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Arse Ratings

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[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=38889.msg1055078#msg1055078 date=1266329783]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=38889.msg1055068#msg1055068 date=1266327731]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=38889.msg1055067#msg1055067 date=1266327485]
My recollection is that Jim Beglin was a good LB, until that bluenose fuck basically ended his career
[/quote]

Nah, he was distinctly average. Dicks, Harkness, Traore and Bjornbye however were 100 times worse than him.
[/quote]

I totally disagree with your assessment of Beglin. Unfortunately his time was cut short by injury, however Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish all seemed to rate him highly
[/quote]

You could be right I have had a car-crash of a thread - I also forgot one of best ever left backs Alan Kennedy who definitely is in with Joey Jones and Alec Lindsay.

Beglin's career with us was very short so it's difficult to evaluate his input but i think he was decent without setting the world alight.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=38889.msg1055059#msg1055059 date=1266324780]
[quote author=Yoshi_Benayoun link=topic=38889.msg1054510#msg1054510 date=1266138094]
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38889.msg1054508#msg1054508 date=1266137478]
[quote author=Yoshi_Benayoun link=topic=38889.msg1054506#msg1054506 date=1266137327]
Never understood the hatred for Insua, at times this season he has been our best player going forward and he is a left back...HA!!!

Of course he hasn't always been a rock in defense but give credit when it is due.
[/quote]
I don't think any one hates him.

He just isn't good enough, like Dossena, Traore and Riise were before him.
[/quote]

Mate, I don't know about you but I put Riise and Insua a full level above Dossena and Traore.
[/quote]

Julian Dicks
Steve Harkness
Manu Insua
Djimi Traore
Fabio Aurelio
Stig Inge Bjornbye
Jim Beglin
Avi Cohen
Steven Warnock

*Weeps*

Considering the success our great team have had over the years it is amazing the lack of talent we have had to endure over the years in one position. We have had 2 great left backs in my lifetime Alec Lindsay and Joey Jones and I have reached the stage now in which I refuse to believe I will ever see even an adequate player in red shirt at left back.

For the record Riise is better than all the above players mentioned but not in the same league as Jones or Lindsay.

[/quote]
Your inclusion of 20-year-old Insua on that list seems extremely premature.
 
Very possibly KHL but I am so negative about our left back slot now that I'm likely to start sticking players we've been linked with but haven't even signed yet on the list.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=38889.msg1055089#msg1055089 date=1266332175]
Very possibly KHL but I am so negative about our left back slot now that I'm likely to start sticking players we've been linked with but haven't even signed yet on the list.
[/quote]

Haha that's fair then.
 
Fucking hell. You do have some serious chip.

Go away! Just recall how many assists and yellow cards Riise had this time!!

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38889.msg1055077#msg1055077 date=1266329756]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38889.msg1054988#msg1054988 date=1266315560]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38889.msg1054984#msg1054984 date=1266315444]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38889.msg1054970#msg1054970 date=1266314838]
Mike's alright. Quit scaring off the newbies Brendan.
[/quote]

How funny
[/quote]

Don't even downrightdare to suggest I come close to you in that regard.
[/quote]

That's not what Brendan finds funny, I think.

It's that you think Mike's 'alright'.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38889.msg1054715#msg1054715 date=1266229273]
riise started well and ended badly but on his worst day he wasn't as bad as inusa. I'd honestly take djimi over insua.
[/quote]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38889.msg1054715#msg1054715 date=1266229273]
riise was rubbish at the end of his career, fucking RUBBISH. that own goal was just the icing on a very large cake.
[/quote]

It is very difficult to take you seriously at times Neil.


For mine the only issue with JAR was his creativity was seriously lacking. However, he gave 110% about 120% of the time, scored more goals than any defender at Anfield for 20 years (as Mark has said), was strong as an ox and just as safe as Carra was at LB. Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense; one gave a couple of years of good service while the other served the club for close to a decade.


If Riise had possessed an extra yard of acceleration he'd have been in the top echelon of fullbacks.
 
