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arbeloa...

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[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910878#msg910878 date=1248348692]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910869#msg910869 date=1248348412]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910863#msg910863 date=1248348062]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910852#msg910852 date=1248346298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34869.msg910843#msg910843 date=1248345421]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910841#msg910841 date=1248345064]
Has Arbeloa signed a new contract yet or does he still want to leave?

If he wants to go and won't sign then we should be trying to get rid of him rather than thinking of ways to accomodate him in the side out of position at the expense of others.
[/quote]

I'd write off the money and keep him for a year. we are a couple of injuries away from disaster in regards to the back line.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say so really.

In the centre we have Carra, Agger and Skrtel. We would be unlucky if 2 of those got injured at once, though with Agger I guess that is always possible! Not sure what the reserve CBs are like but I am sure one could fill in in an absolute emergency.

On the right we have Glen Johnson, who I suspect will play whenever available, and in reserve we have Arbeloa, Degen and Darby

On the left we have Aurelio, Insua and if we MUST we have Dossena

So if Arbeloa goes our weakest area would be right back, but you can usually get away with less experienced full backs if you have to. Its not like throwing them in in centre back or centre midfield.

If we keep Arbeloa he will go for free next summer. And at that point we will still be in the same position with our defence, as none of whom will have gained any experience because he would have filled in. The only difference is that next summer we won't have the fee for him to do very much about it.

Your plan on this seems very shortsighted
[/quote]

Whilst I am certainly not advocating Arbeloa for CB, one of three you mentioned was injured yesterday and it wasnt Agger
[/quote]

And if that is a problem would it not therefore be best to get rid of someone who wants to leave, isn't a particularly good centre back, isn't really desperately needed elsewhere and spend the money on cover in the centre?
[/quote]

I think your post, if you read it back, was suggesting that we didnt need CB cover. And as I said Im certainly NOT suggesting that Arbeloa be used as a CB. I still have nightmares about his last appearance there.
[/quote]

I did say that yeah, and I do still believe that. But clearly if one of our centre backs picks up an injury in pre-season then I'd revise that opinion!!
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910875#msg910875 date=1248348584]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910866#msg910866 date=1248348264]
If the offer's going to be around £2-3M I'd rather he stayed.

If it's around the £6-8M mark we should sell.
[/quote]

Would you pay £2-3M to take a back up right back on loan for a year? That is essentially what we would be doing
[/quote]

I don't think having Degen as first choice replacement is good enough for a team going for the title, and that's why we should hold onto Arbeloa unless we've got an experienced replacement in mind. I think it's worth sacrificing the £2-3M we'd miss out on.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910879#msg910879 date=1248348843]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910878#msg910878 date=1248348692]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910869#msg910869 date=1248348412]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910863#msg910863 date=1248348062]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910852#msg910852 date=1248346298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34869.msg910843#msg910843 date=1248345421]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910841#msg910841 date=1248345064]
Has Arbeloa signed a new contract yet or does he still want to leave?

If he wants to go and won't sign then we should be trying to get rid of him rather than thinking of ways to accomodate him in the side out of position at the expense of others.
[/quote]

I'd write off the money and keep him for a year. we are a couple of injuries away from disaster in regards to the back line.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say so really.

In the centre we have Carra, Agger and Skrtel. We would be unlucky if 2 of those got injured at once, though with Agger I guess that is always possible! Not sure what the reserve CBs are like but I am sure one could fill in in an absolute emergency.

On the right we have Glen Johnson, who I suspect will play whenever available, and in reserve we have Arbeloa, Degen and Darby

On the left we have Aurelio, Insua and if we MUST we have Dossena

So if Arbeloa goes our weakest area would be right back, but you can usually get away with less experienced full backs if you have to. Its not like throwing them in in centre back or centre midfield.

If we keep Arbeloa he will go for free next summer. And at that point we will still be in the same position with our defence, as none of whom will have gained any experience because he would have filled in. The only difference is that next summer we won't have the fee for him to do very much about it.

Your plan on this seems very shortsighted
[/quote]

Whilst I am certainly not advocating Arbeloa for CB, one of three you mentioned was injured yesterday and it wasnt Agger
[/quote]

And if that is a problem would it not therefore be best to get rid of someone who wants to leave, isn't a particularly good centre back, isn't really desperately needed elsewhere and spend the money on cover in the centre?
[/quote]

I think your post, if you read it back, was suggesting that we didnt need CB cover. And as I said Im certainly NOT suggesting that Arbeloa be used as a CB. I still have nightmares about his last appearance there.
[/quote]

I did say that yeah, and I do still believe that. But clearly if one of our centre backs picks up an injury in pre-season then I'd revise that opinion!!


[/quote]

I think you might need to revise it!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5449619,00.html
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910881#msg910881 date=1248348948]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910875#msg910875 date=1248348584]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910866#msg910866 date=1248348264]
If the offer's going to be around £2-3M I'd rather he stayed.

