Palace Post Match thread

[mark1975]

Jesus do you really think that?

If you do fair enough, you have a very different view of football.

Oh fucking please. Defenders get away with fouling players all over the place every fucking week, from setpieces or open play, the amount of times Salah has been kicked and he's stayed on his feet is ridiculous. Look at the maximum intent from Kompany the other week, luckily he jumped out the way. Look at the way he had the shite kicked out of him leading up to one of his goals against West Brom recently too, when you know, he stayed on his feet and there was no retrospective action against the defender. Defenders bend the laws to their advantage, so do attackers.

You don't half talk sanctimonious shite.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Oh fucking please. Defenders get away with fouling players all over the place every fucking week, from setpieces or open play, the amount of times Salah has been kicked and he's stayed on his feet is ridiculous. Look at the maximum intent from Kompany the other week, luckily he jumped out the way. Look at the way he had the shite kicked out of him leading up to one of his goals against West Brom recently too, when you know, he stayed on his feet and there was no retrospective action against the defender. Defenders bend the laws to their advantage, so do attackers.

You don't half talk sanctimonious shite.

I was talking about that specific incident with Sahko.

You get so angry it’s unreal you need to chill out.

 

[Red Astaire]

A clear dive. Seconds after the contact was made. He makes himself no favours doing this so better stay on the feet there.

Aye! This^^^

 

[ibromurph]

A clear dive. Seconds after the contact was made. He makes himself no favours doing this so better stay on the feet there.

Whilst I'll admit it looked bad, I think most people are missing the point. He DID NOT dive because Sakho flicked out his legs. He went down easily because Sahko had his paw on his shoulder and dragged him back. It wasn't enough to go down the way he did, but that was the reason he went down. Not the because of the contact Sahko made a second or so before.


Salah has "dived" probably less than 5 times in nearly 2 years. He's won 1 penalty from it.

He's also been hacked unceremoniously about 30-40 times in that same time frame.

There's an agenda growing in the media to attribute all our recent success to luck, biased refereeing and Salah diving. No one wants to see us winning the league, so the quicker Salah is accepted as a diver, the better.. so hopefully he doesn't win a legit pen in the future, when we should have one, and people/rivals can say "see.. boy who cried wolf".

People really just don't want to give us any credit. Same thing happened with Suarez when we were fighting for the title (albeit he was an actual diver).

 

[juniormember]

I really don’t think there’s an agenda in the media, let’s not start that, but your points about Salah is absolutely true.

 

[Insignificance]

Whilst I'll admit it looked bad, I think most people are missing the point. He DID NOT dive because Sakho flicked out his legs. He went down easily because Sahko had his paw on his shoulder and dragged him back. It wasn't enough to go down the way he did, but that was the reason he went down. Not the because of the contact Sahko made a second or so before.


Salah has "dived" probably less than 5 times in nearly 2 years. He's won 1 penalty from it.

He's also been hacked unceremoniously about 30-40 times in that same time frame.

There's an agenda growing in the media to attribute all our recent success to luck, biased refereeing and Salah diving. No one wants to see us winning the league, so the quicker Salah is accepted as a diver, the better.. so hopefully he doesn't win a legit pen in the future, when we should have one, and people/rivals can say "see.. boy who cried wolf".

People really just don't want to give us any credit. Same thing happened with Suarez when we were fighting for the title (albeit he was an actual diver).

Suarez should have had many more penalties. But he carried that rep with him. Salah must avoid that reputation.

 

[juniormember]

Suarez should have had many more penalties. But he carried that rep with him. Salah must avoid that reputation.

Salah didn’t have the reputation, stayed up all the time when kicked or pulled, yet got no penalties.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Whilst I'll admit it looked bad, I think most people are missing the point. He DID NOT dive because Sakho flicked out his legs. He went down easily because Sahko had his paw on his shoulder and dragged him back. It wasn't enough to go down the way he did, but that was the reason he went down. Not the because of the contact Sahko made a second or so before.


Salah has "dived" probably less than 5 times in nearly 2 years. He's won 1 penalty from it.

He's also been hacked unceremoniously about 30-40 times in that same time frame.