There is no way JAR was as safe as Carra at LB. Carra's positioning and tackling were a good deal more reliable, and there's the rub - fullback is still a back four position first and foremost and JAR's defending, though it improved markedly under Rafa, was never out of the top drawer.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38889.msg1055278#msg1055278 date=1266358116]
There is no way JAR was as safe as Carra at LB. Carra's positioning and tackling were a good deal more reliable, and there's the rub - fullback is still a back four position first and foremost and JAR's defending, though it improved markedly under Rafa, was never out of the top drawer.
[/quote]

Yep,


that might have been reaching to the hyperbole side of things but the rest of it I stand behind.
 
He was solid yeah.

My main bone of contention with him was that he gave the ball away so fucking often. That and shooting from 40 yards out half a dozen times every game.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055272#msg1055272 date=1266357481]
Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense;
[/quote]

For some reason i remember us playing quite well with a backline of Insua - Skrtel - Carra - Arbeloa last year, as if Riise was a bigger loss than Arbeloa. Riise was a a dwindling star who went to the perfect league to look as young as he ever could be and now is showing it. Arbeloa was a FB on the rise (this isn't an age thing) who had always been reliable defensively and good in the air and was starting to learn and improve on the attacking side of his game. He has held down the RB slot for RM and improved his attacking play year on year for a while. As if he wasn't a huge loss this season; Lucas for Alonso has completely stunted our creativity from the middle and our ability to dictate play. But our flailing and staggeringly bad defense in the beginning of the year was down to the loss of one Alvaro Arbeloa and still he'll get no respect at all. As the thread I started a while ago showed he was an extremely taken for granted asset.

And I am upset we dont have Riise still but I remember quite a superb year last year without him even with our most expensive defender ever being brick shithouse.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38889.msg1055292#msg1055292 date=1266360543]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055272#msg1055272 date=1266357481]
Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense;
[/quote]

For some reason i remember us playing quite well with a backline of Insua - Skrtel - Carra - Arbeloa last year, as if Riise was a bigger loss than Arbeloa. Riise was a a dwindling star who went to the perfect league to look as young as he ever could be and now is showing it. Arbeloa was a FB on the rise (this isn't an age thing) who had always been reliable defensively and good in the air and was starting to learn and improve on the attacking side of his game. He has held down the RB slot for RM and improved his attacking play year on year for a while. As if he wasn't a huge loss this season; Lucas for Alonso has completely stunted our creativity from the middle and our ability to dictate play. But our flailing and staggeringly bad defense in the beginning of the year was down to the loss of one Alvaro Arbeloa and still he'll get no respect at all. As the thread I started a while ago showed he was an extremely taken for granted asset.

And I am upset we dont have Riise still but I remember quite a superb year last year without him even with our most expensive defender ever being brick shithouse.

[/quote]

Arbeloa was never playing this year after Johnson's signing so calling him a huge loss is stretching things immensely - despite the injury to our RB. In general terms Arbeloa has been living off the performance against Messi for his Liverpool career.


Last year we looked better at the back because our attacking intent was far greater and it put teams on the back foot. This year................ not so much.
 
If you don't think Arbeloa was a huge loss for this year than you don't like the look of this:

Arbeloa - Agger - Carra - Johnson

Because I sure as hell would. And then when Johnson gets injured instead of not having cover and having to put Carra out there we would have very good cover in Arbeloa.

Arbeloa was one of our most consistent and productive players last year and thats what I want in a defender (it's long been forgotten, i know). I was much more confident in him than I am in Johnson.
 
He didn't want to stay and he was in the last year of his contract. Of course he would have been useful the way things have turned out this season, but there is little point in speculating because our hands were tied.
 
Arbeloa on the left - given the form of Insua and injuries - would have been nice for sure. But we lost Riise and replaced him with a made of glass LB who had little positional sense in defence and scared of the tackle. That was a serious loss.
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=38889.msg1055197#msg1055197 date=1266352484]
Fucking hell. You do have some serious chip.

Go away! Just recall how many assists and yellow cards Riise had this time!!

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38889.msg1055077#msg1055077 date=1266329756]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38889.msg1054988#msg1054988 date=1266315560]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38889.msg1054984#msg1054984 date=1266315444]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38889.msg1054970#msg1054970 date=1266314838]
Mike's alright. Quit scaring off the newbies Brendan.
[/quote]

How funny
[/quote]

Don't even downrightdare to suggest I come close to you in that regard.
[/quote]

That's not what Brendan finds funny, I think.