If it's around the £6-8M mark we should sell.
[/quote]

Would you pay £2-3M to take a back up right back on loan for a year? That is essentially what we would be doing
[/quote]

I don't think having Degen as first choice replacement is good enough for a team going for the title, and that's why we should hold onto Arbeloa unless we've got an experienced replacement in mind. I think it's worth sacrificing the £2-3M we'd miss out on.
[/quote]

We didn't have any better cover at right full back last year and that certainly wasn't why we didn't win the title.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910885#msg910885 date=1248349358]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910879#msg910879 date=1248348843]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910878#msg910878 date=1248348692]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910869#msg910869 date=1248348412]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=34869.msg910863#msg910863 date=1248348062]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910852#msg910852 date=1248346298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34869.msg910843#msg910843 date=1248345421]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910841#msg910841 date=1248345064]
Has Arbeloa signed a new contract yet or does he still want to leave?

If he wants to go and won't sign then we should be trying to get rid of him rather than thinking of ways to accomodate him in the side out of position at the expense of others.
[/quote]

I'd write off the money and keep him for a year. we are a couple of injuries away from disaster in regards to the back line.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say so really.

In the centre we have Carra, Agger and Skrtel. We would be unlucky if 2 of those got injured at once, though with Agger I guess that is always possible! Not sure what the reserve CBs are like but I am sure one could fill in in an absolute emergency.

On the right we have Glen Johnson, who I suspect will play whenever available, and in reserve we have Arbeloa, Degen and Darby

On the left we have Aurelio, Insua and if we MUST we have Dossena

So if Arbeloa goes our weakest area would be right back, but you can usually get away with less experienced full backs if you have to. Its not like throwing them in in centre back or centre midfield.

If we keep Arbeloa he will go for free next summer. And at that point we will still be in the same position with our defence, as none of whom will have gained any experience because he would have filled in. The only difference is that next summer we won't have the fee for him to do very much about it.

Your plan on this seems very shortsighted
[/quote]

Whilst I am certainly not advocating Arbeloa for CB, one of three you mentioned was injured yesterday and it wasnt Agger
[/quote]

And if that is a problem would it not therefore be best to get rid of someone who wants to leave, isn't a particularly good centre back, isn't really desperately needed elsewhere and spend the money on cover in the centre?
[/quote]

I think your post, if you read it back, was suggesting that we didnt need CB cover. And as I said Im certainly NOT suggesting that Arbeloa be used as a CB. I still have nightmares about his last appearance there.
[/quote]

I did say that yeah, and I do still believe that. But clearly if one of our centre backs picks up an injury in pre-season then I'd revise that opinion!!


[/quote]

I think you might need to revise it!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5449619,00.html

[/quote]

In that case we really should get rid of Arbeloa. He's not effective cover at centre back and just having Carra and Agger would cause more potential problems than possibly having to play Darby at RB a few times.

Centre backs are much more important than full backs
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910896#msg910896 date=1248350185]

We didn't have any better cover at right full back last year and that certainly wasn't why we didn't win the title.

[/quote]

That's because for the most part, Arbeloa stayed clear of injuries. Had he have gotten injured for a couple months, we'd have been in trouble.
 
He was also dead and buried towards the end of the season.

Expecting Johnson to do the same in a debut season is a big ask.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910874#msg910874 date=1248348518]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=34869.msg910868#msg910868 date=1248348360]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910866#msg910866 date=1248348264]
If the offer's going to be around £2-3M I'd rather he stayed.

If it's around the £6-8M mark we should sell.
[/quote]

What if it's £4-5M? 8)
[/quote]

I'd be inclined to keep unless we had someone lined up to come in and compete with Johnson.

Degen doesn't look very impressive at all.
[/quote]

Yeah I pretty much agree with you. Up to £4M keep, £5M+ sell if he doesn't want to sign an extension.

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910875#msg910875 date=1248348584]

Would you pay £2-3M to take a back up right back on loan for a year? That is essentially what we would be doing
[/quote]

It's not that simple. We have to stay tough and not sell our players on the cheap or we'll get raped again and again.
 
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=34869.msg910906#msg910906 date=1248350963]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910874#msg910874 date=1248348518]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=34869.msg910868#msg910868 date=1248348360]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910866#msg910866 date=1248348264]
If the offer's going to be around £2-3M I'd rather he stayed.

If it's around the £6-8M mark we should sell.
[/quote]

What if it's £4-5M? 8)
[/quote]

I'd be inclined to keep unless we had someone lined up to come in and compete with Johnson.

Degen doesn't look very impressive at all.
[/quote]

Yeah I pretty much agree with you. Up to £4M keep, £5M+ sell if he doesn't want to sign an extension.

