Allen

[keniget]

He's an excellent footballer, and played well today. But I understand the need for a scapegoat, so thankfully he missed that chance, otherwise we'd be forced to analyse why we conceded 3 and could have conceded 20.

Indeed.

I was furious with that miss but the way in which we played was even more disappointing. Let's analyze why we looked so ropey. I'm interested in what everyone thinks. There are quite a few issues with this side - we could improve in the fullback areas, we need to settle on a centre-back pairing that can do better, Coutinho needs to re-establish himself in the side and then there is the midfield. I've been banging on about our midfield for what feels like an age now so it's clear where I think the root of our problems lie.

Against Everton there was a lot of sloppy play and our defenders did make more than a few mistakes between them. They were not helped by the impotent midfield (that includes all 5 of them) in front of them who struggled to assert themselves for large parts of the game. It was very frustrating to see us look to play the ball out to Suarez - marked by 3-4 Everton defenders - simply because we were unable to play our way out of our own half.

So - if Allen is worth persisting with and Lucas is supposedly good enough, what's the solution?

Do we need to bolster the attack?
Replace Gerrard?
Replace Enrique, Johnson or both?
Permanently replace Agger with Sakho?
All of the above?

What will it take for a team with a midfield axis of Lucas and Allen to be successful?

 

[localny]

Henderson just has more saving graces than the other purchases. Hardly a coming of the good. Allen's with us over a year. Still no sign of Xavi, the omens are not good.

 

[Piedro]

I can see me arguing for Allen with fucking everyone else at drinkies arguing against me.

Well, until I'm too drunk to effectively argue any longer anyway.

We aren't actually gonna talk about football at Drinkies are we? Fuck that!

 

[RedZeppelin III]

allen , lucas , henderson and maybe even gerrard these days are all the same for me . From 3 games you might get one good, one average and one shite performance. So all in all average .

And if they were really so good would each be debated so intensely and often ?

Actually you could say all of the above about most our team bar Suarez and maybe Sturridge . It's why our highest finish in the last 4 season has been 6th.

 

[Brizzle]

We aren't actually gonna talk about football at Drinkies are we? Fuck that!

Hopefully the only footy talk at Drinkies is that we all put money on Caulker to be FGS @ ~40/1 and are in the pub celebrating a 7-1 victory with lots of beer tokens!

 

[refugee]

What will it take for a team with a midfield axis of Lucas and Allen to be successful?

We could bribe the opposition.....

 

[nealmac]

Haha. If Henderson's current form is an example of Ryan's version of "coming good", I can't wait to see how Allen fairs out.

Henderson has improved, very slightly at best. He's nowhere near good enough to deserve a place in the team. Allen on the other hand, while Saturday definitely wasn't his worst performance in a red shirt, has done nothing to convince me he's going to be some sort of Messiah. At his best, he looks below average. Generally, he's fucking shit. Yes, he's had injury problems, but he's played enough games by now to show his worth. Frankly, I was chuffed when he was injured, as it meant I didn't have to worry about how he was going to fuck things up.

 

[Brizzle]

Slightly hyperbolic there Neal. Hendo IMO 100% deserves a place in the team, and that is because he puts in the work rate that Gerrard is now incapable of doing. And with Gerrard ability on deadballs/ killer balls, we need to keep him on the pitch in the absence of other match winners meaning we need a Hendo to support that.

 

[mark1975]

Slightly hyperbolic there Neal. Hendo IMO 100% deserves a place in the team, and that is because he puts in the work rate that Gerrard is now incapable of doing. And with Gerrard ability on deadballs/ killer balls, we need to keep him on the pitch in the absence of other match winners meaning we need a Hendo to support that.

It's over the top, but they're someway short of the quality we need. Like I said elsewhere, any one of the three could probably do well if we bring in a dominant midfielder, but asking Hendo/Lucas/Allen to be the sum of their parts isn't getting much in return, especially for a side that wants to play teams off the park, they're all ok but not quite good enough, non of them particularly excel at anything and need other/better players around them for their strengths and shortcomings to be worth persevering with.