It's that you think Mike's 'alright'.
[/quote]
[/quote]

A 'serious chip'?

Not really, I just didn't like your racial slurs.

Anyway, I don't recall those stats; I'd have to check.

So solly.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055298#msg1055298 date=1266360939]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38889.msg1055292#msg1055292 date=1266360543]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055272#msg1055272 date=1266357481]
Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense;
[/quote]

For some reason i remember us playing quite well with a backline of Insua - Skrtel - Carra - Arbeloa last year, as if Riise was a bigger loss than Arbeloa. Riise was a a dwindling star who went to the perfect league to look as young as he ever could be and now is showing it. Arbeloa was a FB on the rise (this isn't an age thing) who had always been reliable defensively and good in the air and was starting to learn and improve on the attacking side of his game. He has held down the RB slot for RM and improved his attacking play year on year for a while. As if he wasn't a huge loss this season; Lucas for Alonso has completely stunted our creativity from the middle and our ability to dictate play. But our flailing and staggeringly bad defense in the beginning of the year was down to the loss of one Alvaro Arbeloa and still he'll get no respect at all. As the thread I started a while ago showed he was an extremely taken for granted asset.

And I am upset we dont have Riise still but I remember quite a superb year last year without him even with our most expensive defender ever being brick shithouse.

[/quote]

Arbeloa was never playing this year after Johnson's signing so calling him a huge loss is stretching things immensely - despite the injury to our RB. In general terms Arbeloa has been living off the performance against Messi for his Liverpool career.


Last year we looked better at the back because our attacking intent was far greater and it put teams on the back foot. This year................ not so much.
[/quote]

Arbeloa is obviously a better defender than Johnson. You can't simply explain that away with our 'attacking intent'.

It's a sacrifice I'm happy to see us take because of what Johnson brings to the team when we're going forward, but it doesn't change the fact. Arbeloa was a good, consistent performer for us and had many more than the one good game you give him credit for.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055339#msg1055339 date=1266365339]
Arbeloa on the left - given the form of Insua and injuries - would have been nice for sure. But we lost Riise and replaced him with a made of glass LB who had little positional sense in defence and scared of the tackle. That was a serious loss.
[/quote]

Both tremendously huge losses 😉 imo, the only difference I see is one was in good form when they left and one wasn't. I only have one person to blame for inadequately replacing them
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38889.msg1055382#msg1055382 date=1266370533]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055298#msg1055298 date=1266360939]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38889.msg1055292#msg1055292 date=1266360543]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055272#msg1055272 date=1266357481]
Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense;
[/quote]

For some reason i remember us playing quite well with a backline of Insua - Skrtel - Carra - Arbeloa last year, as if Riise was a bigger loss than Arbeloa. Riise was a a dwindling star who went to the perfect league to look as young as he ever could be and now is showing it. Arbeloa was a FB on the rise (this isn't an age thing) who had always been reliable defensively and good in the air and was starting to learn and improve on the attacking side of his game. He has held down the RB slot for RM and improved his attacking play year on year for a while. As if he wasn't a huge loss this season; Lucas for Alonso has completely stunted our creativity from the middle and our ability to dictate play. But our flailing and staggeringly bad defense in the beginning of the year was down to the loss of one Alvaro Arbeloa and still he'll get no respect at all. As the thread I started a while ago showed he was an extremely taken for granted asset.

And I am upset we dont have Riise still but I remember quite a superb year last year without him even with our most expensive defender ever being brick shithouse.

[/quote]

Arbeloa was never playing this year after Johnson's signing so calling him a huge loss is stretching things immensely - despite the injury to our RB. In general terms Arbeloa has been living off the performance against Messi for his Liverpool career.


Last year we looked better at the back because our attacking intent was far greater and it put teams on the back foot. This year................ not so much.
[/quote]

Arbeloa is obviously a better defender than Johnson. You can't simply explain that away with our 'attacking intent'.

