

The result was emphatic, with four-time European Cup winner Neal gaining twice as many votes as his nearest rival.

That was Steve Finnan, whose consistent displays during the Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez eras earned his 20 per cent of the poll.

Third came one-time Football Writers' Player of the Year Steve Nicol with 14 per cent.

Treble-winner Markus Babel was next with nine per cent, followed by the gifted but injury-cursed Rob Jones in fifth with eight per cent.





Now first was always going to be Neal (though I know some will disagree), but Finnan ahead of Nicol, Jones and (the incorrectly spelt) Babbel?
 
How many 40 year olds log in to the website and vote. It's a question of generations.
 
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34510.msg899046#msg899046 date=1246569009]
never saw neal play - babbel is the best for me.
[/quote]

You do need to go back and dig out the footage then.

Phil Neal was a well oiled cog in a well oiled machine. 4 Europeans Cup wins and countless other medals. Plus he was a dead eye from the penalty spot.

Babbel had class, but one season cannot make him the best we ever had.
 
Neal was bloody marvelous, but Babbel - boy oh boy, if it wasn't for that freak tragedy - he would've gone on to be our best ever right back.

Absolute fuckin (almost) legend.
 
Babbel was very good like, but I do think his rep is inhanced by the fact he only played for us for a short time. My memory of the treble season is of Hyypia and Henchoz being the stand out defenders and Babbel and Carragher being an excellent support cast.

I have Neal, Nicol and Jones ahead of Babbel and Finnan was every bit as good bar Babbel's goalscoring
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=34510.msg899057#msg899057 date=1246570018]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34510.msg899046#msg899046 date=1246569009]
never saw neal play - babbel is the best for me.
[/quote]

You do need to go back and dig out the footage then.

Phil Neal was a well oiled cog in a well oiled machine. 4 Europeans Cup wins and countless other medals. Plus he was a dead eye from the penalty spot.

[/quote]

He's also a fucking bellend.
 
1. Chris Lawler
2. Phil Neal
3. Steve Nicol
4. Steve Finnan
5. Rob Jones

Some great players like Emlyn Hughes and Tommy Smith played right back quite a few times in their careers but not regularly enough to justify selection. IMO Babbel wasn't with us long enough to justify selection.

My grandfather told me stories about a right back we had called Parson Jackson (because he was a Parson) who obviously was quite religious but unfortunately for him our goalie at that time was a Scotsman called Elisha Scott who swore continually - apparently their on-field "debates" about Scott's swearing were hysterical.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=34510.msg899057#msg899057 date=1246570018]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34510.msg899046#msg899046 date=1246569009]
never saw neal play - babbel is the best for me.
[/quote]

You do need to go back and dig out the footage then.

Phil Neal was a well oiled cog in a well oiled machine. 4 Europeans Cup wins and countless other medals. Plus he was a dead eye from the penalty spot.

Babbel had class, but one season cannot make him the best we ever had.
[/quote]

Exactly, besides.. I'd say there's probably more relatively young lads on here.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=34510.msg899206#msg899206 date=1246605710]
Scott was Irish wasn't he?
[/quote]

Yeah you could be right, Norn Iron I think.
 
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34510.msg899215#msg899215 date=1246607452]
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
[/quote]

Holy crap JJ I can't believe any long term LFC fan would put Babbel & Jones ahead of Lawler & Neal. Double espresso should wake yerself up and come to your senses.
 
Jones is possibly 3 times as fast though, so if hypothtically we were up against Barcelona, with Messi, Eto'o and Henry interchanging.. I'd pick him 99 times out of 100.
 
I know most posters will disagree with the following statement but..................

Rob Jones is one of the most over-rated players in recent years. He couldn't head a ball, he NEVER won a 50/50 challenge, he rarely made chances for others and NEVER scored goals. He was very quick and quite good on the ball but that was it - he was a very average right back.
 
