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Alisson Wonderland

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Impressive in what sense ?

Is he impressively lucky ? or has he performed impressively ?

One season of that data is not something to gamble 20m quid on, never mind 70

Do you fucking think I'm in charge of club recruitment here or something? The stats suggest he's a good keeper. What else do you want me to say?

I've said from the start that Pope has equivalent stats (also 1 season) and would cost peanuts by comparison. You slagged that too. Without really advocating signings very strongly yourself.
 
Do you fucking think I'm in charge of club recruitment here or something? The stats suggest he's a good keeper. What else do you want me to say?

I've said from the start that Pope has equivalent stats (also 1 season) and would cost peanuts by comparison. You slagged that too. Without really advocating signings very strongly yourself.
It's much easier to poke problems in things than to suggest a better alternative, just look at Brexit.
 
My main reason to hope he's a decent keeper is that he's ahead of Ederson in the pecking order for the national team and Ederson has been very impressive for City.
 
For the first time I ever I liked a Redninja thread title.
Even though I had to correct it.

And now its fucking horrible again.
 
My main reason to hope he's a decent keeper is that he's ahead of Ederson in the pecking order for the national team and Ederson has been very impressive for City.

But then you have to consider the fact that Jesus started ahead of Firmino despite doing nothing game after game.
 
Yeah, there's little point putting much stock in national team selections.

Loew didn't take Sane in his squad, which I thought was mad.
 
But then you have to consider the fact that Jesus started ahead of Firmino despite doing nothing game after game.
Alisson got further in the champions league than Ederson, same can't be said about Jesus and Firmino though.
 
Mercedes-Benz.JPG


Beep beep car for Becker!
 
Although, sometimes outfield players don't fit formations or the style of play the manager wants to impose. With a keeper it is more straightforward isn't it? Especially when they're both 'sweeper keepers'. It's just a case of picking the best one.
 
Looking at his highlight vids, he seems to be exceptionally quick off his line, and also very agile. Distribution, both with his feet and hands, seems excellent too. Can't make out much of how good he is at crosses.

The strikingly worrying aspect is his tendency to parry the ball into the danger area as opposed to pushing it sideways. He seems to do this repeatedly.

Seems very agile at recovering and making the second save though, if that's any consolation.
 
Looking at his highlight vids, he seems to be exceptionally quick off his line, and also very agile. Distribution, both with his feet and hands, seems excellent too. Can't make out much of how good he is at crosses.

The strikingly worrying aspect is his tendency to parry the ball into the danger area as opposed to pushing it sideways. He seems to do this repeatedly.

Seems very agile at recovering and making the second save though, if that's any consolation.

When a ball is struck very hard and it is a reaction save, this idea that you can just parry the ball any direction you want is a complete fallacy.
 
When a ball is struck very hard and it is a reaction save, this idea that you can just parry the ball any direction you want is a complete fallacy.
Agreed, there is an element of that. But I think he does it a bit on long range shots as well.
 
When a ball is struck very hard and it is a reaction save, this idea that you can just parry the ball any direction you want is a complete fallacy.
I'd noticed the pushing it into the middle of the goal too, but the majority of the time it was saving shots like you mention here.
 
The stats suggest he's a good keeper.

They suggest he had a great season.
They don't tell you why.

You are equating the statistical performance with ability.
I'm saying that's not a smart assumption to make.

If he had outperformed expected goals over the course of a number of seasons it would be safe to assume he is a great goalkeeper. That's the case with De Gea.

For the vast majority of goalkeepers the expected goals stat will regress towards the mean, so unless you're absolutely certain (based on something other than xG) that Alisson is brilliant you should have your money on him being much closer to average next season.

The genesis for statistics like this probably came in baseball - they've been using them for a long time now. And they recognise that stats like this are more useful for determining what players are unlikely to repeat their performance.

What they are trying to do with xG is find a stat that reflects how much a goalkeeper impacted his team. They do that by judging a keeper by the saves he made compared to what the average goalkeeper would have done with similar shots. But the stat is far from perfect, because it can't control for all variables - it records two things, where a shot was taken from and whether it was saved or not. We all know there are plenty of other factors that will impact whether or not a shot goes in.

If you've watched him a lot and you think he's great, fair enough. I haven't, i saw him twice in probably the worst two games he had all season. They are probably about as a reliable an indicator of how he'll be next season as xG is.
 
They suggest he had a great season.
They don't tell you why.

