That's the key really isn't it, whatever striker we sign its going to be a case of after the Lord Mayors ball, our lack of goal,threat last season cost us dear and with Benteke we are buying a proven goal scorer.
Sure it isn't another Suarez but....
Benteke - BOOOOOO the puns
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Sure it isn't another Suarez but....
The way these negotiations went down once again shows that there is something seriously wrong with the decision-making process inside the transfer committee. It's the pattern we saw time and time again. Rodgers identifies a player he likes, usually it's a current EPL player who either played well recently against LFC, worked with Rodgers in the past or just had a break-out season (which means you don't really need a keen scouting eye or broad knowledge to identify a target like this). We enquire about the price and it's much more than we were originally prepared to pay – because the player in question happens to at the peak of his value (which means buying such players is the opposite of Moneyball).
Normally when you are looking to buy a striker for 20M and the selling club tells you it's 32.5M or nothing, you at least initially cool your interest and see who else you can buy in your original price range. But this doesn't work with the players Rodgers wants. What happens then is that we dither for a couple of weeks or a month, don't pursue any alternatives in a serious way and then simply go "to hell with it, here is the full price you asked for". The fans can sense we overpaid, so the club go on a full PR offensive to try to put a positive spin on it. Allen was branded the Welsh Xavi; Lallana and Lovren were hyped up last season; I guess Benteke will be the "Belgian Drogba." Doesn't really matter what the original price was; if Benteke's release clause was set at, say, 36.5M, who doesn't think we wouldn't pay it in the end? And the LFC-friendly media would still do their best to make an argument that the player is worth it.
Here is an interesting thing, nothing of the sort happens with foreign-based players we buy! Suddenly we become tough negotiators who are not willing to be held ransom by the selling club and are opportunistic in buying good value whenever it becomes available, which is why we have the likes of Coutinho, Can and Origi in the team. My guess is that it reflects the imbalance of power on the transfer committee; Rodgers can push his targets through even when they are way over budget and others have to scrap and negotiate for every penny for the players they want to bring (or abandon promising targets altogether when the budget becomes too tight).
To put it plainly, I don't think Rodgers is a good scout of talent at all; his targets are all too obvious with no hidden upside. Whereas whoever it is in the committee who is responsible for continental Europe (my guess it's Barry Hunter, former Man City chief scout of Italy, Switzerland and Russia) – usually has his targets spot-on and there is always an upside or room for the value to grow. I hoped after what happened last season the owners would learn the lesson and restructure the committee in a way that gives Rodgers less of a say over transfers, but unfortunately they chose not to do it and as a result our buying pattern seems to be the same again.
Normally when you are looking to buy a striker for 20M and the selling club tells you it's 32.5M or nothing, you at least initially cool your interest and see who else you can buy in your original price range. But this doesn't work with the players Rodgers wants. What happens then is that we dither for a couple of weeks or a month, don't pursue any alternatives in a serious way and then simply go "to hell with it, here is the full price you asked for". The fans can sense we overpaid, so the club go on a full PR offensive to try to put a positive spin on it. Allen was branded the Welsh Xavi; Lallana and Lovren were hyped up last season; I guess Benteke will be the "Belgian Drogba." Doesn't really matter what the original price was; if Benteke's release clause was set at, say, 36.5M, who doesn't think we wouldn't pay it in the end? And the LFC-friendly media would still do their best to make an argument that the player is worth it.
Here is an interesting thing, nothing of the sort happens with foreign-based players we buy! Suddenly we become tough negotiators who are not willing to be held ransom by the selling club and are opportunistic in buying good value whenever it becomes available, which is why we have the likes of Coutinho, Can and Origi in the team. My guess is that it reflects the imbalance of power on the transfer committee; Rodgers can push his targets through even when they are way over budget and others have to scrap and negotiate for every penny for the players they want to bring (or abandon promising targets altogether when the budget becomes too tight).
To put it plainly, I don't think Rodgers is a good scout of talent at all; his targets are all too obvious with no hidden upside. Whereas whoever it is in the committee who is responsible for continental Europe (my guess it's Barry Hunter, former Man City chief scout of Italy, Switzerland and Russia) – usually has his targets spot-on and there is always an upside or room for the value to grow. I hoped after what happened last season the owners would learn the lesson and restructure the committee in a way that gives Rodgers less of a say over transfers, but unfortunately they chose not to do it and as a result our buying pattern seems to be the same again.
Milner is quality and better than any current midfielder we have.
Bogdan is a solid GK and much needed as incredibly we've persisted with Letomign.
Clyne won't be worse than the inconsistent and disinterested Johnson.
Firmino by all account is a busy attacking player who defends from the front... Could be great could be not.
Ings is a good quality up and coming striker, better than what we have already.
Gomez... Kid
Origi looks to have pace and obviously has ambition unlike say, Ballotelli.
Benteke can be monstrous and is a proven goal scorer...
I'm pretty happy with all that tbh. We won't have any superstars ( unless Sturridge can rediscover his brilliance) however we will have depth across the squad and a core of talented if not exceptional players.
Trouble is... So do the others above us... We will need to be bang on it from the get go...
As for the others I can see Man City regressing, I don't see how they've strengthened. Chelsea haven't bought anyone but then they didn't need too particularly... United you would imagine will be much stronger with a galactico policy, but I'm not too sure it will work for them... Arsenal will be much better with Cech between the sticks...
Bollox... Having thought are dealings were good I'm not so sure now...
If a £30million player should elevate us into the Top 4 every time what on earth will the sums the current Top 4 have spent / will spend on more expensive players do for them ? Is there anything above Top 4 ? Shouldn't United have World Domination by now with £65million spent on Di Maria alone never mind £37m on Mata, £28million on Fellaini, Depay 25m, Schneiderlin 25m, Herrara 29m, Shaw 28m, ? You can even go back 10 years for 27m on Rooney (what would that be in today's valuations) ?