Defensively he didn't need to be a muscle-man because his pace was indeed blistering and so was his anticipation. Attacking isn't a fullback's main job - I used it only to differentiate between a couple of players who I think were difficult to separate otherwise.

Chris Lawler is third on my list. He was a real class act but could someties have trouble with a really quick winger. IMO - and this is my really controversial bit - Phil Neal was no more than decent by LFC standards and had the immense good luck to play outside the Lawrenson/Hansen combo, which would have made ME look good at fullback.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34510.msg899215#msg899215 date=1246607452]
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
[/quote]

How can you say that? Think Xabi
 
Like I said in a bit of the post you didn't highlight, it's individual ability which I reckon should be compared in discussions like this. Managers, other players, other teams, family factors, injuries, all these and more can and do influence the development of a player's overall career. Xabi's actually a good example as his individual ability was clear after his first season, and the following two seasons cast an ultimately misleading shadow over him.

Where I would agree is that I wouldn't make comparisons based on one single season from a player who's still playing. To be valid, IMO such comparisons have to be made after a player's career is over and one can look at the whole of what he did for us. It's in that context that I think one season can tell us all we need to know. You can then look for the best that that player produced and rank it against the best from other players.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899226#msg899226 date=1246608413]
I know most posters will disagree with the following statement but..................

Rob Jones is one of the most over-rated players in recent years. He couldn't head a ball, he NEVER won a 50/50 challenge, he rarely made chances for others and NEVER scored goals. He was very quick and quite good on the ball but that was it - he was a very average right back.
[/quote]

I am inclined to agree with that. To a point.

Jones was a very good player but in some ways his legacy has been greatly enhanced by the fact he spent so much time injured. How much of his reputation is based on how good he COULD have been rather than how good he WAS?

Looking back on it I struggle to think of many games where one can really point to Rob Jones and say he was particularly outstanding. Only his debut at Old Trafford really.

Our best ever right back in terms of what they actually did for the team has to be Phil Neal. Yes he is cunt but 8 league title, 4 League Cups, 4 European Cups (2 of which he scored in the final), not missing a game for something like 7 years, 50 odd goals from full back. You can't really argue with that record
 
It's one of the positions I just can't ever decide on. We've had so many outstanding players there. Even players associated with other positions, including Gerrard and Lawro, looked immaculate when they filled-in there. I do feel Chris Lawler is now seriously underrated - the guy was a Rolls Royce of a player, and his goalscoring record was astounding.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=34510.msg899398#msg899398 date=1246621442]
It's one of the positions I just can't ever decide on. We've had so many outstanding players there. Even players associated with other positions, including Gerrard and Lawro, looked immaculate when they filled-in there. I do feel Chris Lawler is now seriously underrated - the guy was a Rolls Royce of a player, and his goalscoring record was astounding.
[/quote]

If Lawler had played with the Lawro/Hansen partnership there would be no debate - he would be seen as the best right back in our history. IMO he still is the best right back I've seen in a red shirt.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899219#msg899219 date=1246607897]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34510.msg899215#msg899215 date=1246607452]
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
[/quote]

Holy crap JJ I can't believe any long term LFC fan would put Babbel & Jones ahead of Lawler & Neal. Double espresso should wake yerself up and come to your senses.
[/quote]

Almost two.
Neal comes fairly well down my list , I think he was lucky player to be in that team, and have Jimmy Case or Sammy Lee in front of him, who do an awful lot of his work.
He may have been the most decorated but he by no stretch of the imagination was the best.

Rob Jones
Chris Lawler
Marcus Babbel
Steve Nicol


regards
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=34510.msg899161#msg899161 date=1246584194]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=34510.msg899057#msg899057 date=1246570018]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=34510.msg899046#msg899046 date=1246569009]
never saw neal play - babbel is the best for me.
[/quote]

You do need to go back and dig out the footage then.

Phil Neal was a well oiled cog in a well oiled machine. 4 Europeans Cup wins and countless other medals. Plus he was a dead eye from the penalty spot.

