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Anyone else see any irony in the captain applauding the protest yesterday?

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Woland

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I mean each of the two thousand people at the sit in paid about 40 quid just to get in. Even if you took those 2000 £40s and stuck them all in a brown paper bag and offered him that to play, it's not enough. He'd need another 1000 to get involved just to pay this week's wages.

I'm sure he and all the other players want new owners, because they've got islands to buy and space tourism to book.

There's an incoherent thread on here talking about the buy out which that even if there is a profit in the business pre interest payments, it's pretty damn small and as a ratio to turnover is pathetic. There's a single reason for that - the wage bill, the colossal amounts that the players bleed from the game.

There was a time I used to idolise the fuckers, back when I was a kid. Then I came to point where I just wanted my eleven dickheads to beat their eleven dickheads, but now I just see them as one of the the chief causes of the slow death of this and many other football clubs.

Prove me wrong, help me to hate the bastards less.
 
I don't think you can really blame Gerrard for taking the money that he is being offered. It is apparently the going rate of renumeration for a world class player to recieve. As a fan you would of course play and captain your team for free but you would be a fool to turn down the money you are being offered, even if it was an outrageous amount as per all premiership profession footballer's wages.

To be fair I think we are all part of the problem. We are the ones that pay the subscriptions to sky that fund the outrageous cost of TV rights, that rabidly consume every column inch in the newspapers which helps attract the sponsors to football, that brings the huge incomes to clubs that filter into player wages.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=42049.msg1182893#msg1182893 date=1285498371]
I don't think you can really blame Gerrard for taking the money that he is being offered. It is apparently the going rate of renumeration for a world class player to recieve. As a fan you would of course play and captain your team for free but you would be a fool to turn down the money you are being offered, even if it was an outrageous amount as per all premiership profession footballer's wages.

To be fair I think we are all part of the problem. We are the ones that pay the subscriptions to sky that fund the outrageous cost of TV rights, that rabidly consume every column inch in the newspapers which helps attract the sponsors to football, that brings the huge incomes to clubs that filter into player wages.


[/quote]
Correct
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=42049.msg1182893#msg1182893 date=1285498371]
I don't think you can really blame Gerrard for taking the money that he is being offered. It is apparently the going rate of renumeration for a world class player to recieve. As a fan you would of course play and captain your team for free but you would be a fool to turn down the money you are being offered, even if it was an outrageous amount as per all premiership profession footballer's wages.

To be fair I think we are all part of the problem. We are the ones that pay the subscriptions to sky that fund the outrageous cost of TV rights, that rabidly consume every column inch in the newspapers which helps attract the sponsors to football, that brings the huge incomes to clubs that filter into player wages.


[/quote]

I think I agree with the bulk of that, we have all been complicit in letting this happen... however the individual who takes over 6m a year for services to the club is a larger part of it than me, and really hasn't got a leg to stand on when wanting to show that he's worried about the future financial situation of the club.
 
So how do you feel about Rafa's six million to fuck off then Crump ?

Cos he cared for the club.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42049.msg1182902#msg1182902 date=1285498827]
So how do you feel about Rafa's six million to fuck off then Crump ?

Cos he cared for the club.
[/quote]

This is one of the reasons I think Rafa is a massive twat. Obviously his achievements were great, the CL was awesome - but the way he left stinks.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1182900#msg1182900 date=1285498756]
[quote author=the count link=topic=42049.msg1182893#msg1182893 date=1285498371]
I don't think you can really blame Gerrard for taking the money that he is being offered. It is apparently the going rate of renumeration for a world class player to recieve. As a fan you would of course play and captain your team for free but you would be a fool to turn down the money you are being offered, even if it was an outrageous amount as per all premiership profession footballer's wages.

To be fair I think we are all part of the problem. We are the ones that pay the subscriptions to sky that fund the outrageous cost of TV rights, that rabidly consume every column inch in the newspapers which helps attract the sponsors to football, that brings the huge incomes to clubs that filter into player wages.