There's an agenda growing in the media to attribute all our recent success to luck, biased refereeing and Salah diving. No one wants to see us winning the league, so the quicker Salah is accepted as a diver, the better.. so hopefully he doesn't win a legit pen in the future, when we should have one, and people/rivals can say "see.. boy who cried wolf".

People really just don't want to give us any credit. Same thing happened with Suarez when we were fighting for the title (albeit he was an actual diver).

Are you serious? Ha. The media bar one or two love us and would love us to win it. It’s great for the sport

 

[tombrown]

I really don’t think there’s an agenda in the media, let’s not start that, but your points about Salah is absolutely true.

Its becoming the common line in the media that Salah is a diver. The latest example is Garth Crooks (I know) team of the week, where he includes salah, but cant stop himself having a swipe at him in the process:

[article]Mo Salah is breaking my heart. Why would such a wonderful player do something so grotesque?
He went down in the penalty area as though he had been poleaxed. Crystal Palace skipper Luka Milivojevic told the Egypt international what he thought of the charade in no uncertain terms, and quite rightly. This was before the Liverpool striker sent the Eagles back to Selhurst Park having had their wings severely clipped.
I was so disappointed in Salah but I still can't bring myself to leave him out of my team of the week.[/article]

 

[tomasjj]

Bloody foreigner, ruining our beautiful game.

 

[Modo]

Very good point about Suarez.
Also, did you see the challenge on Sterling yesterday. I mean fuck that guy, but pen all day.
The refs go by rep as well. Salah needs to cut that shit out. This time it did look bad because he reacted too late.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Its becoming the common line in the media that Salah is a diver. The latest example is Garth Crooks (I know) team of the week, where he includes salah, but cant stop himself having a swipe at him in the process:

[article]Mo Salah is breaking my heart. Why would such a wonderful player do something so grotesque?
He went down in the penalty area as though he had been poleaxed. Crystal Palace skipper Luka Milivojevic told the Egypt international what he thought of the charade in no uncertain terms, and quite rightly. This was before the Liverpool striker sent the Eagles back to Selhurst Park having had their wings severely clipped.
I was so disappointed in Salah but I still can't bring myself to leave him out of my team of the week.[/article]

That’s completely fair. He needs to cut it out or deal with the rep that comes with it.

 

[Insignificance]

Salah didn’t have the reputation, stayed up all the time when kicked or pulled, yet got no penalties.

He has got 3 penalties lately?

But such a reputation is easy built and hard to get rid. It is enought hat media start asking question, fair or not.

 

[mark1975]

That’s completely fair. He needs to cut it out or deal with the rep that comes with it.

"He went down like he was pole-axed", errr no he didn't, he went down and still took a swipe at the ball to keep possession (amazing that no one has even acknowledged this factor). Completely fair my fucking arse.

And as for this bollocks about there being no media agenda. Here's a few headlines from the last day or two:

Echo: Liverpool Forward Mohamed Salah slammed for embarrassing dive against Palace.

BBC: Shearer blasts "embarrassing" Mohamed Salah dive.

Daily Mail (Chris Sutton): Salah risks Liverpool losing the title with his diving "antics" (that's probably the most laughable one yet, considering he scored 2 goals that secured the win)

Andy Gray: “I think in any big game now, certain coaches might just remind officials that he is going to ground… easily.

Keith Hackett (former ref via The Express): Mohamed Salah slammed for diving AGAIN: Former referee brands Liverpool ace 'less savoury'

Telegraph: Mo Salah is getting a reputation as a diver, referees need to get tough.

Daily Star: Mohamed Salah slammed after Danny Rose booking, Spurs fans are fuming - LIVERPOOL star Mohamed Salah has been criticised by Tottenham fans after Danny Rose was controversially booked for diving against Fulham this afternoon. (really? WTAF)

BBC (Garth Crooks): Liverpool star Mo Salah is ‘breaking my heart’ with ‘grotesque’ play. You're messing with your credibility, your reputation. Soon not only the professionals will call him a cheat but the fans as well.”

BBC (Kevin Kilbane): ”It's pathetic. We don't want to see this in any player's game. It's poor from Salah given his talent."

 

[ibromurph]

I really don’t think there’s an agenda in the media, let’s not start that, but your points about Salah is absolutely true.

I should have said social media mainly.

Because I really mean rival fans and haters.

