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Benteskeytelli

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I'm mystified why we need this scapegoating of Benteke, he will score if you provide (he'll even score when you don't cf. near 1 in 2 conversion rate) yet it persists when the likes of Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana et al should be both providing and chipping in with goals.

Obviously, we are not working hard enough, as Klopp says to do more to help ourselves. Quite honestly, our sloppy start and continual poor decision making on the pitch is self inflicted and needs to stop. In a League as topsy turvy as this we are wasting chance after chance of climbing the table.

As I've said previously, if a man like Klopp can't fill you with confidence then you've been over promoted and need to be replaced and that's where I think we are. This squad needs to be refreshed and I hope Klopp can find some energetic and clever footballers to complement the better players we have.
 
[article]He was the goalscoring hero over Christmas but Liverpool’s loss at West Ham highlighted why Christian Benteke might not be the answer for Jurgen Klopp, writes Adam Bate.

It was supposed to be a battle of towering target man past and present. Liverpool's Christian Benteke - all £32.5m of him - against one-time £35m signing Andy Carroll. On the day, it was no contest, with Carroll scoring and Benteke struggling in West Ham's 2-0 win at the Boleyn Ground. Each man had five shots. All of Carroll's found the target. None of Benteke's did.

In truth, over the course of his four seasons in England, Benteke has shown he has far more to his game. Indeed, only Romelu Lukaku, Sergio Aguero, Luis Suarez and Olivier Giroud have scored more Premier League goals in that time. But this was a display to leave Jurgen Klopp feeling uneasy.

On the face of it, that's extraordinary given that Benteke has scored winners against Leicester and Sunderland in the past week. But, even while playing the hero, there were elements of his performance that were a cause for concern. It's not yet clear if he is Liverpool's man for the long term.

"We need his goals but I don't only think about him and goals," said Klopp after beating Leicester. "We are not a team that can play with a striker who scores a goal but is not involved in the game for the other 89 minutes. We need the striker for the other options, too - to work for the other minutes."

Instead, Benteke began 2016 by covering just 8.88 kilometres on Saturday. No outfield player who played the full 90 minutes at Upton Park moved so little. More specifically, he failed to show for the ball and - most damningly - did not win his aerial duels either.

This is the man who won more balls in the air than any other player in the Premier League last season - 188 in total, ahead of the likes of Graziano Pelle and Peter Crouch. Up against physical centre-halves, the then Aston Villa striker won 55 per cent of his aerial duels.

Against West Ham, his numbers in this respect were as feeble as James Collins made him look. Benteke won only 15 per cent of his 13 aerial battles; or to put it another way, two of them. Carroll, in contrast, won nine of his 15 such duels. On the ground, Benteke was even worse.

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The theory was that Liverpool must cross more in order to get the best from Benteke. That was hardly the problem on this occasion, with the 32 crosses by Klopp's men the most they've attempted away from home all season. It was more than West Ham put in, but the home side scored from two of theirs.

Benteke could hardly point to poor delivery. Alberto Moreno put in several tempting crosses, but while Collins embraced the challenge of attacking the ball, the Liverpool striker was too often on the back foot.

One man cannot be blamed for the paucity of invention, but when Benteke's presence is dictating much of Liverpool's approach play, his failure to perform is significant. Particularly when Klopp's tactics are being shaped by necessity.

The swift counter-attacking style exemplified by the 6-1 win at Southampton requires the energy of forwards like Divock Origi and Daniel Sturridge. Without them, Liverpool look a different side. And, as Jamie Carragher explained to Sky Sports, the fluency lost with Benteke playing can be a problem.

"When Klopp came in, Origi started his first game at Spurs and we highlighted the work he put in," said Carragher. "That's what Klopp wants - we know that from Dortmund - and Benteke is not that type of player. He gives Klopp a problem in that he is the one goalscorer they have."

"He wants more from him, more movement, but the problem is nobody else in the squad scores goals. It's Liverpool's problem how they use him and get the best from him. With a powerful centre-forward you have to get the ball into his feet."

Klopp was linked with Benteke when at Dortmund and will be willing to work with the forward. He's a coach who prefers to find his solutions on the training ground rather than in the transfer market. "I know Christian can do this," he said last week. "He knows what he has to do."

But as Klopp put it on Saturday, "if you fight at 95 per cent, it's not enough". Benteke didn't come up with his goal at West Ham and so "the other 89 minutes" the Reds boss had talked about became the full 90. It was a glimpse of a Liverpool that Klopp will not want to see much more of.[/article]
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-be-a-problem-for-jurgen-klopp8217s-liverpool
 
Benteke averages about 60% aerial duals won in total in the league.
His horrendous stats yesterday are something else than Collins being good.
He looked tired which is understandable given the latest games.

Shame Origi was injured or we would have rotated and started him.

The suitability question is a difficult one for Klopp though. Cut our losses or work with him
 
Hes miles better than Carroll and Balotelli so that comparison is pretty pointless. Hes not really suited to our style of play and was probably never signed to be a first team player but a back up for Sturridge. The simple fact is that nobody would have predicted Sturridges fitness could actually get worse this season and that we would be so reliant on Benteke.

He was really poor yesterday but hes a decent player. Sadly we dont really have any other option but to persist with him short term, so it may get worse before it gets better. Where else are the goals going to come from, we really do have a severe lack of goals coming from attacking midfield positions. Ibe, Firmino, Lallana and Can have just 1 league goal between them this season. Benteke and Coutinho have been responsible for 50% of the 22 league goals we have scored this season, somebody else has got to start taking on some of that burden.
 
Hes miles better than Carroll and Balotelli so that comparison is pretty pointless. Hes not really suited to our style of play and was probably never signed to be a first team player but a back up for Sturridge. The simple fact is that nobody would have predicted Sturridges fitness could actually get worse this season and that we would be so reliant on Benteke.

