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Aqualani..Keane part 2

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[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=38040.msg1019952#msg1019952 date=1261531366]
I truly believe that Aquilani will fall into this trap - very fine player when given a little bit of time on the ball but never struck me as someone who would do well in the physical, faster english league.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of that post, but not this bit - I think Aquilani needs as little time on the ball, if not less, than Gerrard and Torres. He's very quick-witted and willing to play a fast and clever ball.

The potential problem with him, as far as I can see, is that most players we have (perhaps even Gerrard) will struggle to be clever enough to play with him. The only one that seems to understand him is Yossi.

Obviously I accept that I'm basing this on very little game time.
 
I'm not convinced at all, as I don't think a lot of players he's signed would look good in any league. Not many of our ex-players are excelling, are they?

Like Gene I think we've taken this 'attention to detail' nonsense and applied it to every facet of his management, when the evidence points to a different conclusion. I think he believes that his tactics come before the players he has on the pitch, and he can achieve success, in a way, regardless of who's wearing the red shirt. Maybe the success of 2005 went to his head a bit? Or the fact that he didn't have to build his Valancia squad? I don't know, but there's been too many mistakes for me to believe it's the result of serious analysis.

Sure, 'every manager makes mistakes', but there's only so long I can hear the name 'Veron', or Shevchenko, and then observe as Chelsea or United go on to lift the title.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38040.msg1020053#msg1020053 date=1261559275]
I'm generally persuaded by that post Wizardry, but... what makes you think Dossena would be a success in Spain? They have lots of quick technical players, while Doss is fat and slow and not particularly skilful. It's rather damning to Serie A that he did well there.

I think he'd be ace in the local Sunday pub league however.

[/quote]

Did Dossena do well there ?

Who had ever heard of him before we were linked ?
 
I think he had 'forced his way into the Italian team' while at Udinese, which may have meant the useless tubby cunt won a few caps due to Grosso being injured and/or 34
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38040.msg1020242#msg1020242 date=1261596941]
I think he had 'forced his way into the Italian team' while at Udinese, which may have meant the useless tubby cunt won a few caps due to Grosso being injured and/or 34
[/quote]

And to think we were all made up at the time for signing an Italian international defender!
 
Rafael Benitez can

He can also find you a fat Argentinian defender who can't defend, a Midfielder who can't pass a ball and has no brain, a 6 foot 7 striker who can't head a ball, a 20m striker he has no idea where or how to play, and a Brazilian midfielder who can't actually play football at all
He's a fucking genius
 
It's Xmas, Ross - laugh

And you know what, Xmas aside, I have long given up on this season, and by extension, Benitez himself. I just can't be arsed getting irate anymore

I know I've always had my bete noires, the players I've loved to hate, but this squad has so many of them, it's almost surreal.

That team against Pompey.

I mean, really. Really?

Insua? Drossena? That cunt Lucas?

Fuck you
 
He can also find you the best striker on the planet, A goalkeeper equal to any other, a small Argentinian midfielder who tackles like a demon, and a young Danish CB who despite his low cost, looks an outstanding player.

You're right, he is a fucking genius.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020259#msg1020259 date=1261602038]
He can also find you the best striker on the planet, A goalkeeper equal to any other, a small Argentinian midfielder who tackles like a demon, and a young Danish CB who despite his low cost, looks an outstanding player.

You're right, he is a fucking genius.
[/quote]

What's the point of this defense exactly? If he doesn't get us winning, soon, he won't be around for much longer, and it'll be down to his failures in the transfer market, whatever the context.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38040.msg1020260#msg1020260 date=1261602154]
Yes, the relatively unknown, £20m world-famous Torres and Mascherano

I had never heard of them
[/quote]

Don't belittle what were two fantastic signings please Bren.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38040.msg1020261#msg1020261 date=1261602318]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020259#msg1020259 date=1261602038]
He can also find you the best striker on the planet, A goalkeeper equal to any other, a small Argentinian midfielder who tackles like a demon, and a young Danish CB who despite his low cost, looks an outstanding player.

You're right, he is a fucking genius.
[/quote]

What's the point of this defense exactly? If he doesn't get us winning, soon, he won't be around for much longer, and it'll be down to his failures in the transfer market, whatever the context.
[/quote]

Just putting the other side of the argument across.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020264#msg1020264 date=1261602488]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38040.msg1020261#msg1020261 date=1261602318]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020259#msg1020259 date=1261602038]
He can also find you the best striker on the planet, A goalkeeper equal to any other, a small Argentinian midfielder who tackles like a demon, and a young Danish CB who despite his low cost, looks an outstanding player.