You are equating the statistical performance with ability.
I'm saying that's not a smart assumption to make.

If he had outperformed expected goals over the course of a number of seasons it would be safe to assume he is a great goalkeeper. That's the case with De Gea.

For the vast majority of goalkeepers the expected goals stat will regress towards the mean, so unless you're absolutely certain (based on something other than xG) that Alisson is brilliant you should have your money on him being much closer to average next season.

The genesis for statistics like this probably came in baseball - they've been using them for a long time now. And they recognise that stats like this are more useful for determining what players are unlikely to repeat their performance.

What they are trying to do with xG is find a stat that reflects how much a goalkeeper impacted his team. They do that by judging a keeper by the saves he made compared to what the average goalkeeper would have done with similar shots. But the stat is far from perfect, because it can't control for all variables - it records two things, where a shot was taken from and whether it was saved or not. We all know there are plenty of other factors that will impact whether or not a shot goes in.

If you've watched him a lot and you think he's great, fair enough. I haven't, i saw him twice in probably the worst two games he had all season. They are probably about as a reliable an indicator of how he'll be next season as xG is.


I haven't seen enough to judge either, though our transfer committee, who have a generally excellent hit rate, obviously have. I imagine the Brazilian national manager watched a helluva lot of him, and in a straight choice between him and another excellent keeper, Ederson, he picked Allison as his number 1. I'll repeat, since you appear to have singled me out as the biggest advocate of Alisson, I'm not. I see it as a gamble, and I always said I'd break the bank for Oblak or go for someone with a lot of promise and a lower price.

I agree that stats, including the XG stat are problematic and are an imprecise tool. Countering that I would say that the massive buzz around this player does tell a story in this regard. That would not have developed if he was not performing exceptionally.
 
I'm just pointing out the difficulty of relying on the stat.

If we're linked with or signing a player Hansern is always the biggest advocate of the player.

And international selection has it problems too. Especially when the manager has such a poor track record.

And he picked Jesus ahead of Firmino too.
 
According to that Shot/ conceded list, Pope may have very well been a risk worth taking..

Quite impressive to think this guy would have faced quite a lot of shots given the team he played for was just promoted..

That list suggests like many said, he should have been first choice for England over Pickford in the World Cup
 
Another interesting aspect - he seems to be outstanding in one on one situations.
Thats how De Gea saves 12 pts a season. Not with top corner screamer saves - just through not conceding when your team plays a high line almost by default. Could make a huge difference
 
I'm just pointing out the difficulty of relying on the stat.

If we're linked with or signing a player Hansern is always the biggest advocate of the player.

And international selection has it problems too. Especially when the manager has such a poor track record.

And he picked Jesus ahead of Firmino too.


And I'm not relying on the stat. I just think it is better than the utterly blind save percentage stat (which had been included in the thread). It isn't flawless, by any means, but it is better.

As I said above, Jesus v Firmino is a question of playing in a particular formation and with specific tactics. There is no such issue with Ederson v Alisson. They are both sweeper keepers. Pick the best one.
 
According to that Shot/ conceded list, Pope may have very well been a risk worth taking..

Quite impressive to think this guy would have faced quite a lot of shots given the team he played for was just promoted..

That list suggests like many said, he should have been first choice for England over Pickford in the World Cup

I pointed out Pope months ago. He's had an excellent season. Just like Alisson. But cheaper and Englisher.
 
And I'm not relying on the stat. I just think it is better than the utterly blind save percentage stat (which had been included in the thread). It isn't flawless, by any means, but it is better.

As I said above, Jesus v Firmino is a question of playing in a particular formation and with specific tactics. There is no such issue with Ederson v Alisson. They are both sweeper keepers. Pick the best one.

He did only concede 3 goals in 11 games for Brazil in the WC quals, and he did keep Dida out of the side at Internacional after he made his debut.
So we know he has had a few impressive seasons before last years.

Because of the fee its a massive risk regardless, but I think it would be stupid not to believe he’s in the top tier of goalkeepers behind De Gea and Oblak. With the potential to improve further.

I’m not entirely convinced yet, and the fee doesnt help. But we’re getting a very good goalkeeper and a massive upgrade.

I like that they describe him as calm, confident, fantastic distribution and a great sweeper keeper. We’ve missed all that and just a commanding presence.

I e Ederson added an extra dimension to City’s counterattacks with his distribution.
 
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