 

[ibromurph]

Are you serious? Ha. The media bar one or two love us and would love us to win it. It’s great for the sport

Again, I really meant SOCIAL media.

The actual media do like us as a team (although their coverage of Salah recently has been poor) and because of that, it actually fuels even more hatred, envy and jealousy towards us on social media.

 

[Modo]

"He went down like he was pole-axed", errr no he didn't, he went down and still took a swipe at the ball to keep possession (amazing that no one has even acknowledged this factor). Completely fair my fucking arse.

And as for this bollocks about there being no media agenda. Here's a few headlines from the last day or two:

Echo: Liverpool Forward Mohamed Salah slammed for embarrassing dive against Palace.

BBC: Shearer blasts "embarrassing" Mohamed Salah dive.

Daily Mail (Chris Sutton): Salah risks Liverpool losing the title with his diving "antics" (that's probably the most laughable one yet, considering he scored 2 goals that secured the win)

Andy Gray: “I think in any big game now, certain coaches might just remind officials that he is going to ground… easily.

Keith Hackett (former ref via The Express): Mohamed Salah slammed for diving AGAIN: Former referee brands Liverpool ace 'less savoury'

Telegraph: Mo Salah is getting a reputation as a diver, referees need to get tough.

Daily Star: Mohamed Salah slammed after Danny Rose booking, Spurs fans are fuming - LIVERPOOL star Mohamed Salah has been criticised by Tottenham fans after Danny Rose was controversially booked for diving against Fulham this afternoon. (really? WTAF)

BBC (Garth Crooks): Liverpool star Mo Salah is ‘breaking my heart’ with ‘grotesque’ play. You're messing with your credibility, your reputation. Soon not only the professionals will call him a cheat but the fans as well.”

BBC (Kevin Kilbane): ”It's pathetic. We don't want to see this in any player's game. It's poor from Salah given his talent."

Wish they'd be just as hard on Kane. But they're not.

 

[juniormember]

He has got 3 penalties lately?

But such a reputation is easy built and hard to get rid. It is enought hat media start asking question, fair or not.

Yeah he’s been getting penalties since he decided he’d go down instead of being hard.

 

[manwithnoname]

Is it worth doing my RAAAAATTTTIIINNNNGS? Seems ages ago now. Ah, fuck it. HERE THEY ARE!!!!!

We won. Yes, yes that is all that counts, I know. But there was still quite a bit to be concerned about, not least injuries, squad size and also form. But without dwelling on things we can't control, it's certainly worth discussing how very haphazard, sloppy and worrying that game was. Conceding three goals at home to fucking Palace?! Really? And we had to rely on some totally spasticated goalkeeping from Speroni, not to mention a couple of spawny deflectiosn of our own.

Three points, yeah. But not a good three points. At this stage of the season we need to start racking up clean sheets aswell. This was haphazard and sloppy at times.

Alisson (5) Palace didn't have many chances, but Alisson let them all in. So no, not a great display. They were hit low and hard, but he should have done much better with the the last one. Distribution was good.

Milner (5) Really tough this one. He was indefatigable as usual, and charged forward to great effect, supplying dangerous crosses and some excellent passing too. But defensively, he was pulled to pieces by the coruscating skills and speed of Zaha; rinsed for the goal and then rightly sent off for two despairing, bad late tackles. So 7 in attack, and 3 in defence. If Moreno had performed like that he'd have been RUINED by the fans.

Matip (6) Not in a great position for the first goal, but a decent performance, although he and Van Dijk never quite managed to look in total control. Missed a good chance with his 50p head, as usual.

Van Dijk (6) Spawny assist was nice, although like Matip he had chances to score himself. Not sure what happened with the awful marking for Tompkins' goal, as there was some bumping and impeding going on to leave the Palace defender totally free.

Robertson (8) Another tediously effective and efficient display; almost faultless in defence and a non-stop threat in attack, as he pounded up and down the line for 90 minutes. Relentless.

Fabinho (7) Smart display of defensive awareness - often slotting into space that had been left by defenders moving forward - and he was also probing and adventurous with his passing. Has improved a lot since his first tentative displays and is now a first-choice for me. Hope he is fit after that knock, as he gives us solidity and authority in midfield. Likes a tackle too.

