Poll 6CM Voting Poll
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Any system that allows an already unelected PM to stay in power after 'achieving' only 27% of the total votes cast needs looking at.
Well, there's fuck all in the way of am outcome. Still looking like a hung parliament.
Just gotta hope labour & lib dems sort a coalition out now. Somewhat fittingly the travesty of this type of election result & demand from labour & lib dem for electoral reform may be pivotal in lib dem rejecting a conservative approach.
Just gotta hope labour & lib dems sort a coalition out now. Somewhat fittingly the travesty of this type of election result & demand from labour & lib dem for electoral reform may be pivotal in lib dem rejecting a conservative approach.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1100839#msg1100839 date=1273207660]
So far the election is strange. you never get a uniform swing but the difference in swings is vast from seat to seat. The tories have won some seats on a huge swing yet failed to win other seats with just a fraction of that swing.
Its hard to argue that Gordon should stay on given these results and also a bit odd that it should be down to the LDs as they haven't exactly done well
[/quote]
Yeah, no matter what I think about your decision you've backed it up & had more of an influence on this outcome than anyone else in this thread, which is an achievement you can look back on.
So far the election is strange. you never get a uniform swing but the difference in swings is vast from seat to seat. The tories have won some seats on a huge swing yet failed to win other seats with just a fraction of that swing.
Its hard to argue that Gordon should stay on given these results and also a bit odd that it should be down to the LDs as they haven't exactly done well
[/quote]
Yeah, no matter what I think about your decision you've backed it up & had more of an influence on this outcome than anyone else in this thread, which is an achievement you can look back on.
if clegg gets the chance to join with labour in exchange for electoral reform then he'd be crazy to turn it down. some people seem to think it's a tough choice because he'll look bad in propping up brown - fuck that. getting PR is their raison d'etre, and as tonight has proved, they've got nothing to lose - they should be ready to do whatever possible to get it, and to hell with the morality.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=40111.msg1100853#msg1100853 date=1273214249]
if clegg gets the chance to join with labour in exchange for electoral reform then he'd be crazy to turn it down. some people seem to think it's a tough choice because he'll look bad in propping up brown - fuck that. getting PR is their raison d'etre, and as tonight has proved, they've got nothing to lose - they should be ready to do whatever possible to get it, and to hell with the morality.
[/quote]
Exactly. These results show the public will always be too chickenshit to vote for an alternative to the usual two on mass. Disappointingly.
if clegg gets the chance to join with labour in exchange for electoral reform then he'd be crazy to turn it down. some people seem to think it's a tough choice because he'll look bad in propping up brown - fuck that. getting PR is their raison d'etre, and as tonight has proved, they've got nothing to lose - they should be ready to do whatever possible to get it, and to hell with the morality.
[/quote]
Exactly. These results show the public will always be too chickenshit to vote for an alternative to the usual two on mass. Disappointingly.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1100575#msg1100575 date=1273179554]
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=40111.msg1100573#msg1100573 date=1273179213]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1100566#msg1100566 date=1273178914]
Does anyone know what effect the UK election and the Greek financial crisis will have on the pound-euro exchange rate over the next week or so?
[/quote]
If the Tories get an overall majority I reckon the £1 will gain against the Euro and the euro will dip under 80p.
[/quote]
Really? Hmm... No, I can't want the Tories to win, even it makes me money. I just can't.
What about the Greek crisis? Won't that have an effect?
[/quote]
Sorry Bunny I missed the follow up question before i logged off last night. Coincidently I was watching a debate on CNBC last night about the Greek crisis and possible "contagion" and there was a view put across by one economist that this Greek crisis is the beginning of the end for the Euro. He suggested that it might not be a quick death but over the next few months the Euro is in serious jeopardy, nobody else in the studio argued the point!
If he's proved correct then we can expect further weakness in the currency as speculators (vultures) move in.
Whatever happens I can't see the Euro gaining strength anytime soon.
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=40111.msg1100573#msg1100573 date=1273179213]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1100566#msg1100566 date=1273178914]
Does anyone know what effect the UK election and the Greek financial crisis will have on the pound-euro exchange rate over the next week or so?
[/quote]
If the Tories get an overall majority I reckon the £1 will gain against the Euro and the euro will dip under 80p.