It's a sacrifice I'm happy to see us take because of what Johnson brings to the team when we're going forward, but it doesn't change the fact. Arbeloa was a good, consistent performer for us and had many more than the one good game you give him credit for.
[/quote]

Yup, yup, and yup.
 
I meant in this place, but yeh you're right.

Sometimes when I see Dossena's face I want to roll Neil up into a ball and shove him up his arse.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38889.msg1055391#msg1055391 date=1266375947]

I meant in this place, but yeh you're right.

Sometimes when I see Dossena's face I want to roll Neil up into a ball and shove him up his arse.
[/quote]

Ha.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38889.msg1055382#msg1055382 date=1266370533]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055298#msg1055298 date=1266360939]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=38889.msg1055292#msg1055292 date=1266360543]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38889.msg1055272#msg1055272 date=1266357481]
Suggesting that Arbeloa was a "far" greater loss is a nonsense;
[/quote]

For some reason i remember us playing quite well with a backline of Insua - Skrtel - Carra - Arbeloa last year, as if Riise was a bigger loss than Arbeloa. Riise was a a dwindling star who went to the perfect league to look as young as he ever could be and now is showing it. Arbeloa was a FB on the rise (this isn't an age thing) who had always been reliable defensively and good in the air and was starting to learn and improve on the attacking side of his game. He has held down the RB slot for RM and improved his attacking play year on year for a while. As if he wasn't a huge loss this season; Lucas for Alonso has completely stunted our creativity from the middle and our ability to dictate play. But our flailing and staggeringly bad defense in the beginning of the year was down to the loss of one Alvaro Arbeloa and still he'll get no respect at all. As the thread I started a while ago showed he was an extremely taken for granted asset.

And I am upset we dont have Riise still but I remember quite a superb year last year without him even with our most expensive defender ever being brick shithouse.

[/quote]

Arbeloa was never playing this year after Johnson's signing so calling him a huge loss is stretching things immensely - despite the injury to our RB. In general terms Arbeloa has been living off the performance against Messi for his Liverpool career.


Last year we looked better at the back because our attacking intent was far greater and it put teams on the back foot. This year................ not so much.
[/quote]

Arbeloa is obviously a better defender than Johnson. You can't simply explain that away with our 'attacking intent'.

It's a sacrifice I'm happy to see us take because of what Johnson brings to the team when we're going forward, but it doesn't change the fact. Arbeloa was a good, consistent performer for us and had many more than the one good game you give him credit for.
[/quote]

We probably differ on this point then cause I think Arbeloa had a dream day out against Messi and followed it up with consistently solid performances which were a long way short of "class". He was better than Josemi but never an improvement on what Finnan was providing when he left. That's not to say Rafa shouldn't have sold Finnan on since he was obviously not going to last forever. That his initial replacement was Josemi didn't serve well but while Arbeloa was adequate he was no huge step forward on Finnan IMO. I do take your point on defending as opposed to Johnson but my main point on this was that Arbeloa was not going to play RB from the moment Johnson was signed.

Conversely I think Dossena and co have been steps backward from Riise.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=38889.msg1055391#msg1055391 date=1266375947]

I meant in this place, but yeh you're right.

Sometimes when I see Dossena's face I want to roll Neil up into a ball and shove him up his arse.
[/quote]

I'm sure there are loads of 6CM members who are larger than me and therefore would cause 'the doss' more discomfort, I'm a poor choice.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38889.msg1055287#msg1055287 date=1266360048]
I never got this thing about Riise's defending. He wasn't suspect, he was solid.
[/quote]

He tightened up a lot under Rafa, that much is true. Before that he was a wing-back trying to be a fullback and often not making it. He was forever bombing forward and leaving big gaps behind him, which opposition teams regularly targeted (and would have made a lot more of, had Sami not been playing left-sided CB), and he dived into tackles and got left on his @rse too often.
 
Can't believe Riise is getting some stick here. He was a great servant to LFC for what, 6/7 years?

Scored many vital goals and put in many a big performance in the big games.

Fair enough his form dipped before he left but overall i thought he was a super player.
 
Yes, but too many people spent too long slagging him that when successive replacements are fat fucking clowns who are about half as good as JAR, the only face-saving device is to shout even louder about how crap Riise was

Unfortunate really, and a bit pitiful
 
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