Benteke - BOOOOOO the puns

[Frogfish]

At the end of the day, if we sign Benteke, so be it, I'll support him - it's not my neck on the line.

It's is Rodgers neck on the line though - no excuses - if Benteke, Firmino, Clyne & Milner don't fire us into the top 4 - he's done.

I doubt that's true. Even FSG must be looking at the Top 4 and wondering how the fuck we're going to catch them when they are spending big money either on 2 or 3 players to strengthen the squad (Top 3) or way more money than us on multiple purchases (United) that look likely to see them challenging for the title.

 

[StevieM]

Agreed. Would only add that I suspect he'll have to have got us there by the New Year. The previous pattern, whereby that's more or less the time when Rodgers' sides have started to perform properly, may well not be enough for FSG this coming season.

There's absolutely no doubt he'll have to hit the ground running and fast.

The merest hint that last year is going to be repeated and he'll be under intense scrutiny and pressure.

The only positive, I guess, is that if he does get through it and the team performs & challenges, then it's a very important step in establishing himself as a long term option as our manager.

For all his bluster & bravado it boils down to this - is their actual substance behind his rhetoric?

 

[StevieM]

I doubt that's true. Even FSG must be looking at the Top 4 and wondering how the fuck we're going to catch them when they are spending big money either on 2 or 3 players to strengthen the squad (Top 3) or way more money than us on multiple purchases (United) that look likely to see them challenging for the title.

Chelsea & Arsenal have spent fuck all as yet & City have spent it on 1 player.

 

[Judge Jules]

And whatever they spend, Rodgers is going to have reckon with a target of top 4. It was his target for last season, the owners financed him to achieve it and (though admittedly not only through his own fault) he didn't. Now there'll be nowhere for him to hide. It's time for him to sh!t or get off the pot.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Lacazette... Money Talks.

Show him the money... Simple really...


Make a Statement.. Benteke is a risk as much as any other player..

Our Style in how we play may need to change to accomodate him.. He is hardly a prolific goalscorer either..

One in two is pretty prolific

 

[Silver Sean]

We are not going to make top four. We are miles behind those clubs. It's taken me many years to actually accept it, but it's true. The only players we can buy are ones none of them want, or ones they've finished using. At best we can unearth another star like Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Suarez etc and get two or three years out of them before they move onto better things. There is only one way to get back in the top four regularly. Pay big wages for the best players. That's modern football. The idea that the people running and coaching this team can somehow do it on the cheap by being better than the people running and coaching the top four is laughable. Rodgers' one decent season was the high water mark. We have no one at the club with experience or talent to turn the fifth most expensive squad into the number one squad.
Chelsea and Man City did not start hoovering up the best talent and winning stuff by selling them a 'project' or any other bullshit. They did it by paying top whack for the best players and creating an environment where the world's best want to play.
As Wiberg says below, let's hope the new revenue from the new main stand means we have the financial muscle to compete in a few years.

 

[Mors]

I don't understand all the love for Lacazette? I'm not sure how many people have seen him play and aren't just going with the tide that everyone says he's great (I've only seen him about 5 times myself) . In his last 5 league seasons he's scored the following (as a striker):

9 games 1 goal
29 games 5 goals
31 games 13 goals
36 games 15 goals
31 games 27 goals

Apart from last season, he doesn't seem to setting the world on fire, and has worse scoring record than Benteke in a much worse league.

 

[Wiberg]

We are not going to make top four. We are miles behind those clubs. It's taken me many years to actually accept it, but it's true. The only players we can buy are ones none of them want, or ones they've finished using. At best we can unearth another star like Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Suarez etc and get two or three years out of them before they move onto better things. There is only one way to get back in the top four regularly. Pay big wages for the best players. That's modern football. The idea that the people running and coaching this team can somehow do it on the cheap by being better than the people running and coaching the top four is laughable.
Chelsea and Man City did not start hoovering up the best talent and winning stuff by selling them a 'project' or any other bullshit. They did it by paying top whack for the best players and creating an environment where the world's best want to play.

So we take the current gate revenue from 42 mill to 85 in 2018 and get ready for a serious challenge in 19/20.

What's another year?

 

[Silver Sean]

So we take the current gate revenue from 42 mill to 85 in 2018 and get ready for a serious challenge in 19/20.

What's another year?

Let's hope so!

 

[Woland]

If we buy bentekkers we'll win this fucking league

 

[Wiberg]

Maybe if we get Pedro as well or a fit Reus. Then I'll believe.