[/quote]

I think I agree with the bulk of that, we have all been complicit in letting this happen... however the individual who takes over 6m a year for services to the club is a larger part of it than me, and really hasn't got a leg to stand on when wanting to show that he's worried about the future financial situation of the club.
[/quote]

Or perhaps he doesn't associate the £6m he earns as contributing to the finincial woes at the club because if he wasn't doing it then some other, probably lesser, player would be getting it in his place. A bit of a kop out I know but none the less accurate.
Perhaps as a fan as well as a player he was applauding the the efforts of the supporters, and approving of the removal of the current regime in order to allow the club he loves move forwards rather than backwards.

As an aside, if we do have to pay outrageous sums of money to our players, and we clearly do, then I would prefer if that money went to players who give one hundred percent to the cause of the team on and preferably off the pitch.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42049.msg1182902#msg1182902 date=1285498827]
So how do you feel about Rafa's six million to fuck off then Crump ?

Cos he cared for the club.
[/quote]

So how do you feel about Ged and his coaching staff included Thomson and Lee got compensated over 10M to fuck off when they actually had only one year contract left.

Cos they cared for the club. And legends at the same time!
 
Money is ruining and corrupting the whole game.

Sometimes I believe I'm on the verge of not giving a fuck anymore and simply watch some amateur football instead. At least there's passion, idealism and almost everything else that you love about football.

But then I find myself again ruining days, nights and whole weekends with anger, desparation etc. all in the know that the twats who are responsible for this don't even care. Worse, I even pay them for it.

Fuck professional football (until Friday).
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42049.msg1182924#msg1182924 date=1285502081]
Money is ruining and corrupting the whole game.

Sometimes I believe I'm on the verge of not giving a fuck anymore and simply watch some amateur football instead. At least there's passion, idealism and almost everything else that you love about football.

But then I find myself again ruining days, nights and whole weekends with anger, desparation etc. all in the know that the twats who are responsible for this don't even care. Worse, I even pay them for it.

Fuck professional football (until Friday).
[/quote]

From the Official:

AFC Liverpool recorded the biggest win in their history as they thumped Eccleshall 7-0 on Saturday afternoon.

The Reds went into the game on the back of a seven match unbeaten run and always looked like extending that once Callum Tai-Hogan had opened the scoring with a poacher's goal inside 60 seconds.

Karl Gornell then struck a brace to ensure the visitors were firmly in control at the interval before Joseph Gibbons and an own goal by Shore put the result beyond doubt.

Scott McNair then fired in a late double to rub salt in the hosts' wounds and write a new chapter in AFC history.


* Don't you mean Thursday? Thats our next match 🙂
 
most players are grossly over paid but of all the these over paid players, gerrard is one of the few to play for us who is worth it

between his shirt sales over the years and whatever other incomes his presence gives us and his performances on the pitch dragging us into europe or winning the fa cup - he has almost certainly made the club more than he has taken
 
All these petty pot shots on player wages of modern footballers is bit silly IMO...

If you had the talent that made millions of people watch you, i'm sure you would expect to get paid similar amount. After all movie-stars get paid as much or even more.

They deserve every penny, and this is really a pointless thread.
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=42049.msg1182924#msg1182924 date=1285502081]
Money is ruining and corrupting the whole game.

Sometimes I believe I'm on the verge of not giving a fuck anymore and simply watch some amateur football instead. At least there's passion, idealism and almost everything else that you love about football.

But then I find myself again ruining days, nights and whole weekends with anger, desparation etc. all in the know that the twats who are responsible for this don't even care. Worse, I even pay them for it.

Fuck professional football (until Friday).
[/quote]

This ^.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42049.msg1182964#msg1182964 date=1285507633]
All these petty pot shots on player wages of modern footballers is bit silly IMO...

If you had the talent that made millions of people watch you, i'm sure you would expect to get paid similar amount. After all movie-stars get paid as much or even more.

They deserve every penny, and this is really a pointless thread.
[/quote]

No they don't. Like bollocks they do. What a quite pathetic statement. We are not talking about League Two players here.

And although I agree with the first paragraph of Count's post above, I profoundly disagree with him on the second - that bit about the issue also being partly the fans to blame.

The players, as per any good entertainer, should get paid a decent income, which would translate to vast riches to the great majority of people. But it certainly doesn't mean they should be earning 20k, 30k, 40k and upwards per week (not per match even, and this doesn't take into consideration bonuses and marketing), or that movie stars should be paid in the millions per film - when, to fund those ridiculous payments, it is the general population that have to dig deep into their pockets.