Whilst they still have 'unlimited' funds to tap we will always be playing catch-up (especially with the early demise of FFP), at least with Chelsea/City/United and probably with Arsenal now their stadium is paid for. £50/100/125m on transfers doesn't guarantee anything, at least 3 of those 4 clubs can spend that season after season.
With the advent of massive Sky and PL revenues £30million is the new £15million. It's becoming run of the mill for a good player going to a top club. Some of the posters on here are stuck in the past as far as transfer fees go. Foreign clubs know PL teams have the money and it's always going to cost us more than say Juventus. PL teams such as Villa also receive massive income from the PL even when finishing close to the relegation zone, why would they accept a low figure for a player that has been keeping them up for 2 years ?
Agreed. I've been banging this drum for a season now.
It's simply Catch 22. Once clubs see we've sold our strikers then they know a) we have more cash floating around and b) we are desperate to replace them. There is no 'best way' I'd wager.
They cant increase the price above his buyout fee
I'm sorry but was this forum not (deservedly) beating up the Transfer Committee with a big stick for NOT making adequate back-up to Sturridge ? And now you are berating Rodgers for buying a proven striker to provide competition, tactical options and a back up ?
Any new manager has his own vision anyway, they don't just come in and pick up where the old manager left off. A new manager always means rotation of coaching and playing staff, not continuity.
Of course not, but by the same token they are less likely to reduce the price below that stated in his buy-out clause. In Villa's case I totally understand that - they simply can't afford to lose him and it may be a long hard season ahead for them without him, considering he's scored (from memory so I'm not claiming absolute accuracy) 60% of their goals over the past 2 years ?
What negotiations ? This is how it seems to me to have gone down :
We try to get a discount on his Buyout Clause, Villa tell us, and make it well known in the press, that they 'Do not want to Sell'. That is understandable when considering how important he has been to the club's survival over the past 2 seasons and that they have to pass on 12.5% to Genk. Benteke makes it known he wants to leave but will not / does not submit a transfer request (which could be denied anyway). Result, it's pay the Buyout Clause or nothing. There are overtones of Sterling here despite his lack of a Buyout Clause.
You have made a helluva lot of assumptions there.
It also seems Benteke is/was always BR's first choice. We always talk on this forum about not hamstringing the manager with a committee and letting him thrive or fall based on his transfer decisions and not those of a committee, but now you are talking about just the opposite. Either he has the support of FSG (which it seems he currently has) or he should be on his way.
So you are saying when we meet for a pint you'll stop telling people I'm moronic dick on the internet? 😉
Villa are jammy in the extreme. They get Delph on a new contract with a ridiculously low release clause, and he doesn't want to go, and they sign up Benteke on an outrageously high release clause and we bid for him.
Collymore came from Forest went to Villa.
Tell us why Benteke is just ok? Absolutely fine if people have doubts over how he'll fit in etc but why is he just an ok player?
He's scored 1 in 2 for a poor to average side like Aston Villa. He's big, strong, mobile, can finish, can lead the line. He's 24 years of age and has everything going for him.
If he bangs in 20 goals for us which is by no means beyond him it'll be money well spent.
You telling Brendan Sissoko would be boss springs to mind.
Bringing Benteke in can mean only one thing.
A change in approach from Rodgers.
Will be interesting to see how we set up in the first half a dozen games.
A change in approach from Rodgers.
Will be interesting to see how we set up in the first half a dozen games.
Well, you'd presume so but who really knows? It wouldn't amaze me if Rodgers tries to convert him into being a false forward who never heads the ball and runs away from goal.
I believe I summed it up more succinctly when I said they were a couple of poofters.
At the very least he'll unsettle defences and give opportunities to our other players against teams intent on defending. Imagine he did go to united, we'd be very concerned about him when we play them. Drogba affected us mentally before he'd done anything because we knew we couldn't handle his physicality.
Well, I think at this point it's fairly clear than in Rodgers we have a manager who is really good at the tactical aspect of coaching, but not so good at scouting and buying players. I think he would have been twice the manager he is now if worked with a strong DOF who would just bring him the best football talent and let Rodgers mold them into a team.
Ha ha ha ha wasn't that Rafa's M.O?
Dirk Kuyt the best defensive striker the world has ever seen.
If Rodgers tries to convert him I can see Ings get a lot more game time and he is more suited to our style of last year.
To counter this, I've met Peter on numerous occasions and he's really a nice bloke and he never once called me apost pedantic, intellectual dimwit! Now I'm ducking out of this.
Don't have me call you a poofter!
Is that the best you can do, you post pedantic, intellectual dimwit?
Ps I'm serious. I think Peter is sound. I also like Dr-Mac too. I feel like I have to choose between them. I won't do it I tell you! That's what ladies do.
Plus I'm trying to drag it out for a few more pages because it's more interesting than the Benteke discussion.
How dare you be friends with that bitch!
It's the best thing to happen to this thread.
Agree with a lot of that mate. The biggest issue is not having a DoF for me.
That would have made this so much easier.
Rodgers knows what qualities he's looking for and someone like Monchi gets him that.
Seeing as FSG have shown they will back Rodgers. I think its better to do it 100%.
If Benteke is Rodgers top target, we've been scouting him for 2 years and would have moved for him last season if he wasnt injured, then I think its better to pay the extra money and get that player.
Obviously if the signing is also recommended by those involved.
Hunter has also given his approvel of Aspas, Alberto and Balotelli. Thats 30 mill.
We'd been better of signing Benteke than those 3.
No point in the committtee getting in players the manager cant use, wont use and that we'll struggle to get rid of if it doesnt work out.