While the squad isn't terrible, it's clear we're lacking dominate players through the middle of defense and midfield, it's not about making scapegoats, these players performances are symptomatic of our problems, because they're all too often stuck on the merry-go-round of inconsistent displays, it's why it's usually the same players getting it in the neck, because they're incapable of taking their first team place and the privilege of being out there on the pitch by the scruff of the neck.

So yeah, sorry if Allen got a bit of a shoeing after the game, but he's not the only one is he? Anyone of Henderson, Allen, Lucas, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger and whichever sorry left back we're playing, could easily bear the brunt of a regular roasting, for a reason. They're not quite good enough, and most of them have had long enough to prove it either way.

 

[Squiggles]

I'd be surprised to find Allen still here next season.

It's going to take a hell of a turnaround to prove he's good enough for a side with our ambitions.

 

[nealmac]

because he puts in the work rate that Gerrard is now incapable of doing

Like fuck he does.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Why is it that the few that rate Allen as an 'excellent footballer' or even a mere good player can't explain the reasons for coming to that conclusion.

Hes the definition of a nothing player, i wish he wasn't and really was a Xavi clone, maybe he is in some parallel universe but in this reality hes nothing but a bang average footballer.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Slightly hyperbolic there Neal. Hendo IMO 100% deserves a place in the team, and that is because he puts in the work rate that Gerrard is now incapable of doing. And with Gerrard ability on deadballs/ killer balls, we need to keep him on the pitch in the absence of other match winners meaning we need a Hendo to support that.

Henderson is in the team by default really because there isn't anyone else to challenge his place in the team, he has played well at times, hes ok and is a handy player to have in the squad but we really do need better, it arguable we need a whole new midfield.

 

[Judge Jules]

Every team needs workhorses, even if challenging for the title. IMO Henderson is good enough for that role now, and has potential to improve further.

 

[Modo]

What did Henderson actually do during the Everton game?

 

[SummerOnions]

What did Henderson actually do during the Everton game?

its telling that if you type jordan henderson into youtube the first suggestion is 'running'

 

[Markeh]

What did Henderson actually do during the Everton game?

Injured Leighton Baines, that's enough for me

 

[Modo]

Injured Leighton Baines, that's enough for me

I think that's when Delofeu got on the pitch. Made it worse then I guess.

its telling that if you type jordan henderson into youtube the first suggestion is 'running'

Pretty much. I just don't so why people are in such a hurry to get rid of Lucas while Henderson, who I still regard as a passenger, is still on the pitch.

 

[nealmac]

Right now, Henderson (who does have some good moments, to be fair) isn't good enough. Yes, he has improved somewhat over the past 12 months, but not enough. We need a better option.

Lucas is very hit and miss. Up until his injury, he was on a roll, and everything was going right for him. But he's lost all that. He's not consistent enough.

Allen is average. No, actually I'd go as far as to say, he's below average. In his entire spell at Anfield, he hasn't once shown me something that would even give me a glimmer of hope. Even Stewart fucking Downing, useless as he was, had the odd moment of brilliance where he'd shock us all by getting a dangerous cross in. I've waited long enough, Ryan. He can fuck right off.

 

[RedStar]

What will it take for a team with a midfield axis of Lucas and Allen to be successful?

I dont think they can play effectively in the same team, they are too similar in that they have all the same flaws which makes them pretty easy to pick apart. You cant have a 3 man midfield where 2 of those players are physically lightweight, never score and rarely cross the halfway line.

The other problem for me is that Allen is totally unsuited to playing alongside Gerrard. Stevies first instinct is always to look forward and try pick out a killer pass to a team mate running into space, even if its a hail mary effort. As a result he can give the ball away very cheaply at times but his game is about looking for the one punch knock out catching opponents off guard.In order for this to work he needs his team mates to be stretching the opposition with attacking runs off the defenders shoulder or giving him an option for a long diagonal pass into space.

On the other hand Allen does the exact opposite he plays further back and tries to work the ball up the pitch through a series of short passes mostly on the ground with players alternating positions, in order for this to be effective he needs people dropping into positions where they can interchange passes in quick succession and use the ball to work the opposition out of position. His range of passing is nothing like Gerrards but he is far more careful with the ball than Stevie is.