However the paying public have virtually no say in how much they have to pay to watch a game, buy a shirt, take in a movie or for virtually any other modern sport or entertainment media (DVD's, Blu-Ray, HD & video games are high on my list of rip-off merchants too) where the spectators have to pay for entry / to watch. As a % of average income this continues to rise disproportionately because the vultures are now demanding far more than their pound of flesh.

The entertainment industry is truly sick and what they indulge in would be called profiteering in any other generation of our recent past. I have zero sympathy with their bleating about wages & piracy (there are exceptions of course, new bands, low budget films etc. but they are in the minority since it is the cream of the football, movie and sports industries that are fleecing us left right and centre) or anything else related to their income or profit margins. Now excuse me whilst I go, get my vaseline, & bend over for the next one.
 
I read a while back that, even with inflation taken into account, when John Barnes got his 'big' contract in the late 80's, it equates to less than what an average 3rd choice Premiership goalkeeper would currently get.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=42049.msg1182972#msg1182972 date=1285509667]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42049.msg1182964#msg1182964 date=1285507633]
All these petty pot shots on player wages of modern footballers is bit silly IMO...

If you had the talent that made millions of people watch you, i'm sure you would expect to get paid similar amount. After all movie-stars get paid as much or even more.

They deserve every penny, and this is really a pointless thread.
[/quote]

No they don't. Like bollocks they do. What a quite pathetic statement. We are not talking about League Two players here.

And although I agree with the first paragraph of Count's post above, I profoundly disagree with him on the second - that bit about the issue also being partly the fans to blame.

The players, as per any good entertainer, should get paid a decent income, which would translate to vast riches to the great majority of people. But it certainly doesn't mean they should be earning 20k, 30k, 40k and upwards per week (not per match even, and this doesn't take into consideration bonuses and marketing), or that movie stars should be paid in the millions per film - when, to fund those ridiculous payments, it is the general population that have to dig deep into their pockets.

However the paying public have virtually no say in how much they have to pay to watch a game, buy a shirt, take in a movie or for virtually any other modern sport or entertainment media (DVD's, Blu-Ray, HD & video games are high on my list of rip-off merchants too) where the spectators have to pay for entry / to watch. As a % of average income this continues to rise disproportionately because the vultures are now demanding far more than their pound of flesh.

The entertainment industry is truly sick and what they indulge in would be called profiteering in any other generation of our recent past. I have zero sympathy with their bleating about wages & piracy (there are exceptions of course, new bands, low budget films etc. but they are in the minority since it is the cream of the football, movie and sports industries that are fleecing us left right and centre) or anything else related to their income or profit margins. Now excuse me whilst I go, get my vaseline, & bend over for the next one.
[/quote]

A point to add to this is that even if you don't think it's morally questionable, the numbers don't stack up anyway.

You could only even make the point dispassionately, that they earn every penny, if Barca, Madrid, Inter, Milan, Manure, Chelsea, Citeh and us weren't losing money. The fact that all the biggest clubs around bar Arsenal are haemorrhaging cash shows that the race to feed these egos with bigger and bigger contracts doesn't make financial sense, and despite the increased costs to watch each match, the stars certainly don't earn their money.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=42049.msg1182972#msg1182972 date=1285509667]

However the paying public have virtually no say in how much they have to pay to watch a game, buy a shirt, take in a movie or for virtually any other modern sport or entertainment media (DVD's, Blu-Ray, HD & video games are high on my list of rip-off merchants too) where the spectators have to pay for entry / to watch. As a % of average income this continues to rise disproportionately because the vultures are now demanding far more than their pound of flesh.

The entertainment industry is truly sick and what they indulge in would be called profiteering in any other generation of our recent past. I have zero sympathy with their bleating about wages & piracy (there are exceptions of course, new bands, low budget films etc. but they are in the minority since it is the cream of the football, movie and sports industries that are fleecing us left right and centre) or anything else related to their income or profit margins. Now excuse me whilst I go, get my vaseline, & bend over for the next one.
[/quote]

If significent numbers of people stopped paying their subscriptions to Sky, Espn etc, stopped buying those football shirts that start of priced £45 and end up for sale in the barging bin for a tenner, stopped paying over the top ticket prices to go to matches........
what do you think wouuld happen Froggy?
 