You're right, he is a fucking genius.
[/quote]

What's the point of this defense exactly? If he doesn't get us winning, soon, he won't be around for much longer, and it'll be down to his failures in the transfer market, whatever the context.
[/quote]

Just putting the other side of the argument across.


[/quote]

Benitez has made some great buys, including some sensible cheap buys as well as expensive.

He's also made a slew of errors, and the costliest ones are all recent, and it will probably cost him his job.

There's your balance, free of having to make an argument no one believes for a second.
 
In terms of 'lessons leaned' from the whole Benitez project, I think the most salient for me is that fat players tend to be slow.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38040.msg1020265#msg1020265 date=1261602813]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020264#msg1020264 date=1261602488]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38040.msg1020261#msg1020261 date=1261602318]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020259#msg1020259 date=1261602038]
He can also find you the best striker on the planet, A goalkeeper equal to any other, a small Argentinian midfielder who tackles like a demon, and a young Danish CB who despite his low cost, looks an outstanding player.

You're right, he is a fucking genius.
[/quote]

What's the point of this defense exactly? If he doesn't get us winning, soon, he won't be around for much longer, and it'll be down to his failures in the transfer market, whatever the context.
[/quote]

Just putting the other side of the argument across.


[/quote]

Benitez has made some great buys, including some sensible cheap buys as well as expensive.

He's also made a slew of errors, and the costliest ones are all recent, and it will probably cost him his job.

There's your balance, free of having to make an argument no one believes for a second.
[/quote]

I'd tend to agree with most of that Farky.

It should also be noted of course that the lack of willingness to invest in players by our owners, has also played a significant part in our (Rafa's) problems this season.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020274#msg1020274 date=1261604625]
It should also be noted of course that the lack of willingness to invest in players by our owners, has also played a significant part in our (Rafa's) problems this season.

[/quote]

That's why I said "whatever the context".

When tasked with being a bit more "creative", i.e. we'll give you two bits of fuck all this year, now buy some players, he bought a right back with the majority of the money, and made a risky gamble on a midfielder which he doesn't seem to know how to bed in and play. He passed up all sorts of opportunities for player exchanges with Real Madrid, and other more reasonable solutions.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=38040.msg1020285#msg1020285 date=1261605917]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38040.msg1020274#msg1020274 date=1261604625]
It should also be noted of course that the lack of willingness to invest in players by our owners, has also played a significant part in our (Rafa's) problems this season.

[/quote]

That's why I said "whatever the context".

When tasked with being a bit more "creative", i.e. we'll give you two bits of fuck all this year, now buy some players, he bought a right back with the majority of the money, and made a risky gamble on a midfielder which he doesn't seem to know how to bed in and play. He passed up all sorts of opportunities for player exchanges with Real Madrid, and other more reasonable solutions.
[/quote]

Well thats assuming that Rafa knew exactly what he had available from the start of the summer. If he knew what he had to spend and then went out and signed Magic then of course i'd agree with you, but the fact is we don't know this was the case.

Who were all of these Real players that we passed up the chance of signing (genuine question)?

Buying Aquilani has certainly backfired short term, but still he could turn out to be a real gem and well worth the wait.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38040.msg1020288#msg1020288 date=1261606253]
I thought it was rumoured to be the other way round - that the owners wanted the cash.
[/quote]

It was.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38040.msg1020288#msg1020288 date=1261606253]
I thought it was rumoured to be the other way round - that the owners wanted the cash.
[/quote]

Yea, maybe that is so, and I definitely think there is also something off about the Johnson thing, and have always said so. But I was responding to you presenting a side of the argument that says Rafa is a genius with transfers, which, as you knew at the time, doesn't make sense.

Regarding the player transfers, the owners definitely wanted the money back up to a certain figure, rather than a transfer, however what would the difference be between selling 30M and buying 20M, or selling 30M and getting 10M and a player? Is it just that the 20M is deferred over time?
 
I believe we only put down 5M on Aquilani up front, so they got to keep the majority of the Alonso fee and do with it whatever they needed to do (did we demand that to be paid up front in full? I remember reading something along those lines).

Anyways, yeah... there isn't really much point in arguing the merits of his transfer policy right now when it's landed us deep in the shit.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38040.msg1020330#msg1020330 date=1261609058]
Anyways, yeah... there isn't really much point in arguing the merits of his transfer policy right now when it's landed us deep in the shit.
[/quote]
Yea, I should have just left it at that.

The details aren't that enjoyable to thinka bout.
 
I don't really think Rafa is a genius when it comes to transfers Farky, it was just in response to Bren's equally one sided post. Allthough i do believe that his record is a lot better in this area than what many give him credit for.

Since Rafa has been with us, i think his record stands up to nearly any other managers in the league (apart from Wengers maybe).
 
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