Henderson doesnt really do either one but he has assumed the role of designated runner to make up the ground that Gerrard can no longer cover. Henderson is ok at lots of things but not really great at anything, hes like a midfield version of Kuyt.

 

[mark1975]

What did Henderson actually do during the Everton game?

I dunno? What did he do in countless other games where he played well, harrassed the opposition, passed the ball well and supported the attack? Shall we dig out games where Lucas has done similar, or Joe Allen? (Soz, I forgot that their one dimensional games prevents them from getting a pass over half way).

Shall we find a game where one of them has played a pass like Henderson did for Suarez in the game against Fulham?

Everyone knows he's decent but not quite good enough, but his form doesn't justify your smugness of sitting their protecting Lucas and Allen, the epitome of mediocrity, while pointing out every game where Henderson fails to make a significant impact. I didn't see you saying the same about games against Newcastle or Arsenal last season, or Fulham two weeks ago, or plenty of other games where he's played well and offered a damn sight more than your two inexplicable favourties.

I think that's when Delofeu got on the pitch. Made it worse then I guess.

Typically obtuse there with your reckoning and reasoning for having a go. If you're that desperate it just shows (once again) what a sad little case you are.

 

[Modo]

I dunno? What did he do in countless other games where he played well, harrassed the opposition, passed the ball well and supported the attack? Shall we dig out games where Lucas has done similar, or Joe Allen? (Soz, I forgot that their one dimensional games prevents them from getting a pass over half way).

Shall we find a game where one of them has played a pass like Henderson did for Suarez in the game against Fulham?

Everyone knows he's decent but not quite good enough, but his form doesn't justify your smugness of sitting their protecting Lucas and Allen, the epitome of mediocrity, while pointing out every game where Henderson fails to make a significant impact. I didn't see you saying the same about games against Newcastle or Arsenal last season, or Fulham two weeks ago, or plenty of other games where he's played well and offered a damn sight more than your two inexplicable favourties.

I think that's when Delofeu got on the pitch. Made it worse then I guess.


Typically obtuse there with your reckoning and reasoning for having a go. If you're that desperate it just shows (once again) what a sad little case you are.

As said, shut up.

No I do give Henderson credit when it's due, but you however insist on criticising Lucas despite being one of the top performers last weekend.
And it's the same tired old thing as always, he gives away fouls etc. But I don't see you mentioning his two last ditch tackles against Everton, or the numerous amount of times he won the ball.

Your critique against Lucas is even more habitual than me criticising Henderson which pretty much started after that Arsenal game a few weeks ago.
Yes, he injured Baines and they brought on Delofeu who caused us a lot of trouble and would have scored twice if it wasn't for Mignolet.

Oh and the pass against Fulham, great pass. Did he even try one of those against Everton?
You can't refer to one incident and go, yeah that proves that he's good. He's clearly not. Well, not at the moment anyway and if we had another capable midfielder or winger in the squad he'd definitely be the first to go.

Another example is Johnson, one bad game and you're on his case...AGAIN. Of course I'm the one with the agenda.

You shut up.

 

[Glen C]

Hendo, lucas and allen are all average footballers who need replacing IMO. they're in the team because we have no one else. Hendo and lucas are good enough to keep in the squad to come on as a sub or when we have injuries. But allen is just poor and we need to get rid asap.

 

[red_maradona]

my overriding image of allen is him rushing out to press the oppo, but doing so in isolation and simply by-passed. either he is not following instructions or others aren't?

 

[irishred]

My overriding image is that he always seems like he`s passing the ball into a headwind regardless of the direction he's facing.

 

[Modo]

 

[kingjulian]

Sure we can do better than Allen and Henderson, but they are light years ahead of Lucas as a footballer.... I can't stress that enough.

 

[kingjulian]

I also have never seen Lucas play like allan did against west ham.... Never not even that one time he was good against city and not even in that half against Chelsea...

I hope I have made it clear what a thunder cunt Lucas is for ruining my football watching experience for last four years....

 

[RedStar]

Allen is just a better player than Lucas, in virtually every capacity, there isnt really anything more to it than that

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't think Allen's a better tackler, but he'd give fewer fouls away, and I agree he's the better player in pretty much every other respect.