Re: The initial question...

Not really, no. SG has, for about a decade now, been the Herat and soul of this club, more often than not having to perform his magic surrounded by many players quite simply not fit to wear the shirt. He's been a magnicient servant to the club and when it's all said and done, he will go down as one of our all-time great players.

For me, to find issue with him applauding the fans' protest yesterday, is simplylooking for a reason to moan about him (which you do somewhat cop to with your "help me hate him less" comment).

And if you (anybody) think money is killing the game, unfortunately your only option is to not buy your tickets for the matches, not buy any official club merchandise and not to subscribe to the TV channels that keep it that way. Otherwise, you (and all of us) are just feeding the beast you claim to resent.
 
I am proud that our club has a Captain like Stevie G. His love for the club, and his ability to drag it through rain and storm alone at times is extremely admireable. That our club has the power to reward him half of what i.e Yaya Toure is rewarded for Man City is just right. He deserves it.
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183032#msg1183032 date=1285518844]
Re: The initial question...

Not really, no. SG has, for about a decade now, been the Herat and soul of this club, more often than not having to perform his magic surrounded by many players quite simply not fit to wear the shirt. He's been a magnicient servant to the club and when it's all said and done, he will go down as one of our all-time great players.
[/quote]

So? Look at the list of legends who didn't have contracts that threaten to bankrupt us.
 
The players certainly deserve to be paid incredibly well. They have a career which sacrifices other salable careers in the process, and it's an incredibly unstable, short-lived, lottery, where one injury could destroy them.

That said, wage inflation as we've seen, is unsustainable at this point, and there are a number of different factors for this.

Gerrard isn't the best example though. I think he's worth what he's getting, or at least he should be making more than almost anyone else in the league. As for the irony of him supporting the protest, I don't really see it. Maybe if they were protesting ticket prices I'd see it.
 
The protest was about our inability to reinvest in the squad, thus our inability to compete, and while this is hugely down to the yanks business model, the #1 drain on football clubs everywhere including ours is the wage bill.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1183017#msg1183017 date=1285514805]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=42049.msg1182972#msg1182972 date=1285509667]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42049.msg1182964#msg1182964 date=1285507633]
All these petty pot shots on player wages of modern footballers is bit silly IMO...

If you had the talent that made millions of people watch you, i'm sure you would expect to get paid similar amount. After all movie-stars get paid as much or even more.

They deserve every penny, and this is really a pointless thread.
[/quote]

No they don't. Like bollocks they do. What a quite pathetic statement. We are not talking about League Two players here.

And although I agree with the first paragraph of Count's post above, I profoundly disagree with him on the second - that bit about the issue also being partly the fans to blame.

The players, as per any good entertainer, should get paid a decent income, which would translate to vast riches to the great majority of people. But it certainly doesn't mean they should be earning 20k, 30k, 40k and upwards per week (not per match even, and this doesn't take into consideration bonuses and marketing), or that movie stars should be paid in the millions per film - when, to fund those ridiculous payments, it is the general population that have to dig deep into their pockets.

However the paying public have virtually no say in how much they have to pay to watch a game, buy a shirt, take in a movie or for virtually any other modern sport or entertainment media (DVD's, Blu-Ray, HD & video games are high on my list of rip-off merchants too) where the spectators have to pay for entry / to watch. As a % of average income this continues to rise disproportionately because the vultures are now demanding far more than their pound of flesh.

The entertainment industry is truly sick and what they indulge in would be called profiteering in any other generation of our recent past. I have zero sympathy with their bleating about wages & piracy (there are exceptions of course, new bands, low budget films etc. but they are in the minority since it is the cream of the football, movie and sports industries that are fleecing us left right and centre) or anything else related to their income or profit margins. Now excuse me whilst I go, get my vaseline, & bend over for the next one.
[/quote]

A point to add to this is that even if you don't think it's morally questionable, the numbers don't stack up anyway.

You could only even make the point dispassionately, that they earn every penny, if Barca, Madrid, Inter, Milan, Manure, Chelsea, Citeh and us weren't losing money. The fact that all the biggest clubs around bar Arsenal are haemorrhaging cash shows that the race to feed these egos with bigger and bigger contracts doesn't make financial sense, and despite the increased costs to watch each match, the stars certainly don't earn their money.
[/quote]

This is certainly a valid point.