[/quote]
Really? Hmm... No, I can't want the Tories to win, even it makes me money. I just can't.
What about the Greek crisis? Won't that have an effect?
[/quote]
Sorry Bunny I missed the follow up question before i logged off last night. Coincidently I was watching a debate on CNBC last night about the Greek crisis and possible "contagion" and there was a view put across by one economist that this Greek crisis is the beginning of the end for the Euro. He suggested that it might not be a quick death but over the next few months the Euro is in serious jeopardy, nobody else in the studio argued the point!
If he's proved correct then we can expect further weakness in the currency as speculators (vultures) move in.
Whatever happens I can't see the Euro gaining strength anytime soon.
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
ARRRRRRRRRHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA.
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
ARRRRRRRRRHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA.
[quote author=Dahuge link=topic=40111.msg1100885#msg1100885 date=1273221321]
Forgetting party alliances.
SUrely brown can't still lead the government after this drubbing. HE has never won any elction to be PM or to be retained as PM.
Fucking madness.
[/quote]
He can if Clegg goes back on his word and decides to accept him as leader of a coalition govt.after saying earlier that he wouldn't.
Forgetting party alliances.
SUrely brown can't still lead the government after this drubbing. HE has never won any elction to be PM or to be retained as PM.
Fucking madness.
[/quote]
He can if Clegg goes back on his word and decides to accept him as leader of a coalition govt.after saying earlier that he wouldn't.
If they do get a referendum on PR into law, wouldn't it make sense to call a new election (under PR) as soon as possible?
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40111.msg1100891#msg1100891 date=1273222819]
If they do get a referendum on PR into law, wouldn't it make sense to call a new election (under PR) as soon as possible?
[/quote]
Unless we get the hugely unlikely coalition of Con/Lib Dem then we are almost certainly going to have to vote again within 12 months.
If they do get a referendum on PR into law, wouldn't it make sense to call a new election (under PR) as soon as possible?
[/quote]
Unless we get the hugely unlikely coalition of Con/Lib Dem then we are almost certainly going to have to vote again within 12 months.
Though I'm all in favour of Cons not being anywhere near no10. The alternative is a little bizaree its a government made up of loads of parties. Lab/Lib won't have enough together to make a majority and so will have to get a couple of groups from Ireland, the Green vote and a bit here and a bit there to make a go of it.
We will probably be back in the booths pretty soon
We will probably be back in the booths pretty soon
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
just saying what the news said Del, Lib+LAb is not enough.
I see the markets have opened badly. This is the worry of a hung parliament no one having any confidence that joint parties can agree on how to reduce the defecit so fuck all happens for a while.
I worry the public has made a big mistake here not giving a single party the win
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
just saying what the news said Del, Lib+LAb is not enough.
I see the markets have opened badly. This is the worry of a hung parliament no one having any confidence that joint parties can agree on how to reduce the defecit so fuck all happens for a while.
I worry the public has made a big mistake here not giving a single party the win
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
of course what i'm really hoping for is the independence of scotland. now that really would fuck labour and the lib dems, even under their precious PR.
[quote author=Fox link=topic=40111.msg1100878#msg1100878 date=1273220168]
The UK system is madness. surely the fact that the Tories will get approx 100 more seats than last time and labour lose about seats means Cameron should be PM. the country have voted for him to be PM, who cares if he is 20 seats short.
How can Brown after getting stuffed but not quite stuffed enough still be PM, it is shit
Even if Brown links up with Clegg they won't have a majority so will need to smoozy up to others as well.
Brown should be too ashamed to lead now, has he no pride.
I the fucking snake Mandleson is not ruling out a new labour leader, he is a fucker
[/quote]
That's an interesting take coming from a Conservative supporter. If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
of course what i'm really hoping for is the independence of scotland. now that really would fuck labour and the lib dems, even under their precious PR.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=40111.msg1100906#msg1100906 date=1273224554]
of course what i'm really hoping for is the independence of scotland. now that really would fuck labour and the lib dems, even under their precious PR.
[/quote]
And the independent Scotland would be able to sponge off the EU instead of sponging off England. It's too good to be true!
of course what i'm really hoping for is the independence of scotland. now that really would fuck labour and the lib dems, even under their precious PR.
[/quote]
And the independent Scotland would be able to sponge off the EU instead of sponging off England. It's too good to be true!