I feel like we won it last year to be honest. I really do.

 

[Silver Sean]

And whatever they spend, Rodgers is going to have reckon with a target of top 4. It was his target for last season, the owners financed him to achieve it and (though admittedly not only through his own fault) he didn't. Now there'll be nowhere for him to hide. It's time for him to sh!t or get off the pot.

I still find it remarkable that FSG trust the whole shebang to a guy who has won nothing, ever.

 

[Wiberg]

I still find it remarkable that FSG trust the whole shebang to a guy who has won nothing, ever.

You have to start somewhere...? He is young. Imagine what he can do in 10 years time when we can pay the right salaries!

I like that approach much better than Van Gaal!

 

[StevieM]

We are not going to make top four. We are miles behind those clubs. It's taken me many years to actually accept it, but it's true. The only players we can buy are ones none of them want, or ones they've finished using. At best we can unearth another star like Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Suarez etc and get two or three years out of them before they move onto better things. There is only one way to get back in the top four regularly. Pay big wages for the best players. That's modern football. The idea that the people running and coaching this team can somehow do it on the cheap by being better than the people running and coaching the top four is laughable. Rodgers' one decent season was the high water mark. We have no one at the club with experience or talent to turn the fifth most expensive squad into the number one squad.
Chelsea and Man City did not start hoovering up the best talent and winning stuff by selling them a 'project' or any other bullshit. They did it by paying top whack for the best players and creating an environment where the world's best want to play.

With all due respect Sean, that's utter bollocks.

You can't bang on about us only signing players "none of them want, or ones they've finished using" and then list all the players that top teams have signed off us.

What we can't do it sign the best players in the world in their prime. Our strategy has clearly been to buy, at top price, young players who can reach the highest levels in the game & supplement that talent with good experience when we can.

The problem is - signing kids won't bring instant success, and now each player will have their own point when they start to believe their own hype and demand that glory is fast tracked to them in the same way that first team experience was fast tracked to them.

They key is patience and keeping the "kids" together for as long as we can.

If we start to be successful - win trophies- then we'll keep players.

Changing the team and the manager regularly won't improve our chances - there is a point where we cut our losses and try something different - and it's close - but let's not right Millner, Coutinho, Firmino, etc off just yet.

 

[Silver Sean]

With all due respect Sean, that's utter bollocks.

I don't understand your point here. Surely that's more proof we're a stepping stone for younger players right now.

You can't bang on about us only signing players "none of them want, or ones they've finished using" and then list all the players that top teams have signed off us.

I'm not writing the players we have off. I'm sure they will get us some good victories and we'll flirt with top four for some of the season. It's chicken and egg. I honestly don't see this strategy under this manager leading to winning the trophies we need to win to keep the players we do attract, or attract ones that have offers on the table from the top four.
As always, I hope I'm dead wrong. But I'll not change my mind that a better manager would improve our chances.

 

[Silver Sean]

You have to start somewhere...? He is young. Imagine what he can do in 10 years time when we can pay the right salaries!

I like that approach much better than Van Gaal!

To be honest, the utter capitulation in the FA Cup semi, home to Palace in Gerrard's last game and the 6-1 at Stoke finished him off for me.

 

[StevieM]

I'm not writing them off. I'm sure they will get us some good victories and we'll flirt with top four for some of the season. It's chicken and egg. I honestly don't see this strategy under this manager leading to winning the trophies we need to win to keep the players we do attract, or attract ones that have offers on the table from the top four.
As always, I hope I'm dead wrong. But I'll not change my mind that a better manager would improve our chances.

Yep - and I accept your position - there are parts I'd absolutely agree with.

It's just a little bit early in the "Liverpool Curve" for doom and gloom.

Let's get to September first before we right off the season [emoji6]

 

[Judge Jules]

You have to start somewhere...? He is young. Imagine what he can do in 10 years time when we can pay the right salaries!

I like that approach much better than Van Gaal!

Yes, he's young and for me that's part of the problem. I'm generally supportive of the owners but I've never agreed with their preference for a younger manager. The fact that we need to build ourselves up further as a club before we can permanently rejoin the very top level does NOT mean you sign up a manager who also needs building up. IMO we'd have a far better chance of getting where we want to be with someone like Ancelotti in charge.

 

[Wiberg]

To be honest, the utter capitulation in the FA Cup semi, home to Palace in Gerrard's last game and the 6-1 at Stoke finished him off for me.