As long as the clubs remain profitable - the prices the charge for the ticket and how they spend it in the form of wages etc is entirely up to them.

That is my take on it. As long as they are able to find 50,000 people to come and watch the game live paying X$ and millions of people turn on the tv and watch them for 90 minutes every week paying X$, everything is justifiable. These are "repeat customers" we are talking about. The holy grail of the corporate world. If because of their talent they are able to spin that kind of money in the world, then they deserve to get the Lion's share of it. Who else do you want the money to go to ....the suits?

Who are we to stand and argue that what they get paid is a ransom? If we don't like it, then we should stop watching the game. Stop paying X$. These are the rules.....either we fit in or fall out.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1183034#msg1183034 date=1285519693]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183032#msg1183032 date=1285518844]
Re: The initial question...

Not really, no. SG has, for about a decade now, been the Herat and soul of this club, more often than not having to perform his magic surrounded by many players quite simply not fit to wear the shirt. He's been a magnicient servant to the club and when it's all said and done, he will go down as one of our all-time great players.
[/quote]

So? Look at the list of legends who didn't have contracts that threaten to bankrupt us.
[/quote]

Were Kenny and Rushie and Digger and all the rest of our superstars back then not amoung the games best paid players..?The best players get the highest wages - That's always been the way. Are you critical of them too?
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183058#msg1183058 date=1285522981]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1183034#msg1183034 date=1285519693]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183032#msg1183032 date=1285518844]
Re: The initial question...

Not really, no. SG has, for about a decade now, been the Herat and soul of this club, more often than not having to perform his magic surrounded by many players quite simply not fit to wear the shirt. He's been a magnicient servant to the club and when it's all said and done, he will go down as one of our all-time great players.
[/quote]

So? Look at the list of legends who didn't have contracts that threaten to bankrupt us.
[/quote]

Were Kenny and Rushie and Digger and all the rest of our superstars back then not amoung the games best paid players..?The best players get the highest wages - That's always been the way. Are you critical of them too?
[/quote]

The going rate wasn't crippling the club. I remember walking away from the ground with my uncle moaning on that Dalglish was getting paid £70,000 a year - we must have drawn or something - and that was over 10 times what he got at Fords and that was with him doing every bit of overtime he could get. I remember it so well because I couldn't effing believe it... I was like - woah - he gets nearly 1500 a week to do what I want to do - that's sooooo cool.

I wouldn't begrudge Gerrard 10 or 20 times the average wage, but he currently earns 250 of them.
 
Football clubs do have to be managed more sensibly, that's a given,

But ultimately the money generated by the game should go to players, because they are the star attractions.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1183064#msg1183064 date=1285524207]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183058#msg1183058 date=1285522981]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42049.msg1183034#msg1183034 date=1285519693]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42049.msg1183032#msg1183032 date=1285518844]
Re: The initial question...

Not really, no. SG has, for about a decade now, been the Herat and soul of this club, more often than not having to perform his magic surrounded by many players quite simply not fit to wear the shirt. He's been a magnicient servant to the club and when it's all said and done, he will go down as one of our all-time great players.
[/quote]

So? Look at the list of legends who didn't have contracts that threaten to bankrupt us.
[/quote]

Were Kenny and Rushie and Digger and all the rest of our superstars back then not amoung the games best paid players..?The best players get the highest wages - That's always been the way. Are you critical of them too?
[/quote]

The going rate wasn't crippling the club. I remember walking away from the ground with my uncle moaning on that Dalglish was getting paid £70,000 a year - we must have drawn or something - and that was over 10 times what he got at Fords and that was with him doing every bit of overtime he could get. I remember it so well because I couldn't effing believe it... I was like - woah - he gets nearly 1500 a week to do what I want to do - that's sooooo cool.

I wouldn't begrudge Gerrard 10 or 20 times the average wage, but he currently earns 250 of them.
[/quote]

Operationally - we are still profitable. The wage structure is not driving the club to bankruptcy.

The poor management is.

You don't have a point - re 10 time or 250 times. Who decides what is an acceptable norm? The average man is not making n million people drop everything for 90 minutes and watch him work.

You just sound like a jealous bloke.....
 
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