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1100905#msg1100905 date=1273224537]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
The Tories have fucked up again. They have continually fucked up and in the last 3 elections and got mullered. This time they had a sitting-duck Labour party with a punch-drunk Prime Minister to aim at and they failed to get a majority! How they thought the electorate would warm to those Bullingdon Boys I'll never know, given any half-decent leader they would have strolled to a huge majority.
If we get another election and Labour appoint a decent leader the Tories will be annihilated.
If we get another election and Labour appoint a decent leader the Tories will be annihilated.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100916#msg1100916 date=1273225945]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1100905#msg1100905 date=1273224537]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
[/quote]
Clegg knows the Euro is a gonner now. He also knows the illegal immigrant amnesty policy was never going to work.
The only one I can think of him insisting on may be the £10K tax bracket. Maybe he would get some of his elctoral reforms through as well.
It should never have come to this if people had voted on the current state of the country, the policies needed to get us back on the line financially and stop voting because what someone did to their grandparents in their generation.
Sorry it makes me angry, voting should not be done IMO on what a party did yrs ago. Otherwise New labour could never have worked, perhaps the Tories should have put "new" in front as well
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1100905#msg1100905 date=1273224537]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
[/quote]
Clegg knows the Euro is a gonner now. He also knows the illegal immigrant amnesty policy was never going to work.
The only one I can think of him insisting on may be the £10K tax bracket. Maybe he would get some of his elctoral reforms through as well.
It should never have come to this if people had voted on the current state of the country, the policies needed to get us back on the line financially and stop voting because what someone did to their grandparents in their generation.
Sorry it makes me angry, voting should not be done IMO on what a party did yrs ago. Otherwise New labour could never have worked, perhaps the Tories should have put "new" in front as well
That would be a lie, though.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100916#msg1100916 date=1273225945]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
[/quote]
You are approaching this from a very one-eyed point of view. The unfairness of the electoral system benefits Labour rather more than it does the Tories. From the 621 results declared at the time of writing, the Tories have 291 (46.8%) and Labour have 251 (40.4%). However, the Tories have 36.0% of the total votes cast and Labour 29.3%.
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
[/quote]
You are approaching this from a very one-eyed point of view. The unfairness of the electoral system benefits Labour rather more than it does the Tories. From the 621 results declared at the time of writing, the Tories have 291 (46.8%) and Labour have 251 (40.4%). However, the Tories have 36.0% of the total votes cast and Labour 29.3%.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40111.msg1100932#msg1100932 date=1273227558]
Things seem to be moving quicker than i thought. Clegg will speak to DC first and Cameron making a statement at half 2.
You have to wonder if Brown might decide its not worth it.
[/quote]
what does your gut tell you Rich?
Things seem to be moving quicker than i thought. Clegg will speak to DC first and Cameron making a statement at half 2.
You have to wonder if Brown might decide its not worth it.
[/quote]
what does your gut tell you Rich?
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100916#msg1100916 date=1273225945]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1100905#msg1100905 date=1273224537]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
[/quote]
i think he meant that the system works against the tories relative to labour, which it very obviously does. labour's by far the biggest beneficiary of FPTP, if you think of them as a separate party from the lib dems, rather than one half of some kind of dream left wing alliance.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40111.msg1100905#msg1100905 date=1273224537]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=40111.msg1100899#msg1100899 date=1273224188]
If every vote counted in this country then a Lab-Lib coalition would have a comfortable majority.
[/quote]
Yes but a Con-Lib coalition would have an even more comfortable majority! The electoral system has worked against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
That doesn't follow at all. The Conservatives currently have 36.1% of the vote. Yet their share of the seats stands at 291 - which gives them the best part of 45% of the seats in the House of Commons. The electoral system as it stands represents the best opportunity for the Conservatives to gain power with a majority. A PR system would see their share reduced significantly.
Besides, a Con-Lib coalition is almost unthinkable. Ideologically, they're miles apart. Clegg would have to be a complete sell-out to agree to that. (Which he may well be, who knows.)
[/quote]
i think he meant that the system works against the tories relative to labour, which it very obviously does. labour's by far the biggest beneficiary of FPTP, if you think of them as a separate party from the lib dems, rather than one half of some kind of dream left wing alliance.
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