[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910875#msg910875 date=1248348584]

Would you pay £2-3M to take a back up right back on loan for a year? That is essentially what we would be doing
[/quote]

It's not that simple. We have to stay tough and not sell our players on the cheap or we'll get raped again and again.
[/quote]

Yep, because we'll all feel dead proud of ourselves next summer when he walks away for nothing won't we?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg910902#msg910902 date=1248350441]
He was also dead and buried towards the end of the season.

Expecting Johnson to do the same in a debut season is a big ask.
[/quote]

This is true, but I am afraid I still cannot justify having a player refusing to sign a deal but not selling him because we might need him and don't trust the other players we have in that position.
If you get into that situation something is seriously wrong!

If Arbeloa stays chances are it will be for one year and then he leaves for nothing, and we would still need to buy a new right back, because I assume you would still say that Degen and Darby are not good enough (given that with Arbeloa here they would have no chance to prove they are good enough or improve).

However, if we sell now, we can try to buy someone who could provide decent cover, and if we are lucky could play in the centre if needed to as well. Then we won't have a similar debate next summer.

And while we are at it we may as well bin Degen and Darby if there really is no hope for them.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910907#msg910907 date=1248351066]

Yep, because we'll all feel dead proud of ourselves next summer when he walks away for nothing won't we?
[/quote]

Rather he walks for free next summer than sell him for peanuts now. ~£3M for a spanish international is a disgrace even if he only has a year left.
 
We bought him for what 2m? 3m? We probably get a competent player to do an equally good job across the line for about that much. If we can get anywhere between 6-8m, we should sell him and use the money to get a committed squad replacement.
 
You'll never get a CL and EPL proven RB/LB for the 2-3m, let alone one that's up to speed with our defensive approach.

It really comes down to who else is on the way out / in. If Dossena really is going or we choose not to bring in another experienced CH as examples then 2-3m for an insurance policy is a small price to pay IMO.
 
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=34869.msg910922#msg910922 date=1248352346]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910907#msg910907 date=1248351066]

Yep, because we'll all feel dead proud of ourselves next summer when he walks away for nothing won't we?
[/quote]

Rather he walks for free next summer than sell him for peanuts now. ~£3M for a spanish international is a disgrace even if he only has a year left.
[/quote]

Er, ok. So you would keep a player as cover and then choose to dip into whatever fund we have next year (which won't be huge and will probably be needed for other areas) to replace him purely on a point of principle?
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910940#msg910940 date=1248354512]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=34869.msg910922#msg910922 date=1248352346]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=34869.msg910907#msg910907 date=1248351066]

Yep, because we'll all feel dead proud of ourselves next summer when he walks away for nothing won't we?
[/quote]

Rather he walks for free next summer than sell him for peanuts now. ~£3M for a spanish international is a disgrace even if he only has a year left.
[/quote]

Er, ok. So you would keep a player as cover and then choose to dip into whatever fund we have next year (which won't be huge and will probably be needed for other areas) to replace him purely on a point of principle?
[/quote]

We can take it out of the premier league winnings money.
 
Why would we sell Arbeloa when we could be challenging for a premier league trophy?

I agree that we have a fair amount of depth in the backline. If Glen Johnson were to see and injury, however, Arbeloa would be our best option. If either Insua has an injury or sees a run of poor form, Arbeloa is certainly an improvement over Aurellio or Dossena.

Even if he is just a squad player, he saves us in the event of injury and challenges both Johnson and Insua for their places. Selling him for 5-10 million isn't worth losing that.
 
It's not worth selling him for a couple mill, however if Arbeloa is clearly intent on seeing out his contract and we get a good offer of 5M+, we should sell. We could get a reasonable replacement for that.
 
[quote author=KingDing link=topic=34869.msg913291#msg913291 date=1248773334]
[1001 BST: Liverpool defender Alvaro Arbeloa says he is close to completing a transfer to Spanish giants Real Madrid. (Marca)/quote]
Click to expand...

groan... 🙁
 
They've just reported this on the radio. Apparently everything agreed (no fee mentioned) and deal to go through by end of the week.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=34869.msg913311#msg913311 date=1248774630]
They've just reported this on the radio. Apparently everything agreed (no fee mentioned) and deal to go through by end of the week.
[/quote]

fuck it.
 
I've never rated him. Average defensivley and poor going forward. Decent squad player but if we make a small profit on him I'll be made up.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg913322#msg913322 date=1248775087]
I hoped we could keep him

We'll need a replacement.
[/quote]

I'm starting to think rafa is going to pass on defensive strengthening (using cover we already have) and concentrate on the attack and midfield. hence trying out johnson at left midfield.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=34869.msg913322#msg913322 date=1248775087]
I hoped we could keep him

We'll need a replacement.
[/quote]

Degen? 😱
 
I think it was clear he was going to leave... shame really, he was a good player for us and Rafa's biggest success in the fullback position so far (although that's saying very little). Hope we were able to get a good fee.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=34869.msg913400#msg913400 date=1248779140]
4M Euros apparently.
Parry is useless
[/quote]

The Parry stuff was funny about 5 years ago.
 
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