Henderson (7) Impressive overall (although that sloppy, slow square pass to end Milner's day was annoying), Henderson was close to his best level here: sharp in and out of possession, drove the team forward and put in a Sisyphean midfield shift. This is what we need from him every week.

Keita (4) A fucking passenger. Not sure the left midfield/ winger/ inside forward position suits him - or indeed if that's where he was supposed to play, as he seems to gravitate away from the action - but he was shit yet again. Replaced by Shaqiri, and shouldn't be starting games for Liverpool at the moment.

Mane (6) Hmmmmm. As ever, an extra point for the vital goal that made the points secure (ish), but God Almighty his decision-making and final ball was all over the place like the proverbial mad woman's piss as the game progressed, as his desperation for a goal seemed to make him greedy and wasteful. He's so vital to the way we play, with his pace, aggression and direct approach, but he needs to be a bit less tunnel-vision and careful with the ball.

Firmino (7) At times he was as wasteful and frustrating as Mane, over-elaborating and coughing up the ball, but he was as prodigious as ever with his harassment of the Palace defenders (and midfielders and attackers), covering lots of ground and always looking to create something. Scored again, with the help of a deflection, but you have to shoot to have a chance and he's doing just that more often lately.

Salah (8) Cute, quick-thinking finish for the first goal, and there was another huge slice of luck for the second, which he smashed in from 0000.1mm out after Spazoni decided to try and score from a Milner cross. Embarrassing dive aside, this was another top quality display, with some mesmerising close control and punishing ball skills that are not designed to impress the cameras or wow the crowd, but to inflict maximum damage on the opposition.

 

[Modo]

I think Camacho deserves an 8 for stopping Zaha, just before the ref blew the final whistle.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Not sure what happened with the awful marking for Tompkins' goal

He was picked.
The next corner, the ref told the Palace players to knock it off as the Liverpool players had clearly alerted him to it.

 

[manwithnoname]

I think Camacho deserves an 8 for stopping Zaha, just before the ref blew the final whistle.

Yeah, Christ almighty that was important.

That moment, combined with Milner's RB display (and fully-deserved sending off) may have got him a start in the next game.

 

[ILD]

The narrative of diving seems to stem from social media. The media then drives the narrative as they need to fill up air time and column space. Opposition fans pick up on it at the ground and finally the opposition players feel they now have this new found authority or right to feel utterly aghast and dismayed by this 'cheating', when in reality, the majority of players around the world dive to some extent, even their own players.

The media feed off things like this. Gerrard was labelled a diver, Suarez was labelled a diver. Other clubs have had it too. Ashley Young and Drogba got a bit of press for their 'dives'. To be honest, I don't really care if people dive or add some simulation. What's the point getting up in a heap about it, all players seems to do it to some extent.

As macca said previously, how do you fall naturally as opposed to unnaturally? I think if a player delays his fall or reacts after the contact then it does look or seem unnatural I suppose but he has still been kicked or contact has been made right? Lovren conceded a penalty to Everton and we learned that if you put your hands on the attacker you may be guilty of giving away a penalty. We know this. Some are given and some aren't. We know there is a lack of consistency also. It's up to the ref to judge the merits of the foul. Of course we can't always trust refs to make the correct decision so it's all up in the air anyway. Recently we've seen Pogba and Sterling be awarded what the fabulous pundits would call a soft penalty.

I'm not here sticking up for Salah btw. It did look like he went down a bit easy the other day if that even makes sense. I sound like one of the many pundits on tv now. Kevin Kilbane called it pathetic. The two apes over on BEIN Sports told us that Salah better be careful or he'll earn a reputation. A reputation they would only love to bestow upon him. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of the media adding fuel to the fire. (EDIT : I just spotted Marks post).

Its quickly just becomes point scoring from opposition fans which irks me a little. I've had numerous friends tell me that Salah needs to cut it out and he doesn't need to be diving etc. It's just something to throw at us in an effort to try knock us down a peg as were doing well in the league. Are their players saints blessed with excellent balance or something? He who has not sinned may cast the first stone.

I've read on here that Salah needs to cut it out as it might cost us a penalty or a decision down the line. Wait a minute, did I also read that we haven't had a penalty at home with 18 months before this flurry of decisions? We've gotten 4 penalties since December I think. How bad, we'll take that.