He was really poor yesterday but hes a decent player. Sadly we dont really have any other option but to persist with him short term, so it may get worse before it gets better. Where else are the goals going to come from, we really do have a severe lack of goals coming from attacking midfield positions. Ibe, Firmino, Lallana and Can have just 1 league goal between them this season. Benteke and Coutinho have been responsible for 50% of the 22 league goals we have scored this season, somebody else has got to start taking on some of that burden.

Liverpool do not and can not spend 32m on 'back up players'
 
When he was coming off the bench against Chelsea for instance he was winning headers and being a nuisance.

Now he struggling to even do that. Collins owned him yesterday.
 
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He doesn't stand out as much as everyone suggests. It's not like we have a perfectly fluid system and he's the one problem. Our attack is shit and unbalanced as a collective, not just an individual.
 
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3 games in a week so it's not surprising he looked tired

If he was in the West Ham team he'd have scored
 
He was total and utter gash yesterday and he's been a disappointment so far, no matter how many goals he's scored. Klopp said that players don't get enough time here... but that's how it is here. You have to play well from day one, that's supposed to be why you buy players that have already done well in this league. I'm fucked off coz I was pretty certain that this was far more to his game than just winning aerial duals. Well yesterday he couldn't even do that, never mind anything else. He looks fucked off.

That said, Collins probs did the best defensive job I ever saw v Suarez, I think he's boss. Mind you I don't watch him that closely... I don't know if he's dead good or just dead good against us.
 
3 games in a week so it's not surprising he looked tired

If he was in the West Ham team he'd have scored

He had good opportunities for us yesterday that he miscontrolled or miskicked.

I guess the positive you can take from that he didn't hide after it happened the first time.
 
Stats from one game made into an argument and an article posing as offering valid analysis.
Again and again we see this.
 
Benteke averages about 60% aerial duals won in total in the league.
His horrendous stats yesterday are something else than Collins being good.
He looked tired which is understandable given the latest games.

Shame Origi was injured or we would have rotated and started him.

The suitability question is a difficult one for Klopp though. Cut our losses or work with him

There is no way Klopp is going to build a team around Benteke.
 
He doesn't stand out as much as everyone suggests. It's not like we have a perfectly fluid system and he's the one problem. Our attack is shit and unbalanced as a collective, not just an individual.

This is indeed the nub of the problem but that ultimately leads back to the midfield and we daren't criticise wonderman. I'm laughing at those who are surprised that a striker needs support or service from his midfield.

I wanted Benteke (at no more than 20m) because i thought we could have signed him in January for much less than 32m with his contract running down. That approach looks like it would have been much wiser given what has happened since , but thats what you get when you let a manager make transfer decisions. He thinks about saving his job rather than the big picture.

So far he's mixed some good goals in with some bad performances. But he's scored a number of winners for us if i'm not mistaken.

It was pointed out by (i think) either peekay or dmishra that Benteke plus a load of number 10's wouldn't work. It hasnt and it probably wont, so given Benteke is our most reliable goal scorer maybe we need to think about that approach.
 
32.5 million as a squad player..

If that was the case we would of kept Carroll.. He will be sold in the summer for around 20 million..

Selling Carroll wasnt a decision made by Klopp. What do they have in common except the fee?
They're not the same type of player at all. Klopp might sell him though but I wouldnt sell him to a PL rival.
 
If I was boss I wouldn't want to hear that my 32m striker was a bad fit id want my coach to make it work. Blaming your best goalscorer available for poor service from midfield seems the wrong way round to me.
 
As a club - has it ever worked for us with a big guy up front that stands still ? - all our strikers in the last 25 years and before that - have had movement of some kind, and an ability to bring others into the play to create chances. The way I see Benteke is a hit and miss guy, but I think he has the physical attributes to be great if he knew what to do, and when. But seriously - too many times I have seen him this season where does not look like he has a clue what to do. Can Klopp increase the intelligence of a player ? he can say you should do this or that in such a situation which I think he has done BUT I don't think Benteke can actually work out when the "situations" take place in a game.
 
As a club - has it ever worked for us with a big guy up front that stands still ? - all our strikers in the last 25 years and before that - have had movement of some kind, and an ability to bring others into the play to create chances. The way I see Benteke is a hit and miss guy, but I think he has the physical attributes to be great if he knew what to do, and when. But seriously - too many times I have seen him this season where does not look like he has a clue what to do. Can Klopp increase the intelligence of a player ? he can say you should do this or that in such a situation which I think he has done BUT I don't think Benteke can actually work out when the "situations" take place in a game.

Well, if you really mean "ever" the answer is yes - with Toshack, who was even slower than Benteke around the pitch but still fitted very well into the (admittedly far better) side. He did of course have someone as mobile as Keegan alongside him, and a similar type of partner for Benteke might well help, but that would mean playing two up front and few - if any - sides seem to want to do that nowadays.
 
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I doubt he'll stay on as a squad player. There doesn't seem much point in having anyone in the squad that can't press or have a decent level of movement. He's not the sort of player who is going to provide a plan B battering ram sort of thing, because he's not going to be happy unless he's playing regularly.

Really odd signing that's working out pretty much as everyone said it would.
 
Well, if you really mean "ever" the answer is yes - with Toshack, who was even slower than Benteke around the pitch but still fitted very well into the (admittedly far better) side. He did of course have someone as mobile as Keegan alongside him, and a similar type of partner for Benteke might well help, but that would mean playing two up front and few - if any - sides seem to want to do that nowadays.

I wanted to avoid mentioning Toshack because of Keegan and the fact that the team overall were much better but ultimately more intelligent than the dumb cunts we have now.
 
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