[/quote]

He's also a fucking bellend.
[/quote]

Indeed but that isn't part of the criteria when considering our best ever right back!
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34510.msg899428#msg899428 date=1246624370]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899219#msg899219 date=1246607897]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34510.msg899215#msg899215 date=1246607452]
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
[/quote]

Holy crap JJ I can't believe any long term LFC fan would put Babbel & Jones ahead of Lawler & Neal. Double espresso should wake yerself up and come to your senses.
[/quote]

Almost two.
Neal comes fairly well down my list , I think he was lucky player to be in that team, and have Jimmy Case or Sammy Lee in front of him, who do an awful lot of his work.
He may have been the most decorated but he by no stretch of the imagination was the best.

Rob Jones
Chris Lawler
Marcus Babbel
Steve Nicol


regards
[/quote]

You'd put a non-tackling, non-scoring, non-heading, non-assisting right back ahead of Chris Lawler? Vlad, ring Portly and get him to remind you about Chrissy's; tackling, goals (shitloads of them), assists and overall contribution.
 
I really liked Jones, and but for injuries he would have been really exceptional, but I don't think he played long enough, in enough big games, to warrant making it ahead of several of the others. As for Neal, he did the job he was asked to do - I don't think it's fair to just say he was in the right place at the right time. Joey Jones was in the right place at the right time but he didn't stay in the team because of that. And Neal played well at international level, too, putting in some fine performances against world class players.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899226#msg899226 date=1246608413]
I know most posters will disagree with the following statement but..................

Rob Jones is one of the most over-rated players in recent years. He couldn't head a ball, he NEVER won a 50/50 challenge, he rarely made chances for others and NEVER scored goals. He was very quick and quite good on the ball but that was it - he was a very average right back.
[/quote]

how wonderfully mad!! the pure essence of wrong.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899439#msg899439 date=1246625530]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34510.msg899428#msg899428 date=1246624370]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=34510.msg899219#msg899219 date=1246607897]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34510.msg899215#msg899215 date=1246607452]
As far as I'm concerned, one season is quite enough to look at a player and form a view about him for the purpose of a comparison like this. Otherwise you're comparing careers (which depend on many factors in addition to the player himself) rather than individual abilities. I respect the opposite view, but I don't agree with it.

My vote goes to Markus Babbel, and that's from someone who became a Red in Shanks' day, so I've seen 'em all. IMO in terms of individual ability it's between two guys who didn't have long careers for us, Babbel and Rob Jones, and Babbel shades it for his ability in the opposition pen.area as well as near his own. His illness robbed us of a player and a half. Markus Babbel ueber alles.
[/quote]

Holy crap JJ I can't believe any long term LFC fan would put Babbel & Jones ahead of Lawler & Neal. Double espresso should wake yerself up and come to your senses.
[/quote]

Almost two.
Neal comes fairly well down my list , I think he was lucky player to be in that team, and have Jimmy Case or Sammy Lee in front of him, who do an awful lot of his work.
He may have been the most decorated but he by no stretch of the imagination was the best.

Rob Jones
Chris Lawler
Marcus Babbel
Steve Nicol


regards
[/quote]

You'd put a non-tackling, non-scoring, non-heading, non-assisting right back ahead of Chris Lawler? Vlad, ring Portly and get him to remind you about Chrissy's; tackling, goals (shitloads of them), assists and overall contribution.
[/quote]

No one got past him, or got a cross in, an that in my book are the two basics for a full back.
I don't need reminding of what a great player Lawler was, and it was a very close thing in my mind.
His goal scoring for a defender was remarkable, at over 1 in 10 games for Liverpool,and I don't think he ever took any pens.
Points to note to help me justify my choice tough are that Lawler had 4 England Caps towards the end of his career, and Jones had 8 England caps at the start of an all to short one. I hand it to Jones on more than just potential, and it would not be fair to judge people on longevity with Liverpool as a criteria

regards
 
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