Hopefully it will just motivate Salah to continue scoring and the media will move on and find another scapegoat to examine under a microscope.

 

[Judge Jules]

Top post Dave, 95% agree. Would dissent on only one point, but an important one, namely "It's up to the ref to judge the merits of the foul". With respect, that's just not right. As long as the rules say what they currently say, a foul is a foul is a foul and should be penalised accordingly. The fact that they aren't always is the reason why Mo was right to do what he did.

 

[Brizzle]

Klopp apparently told Camacho it was the most important tackle of his career. Really interesting article "he is going through the same process as Robbo"

 

[mark1975]

Top post Dave, 95% agree. Would dissent on only one point, but an important one, namely "It's up to the ref to judge the merits of the foul". With respect, that's just not right. As long as the rules say what they currently say, a foul is a foul is a foul and should be penalised accordingly. The fact that they aren't always is the reason why Mo was right to do what he did.

And this is where the contention often is, because (for instance), how many games do we see where a particular defender niggles at an attacker all game - pulling the shirt, sly kicks down the back of the calf, knee into the back of the legs, etc, and the referee misses all of it? So then the attacker makes a meal of it in a more advantageous position and wins a freekick or a penalty. Who's bending the rules more, who's cheating? Like I said, the faux outrage is laughable when there have been plenty of other instances of him getting fouled throughout games and getting nothing - the Kompany challenge, the Ramos incident, Cook kicking out at him all game and leading up to one of his goals against Bournemouth. It works both ways, there has been a flurry of decisions go his way, some rightly, some more debatable and suddenly he's the media and social media's sacrificial lamb.

 

[manwithnoname]

Top post Dave, 95% agree. Would dissent on only one point, but an important one, namely "It's up to the ref to judge the merits of the foul". With respect, that's just not right. As long as the rules say what they currently say, a foul is a foul is a foul and should be penalised accordingly. The fact that they aren't always is the reason why Mo was right to do what he did.

He was right to do what he did? What? It was a dive and it looked stupid and exaggerated.

Doesn’t do anything to change the narrative in our favour

 

[ILD]

Top post Dave, 95% agree. Would dissent on only one point, but an important one, namely "It's up to the ref to judge the merits of the foul". With respect, that's just not right. As long as the rules say what they currently say, a foul is a foul is a foul and should be penalised accordingly. The fact that they aren't always is the reason why Mo was right to do what he did.

I see what your saying here and Salah may have had a right to go down as there was contact but in this case his reaction and fall looked delayed and suspect. Added to the fact he's being watched (rightfully or wrongfully) by the media and fans, it might have been better to stay on his feet. But I get your point, a foul should be a foul etc. but unfortunately we do not have consistency and probably never will so there is no point even worrying about it.

We've gotten a few penalties since Christmas and hopefully Salah or Mane or whoever it is continues to have control of the ball in the opposition box to such an extent that defenders are tasked with a decision; let them score or foul them. Suarez was excellent at having touches of the ball in the ball. It's probably why he scores so many goals.

 

[ILD]

And this is where the contention often is, because (for instance), how many games do we see where a particular defender niggles at an attacker all game - pulling the shirt, sly kicks down the back of the calf, knee into the back of the legs, etc, and the referee misses all of it? So then the attacker makes a meal of it in a more advantageous position and wins a freekick or a penalty. Who's bending the rules more, who's cheating? Like I said, the faux outrage is laughable when there have been plenty of other instances of him getting fouled throughout games and getting nothing - the Kompany challenge, the Ramos incident, Cook kicking out at him all game and leading up to one of his goals against Bournemouth. It works both ways, there has been a flurry of decisions go his way, some rightly, some more debatable and suddenly he's the media and social media's sacrificial lamb.

Yeah the new media attention on Salah is annoying but that may well be the price of doing well in the league. I hope it is motivating Salah to score MORE goals. He also seems to have a good sense of humour to laugh things off. Remember Salah's tweets and comments when Kane was claiming goals left right and center. Kane was getting bashed left right and center by fans and branded pathetic by certain quarters. That has passed. We can't control social media or the narrative, we can only look smug as we sit on top of the league.

 

[Woland]

He shouldn't have dived against Newcastle. We had the game in the bag and since then he's been hammered. Rightly so really.