For me it was a mission impossible. He had to play Gerrard even though he was clearly past it. To build around someone so poor off the ball, so slow, so little positional awareness was never going to be a winning format. But he had to give the legend a decent farewell.

Look at the win percentage without him. We will be so much better with Hendo and Milner and Lucas or Can. People who can actually run and close down space.

Gerrard was fantastic in his prime when he was a game breaker. The moment he lost that he was a big problem when we were off the ball. Imo his last big season was 09.

I think it's too easy just to blame Rodgers. It was an extremely delicate situation seeing Gerrard off.

 

[Silver Sean]

For me it was a mission impossible. He had to play Gerrard even though he was clearly past it. To build around someone so poor off the ball, so slow, so little positional awareness was never going to be a winning format. But he had to give the legend a decent farewell.

Look at the win percentage without him. We will be so much better with Hendo and Milner and Lucas or Can. People who can actually run and close down space.

Gerrard was fantastic in his prime when he was a game breaker. The moment he lost that he was a big problem when we were off the ball. Imo his last big season was 09.

I think it's too easy just to blame Rodgers. It was an extremely delicate situation seeing Gerrard off.

Just another example of BR proving he's out of his depth. Only in my opinion of course. The subbing at Chelsea 'so Gerrard could get an ovation' was a real low point.

 

[Wiberg]

Yes, he's young and for me that's part of the problem. I'm generally supportive of the owners but I've never agreed with their preference for a younger manager. The fact that we need to build ourselves up further as a club before we can permanently rejoin the very top level does NOT mean you sign up a manager who also needs building up. IMO we'd have a far better chance of getting where we want to be with someone like Ancelotti in charge.

I'm not sure I follow. We agree that the main problem is the salaries that we can't pay. So it's not a level playing field, right? No manager would be able to compete with the big 3 on the current budget. You might be able to stick your head in twice a decade but that's about it.

We are expanding. We are closing in on an 85 mill gate revenue from the current 42, think scum is at 120 a year, and soon we will be able to have a fair shout.

The long kiss goodnight is exactly the right approach.

Get behind it and believe with the sensible glasses on or live the next 5 years as a miserable bastard complaining about not winning trophies while we are paying half the salaries as the big 3.

It really is a no brainer 🙂

 

[Judge Jules]

I'm not sure I follow. We agree that the main problem is the salaries that we can't pay. So it's not a level playing field, right? No manager would be able to compete with the big 3 on the current budget. You might be able to stick your head in twice a decade but that's about it.

We are expanding. We are closing in on an 85 mill gate revenue from the current 42, think scum is at 120 a year, and soon we will be able to have a fair shout.

The long kiss goodnight is exactly the right approach.

Get behind it and believe with the sensible glasses on or live the next 5 years as a miserable bastard complaining about not winning trophies while we are paying half the salaries as the big 3.

It really is a no brainer 🙂

I'm not disagreeing with that overall approach. What I'm saying is that an experienced manager would be much more likely to make it work than someone younger who's learning the job as he goes along (though now we've got Rodgers I obv.hope he'll succeed and prove my concerns unfounded).

 

[scousemouse]

lets buy pato!!!

 

[Rosco]

This is a Benteke thread BTW.

 

[Mors]

lets buy pato!!!

And a supply of spare knees!

 

[Mystic]

lets buy pato!!!

Alexandre Pato and Mario Gomez, you're definitely a troll.

 

[Mystic]

Seeing as we're going to have to get used to this signing, has anyone got any good highlight videos of him?

 

[Red Bird]

I doubt that's true. Even FSG must be looking at the Top 4 and wondering how the fuck we're going to catch them when they are spending big money either on 2 or 3 players to strengthen the squad (Top 3) or way more money than us on multiple purchases (United) that look likely to see them challenging for the title.

We've spent as much as most, if the truth be told. We haven't just been wise. Also, it has to be about team cohesion rather than merely spending. The skanks stayed ahead of us (incomptent as we were for a significant proportion of the season) and Spurs mainly by the fingertips of de Gea's gloves.

 

[Wiberg]

This is a Benteke thread BTW.

Thanks Ross. That said this is a great read:
http://tomkinstimes.com/2015/07/the-transfer-price-index-in-euroland/

 

[Frogfish]

Chelsea & Arsenal have spent fuck all as yet & City have spent it on 1 player.

Well you know damn well that isn't how the transfer season will end, so that is pretty much what si going to happen.