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You Aina seen nothing yet

I see the Klopp era in two phases - the period leading up to the PL win and post PL win. In my opinion, waiting for the right player was the correct strategy till 2020. While we were waiting for the right player in one position, we were dynamic addressing weakness in others. Once we had a PL and CL winning squad, I agree with you 100%, giving up on entire seasons not willing to compromise was irritating. When you get a chance to win the PL or CL or both, you need to take it if it meant spending on an extra player here or there. That team and Klopp deserved at least one more of the big prize.

While we are in the cusp of winning the PL, I feel we need to go back to 2016-2020 mode. We have too many gaps to address. If we have the money and the right players at the right price, we should go for it. Otherwise, maybe pick and choose.

For example, Kvara seems like a serious missed opportunity. If we had bought him, given how overpriced the striker market is, maybe we could have survived with kicking Nunez out, rotating Diaz and Gakpo in that number 9 position with Salah on the right. Or we could have gone for an Origi style riskier punt in the summer for number 9 or Salah backup.

I suppose to some extent it depends on what our short-term goals are.

We've signed up VVD and Salah for another two years. My assumption is that we've sold them a vision of winning shit over the next couple years as opposed to them simply sticking around to stabilise the ship during a transition period.

In reality - and they must know this too - it's going to have to be a balancing act between both, obviously made way harder by the fact that we are operating on a limited budget.

Ultimately, from what you're saying above, don't think we really disagree too much. I just don't wanna see us sit on our hands and see seasons going down the drain because we're relying on an injury prone Gomez or whoever to fill in because we haven't bought *anyone*.

As we've seen this season, there are now several teams competing for those CL spots and if we can help it, it's not really a dogfight we wanna get dragged into.
 
Fixed. Not every signing must be a Robertson.

P.S. Just remembered another “journeyman” player who did quite well for us: Divock Origi.

Van Dijk, Alisson, Fabinho, Mane, Matip - were all excellent value for money signings. We were able to invest a cool 130 million on Van Dijk and Alisson, based on one of the most significant value multiplier signings of all time - Coutinho. Also, the squad already had Mane, Salah, Gomez, Matip, TAA, Milner, and Robertson - all of whom combined cost less than £ 80 million.

I have limited information about players outside of Liverpool. Is Aina good enough to play for us, that is the core question. If he is, that's great. Here is what you had to say about him

"I have not seen much of Aina and his compilations don’t look particularly impressive, however I do think this is the profile we should pursue for a @Bradley backup - having an experienced player (preferably with PL experience) who is physically robust and defensively sound would mitigate a lot of concerns over Bradley as our main RB next season. I liked what I saw of Givairo Read, for example, but I don’t think this would be the right situation to go for someone so young and inexperienced - maybe in a couple of years."

That doesn't read like a glowing tribute. I am a teacher, and that reads like a reference letter I write for a C student whom I feel sorry for because he is polite, and I don't want to disappoint him.

The way I evaluate a player's impact is to wait a year or two and then think about whether I would have been comfortable paying 20-30 million extra for that player when we acquired them. Mane, Salah, Gomez, Matip, TAA, Milner, and Robertson - all of them pass that test comfortably. I know TAA came through the academy, but he would have been worth it at 30 million. So does Alexis MacAllister. Tsimikas doesn't. Szobo doesn't, at least not comfortably. We have not made enough of them in recent times. It's not about making cheap signings.

Do you see a future where, in the summer of 2027, you are comfortable stating that Aina's contribution to LFC was worth paying 30 million in the summer of 2025? If the answer is yes, then that's great, advocate for him. But let's not use the "the player must be cheap enough and have the right level of competency (not too much) so that he doesn't impede Bradley's path to the first team" argument. No player is genuinely free. Every player costs.

Divock Origi's profile when we acquired him was nothing like Aina's. I am not going to elaborate on that.
 
I have doubts about Frimpong - he does seem to have similar defensive issues to Trent (i.e. not really being so keen on the whole defending thing) and particularly if we lose Konate, we’ll be absolutely fucked on the right side next season. We need somebody more defensive; if it’s not Aina, can anyone suggest any names who could be better and on the market?



This is a reasonable list put together.
 
Ultimately, from what you're saying above, don't think we really disagree too much. I just don't wanna see us sit on our hands and see seasons going down the drain because we're relying on an injury prone Gomez or whoever to fill in because we haven't bought *anyone*.

As we've seen this season, there are now several teams competing for those CL spots and if we can help it, it's not really a dogfight we wanna get dragged into.

The way I see it, we dont have a choice. According to @Beamrider, transfer fees and wages all come from the same pot. The ideal scenario is that we do some Mane, Salah, Robertson-level hit transfers over the summer. If not, we have to prioritize. We also need some players who have that extra bit to compensate for the edge we will lose when Salah, Van Dijk and Allison leave us in two years. It wont be easy but we have the right people in charge.
 
Also…. Let’s address the elephant in the room.

He’s clearly being called “vagina” if we sign him.
 
The way I see it, we dont have a choice. According to @Beamrider, transfer fees and wages all come from the same pot. The ideal scenario is that we do some Mane, Salah, Robertson-level hit transfers over the summer. If not, we have to prioritize. We also need some players who have that extra bit to compensate for the edge we will lose when Salah, Van Dijk and Allison leave us in two years. It wont be easy but we have the right people in charge.
This is something we have to get back to. We've spent well when we've spent big, but we've also took risks and fell short (and been stung financially too).

Our best tactics have been identifying low level promising players who fit the stats we need, and occasionally spending big on players we more or less knew would be a good fit and a high probability of success (Alisson, VVD). We seem to have lost our way in recent years with this, but we still seem capable of shrewd buys like Macca. We just need to be clever about it again. How much of an impact is the departure of the data analyst guy who left in 2023? The one who identified Salah?
 
This is something we have to get back to. We've spent well when we've spent big, but we've also took risks and fell short (and been stung financially too).

Our best tactics have been identifying low level promising players who fit the stats we need, and occasionally spending big on players we more or less knew would be a good fit and a high probability of success (Alisson, VVD). We seem to have lost our way in recent years with this, but we still seem capable of shrewd buys like Macca. We just need to be clever about it again. How much of an impact is the departure of the data analyst guy who left in 2023? The one who identified Salah?
I'd argue that the market has changed as well.

If Brentford contact Reading about a player, they'll ask for £10 mill or something. If we come along, they'll ask for £40 mill.
 
You're not concerned about how he has excelled in a Nuno system, and if thats possible to replicate with us?

Not really - at its most basic the FB position is a lot about 1 on 1 duels with a winger and I’ve seen enough of Aina to know that he’s stronger in that department than a lot of other candidates. Stronger than both Trent and Bradley for sure. We already have an attack-minded option in Bradley, what I’m looking for in a back up is defensive nous, athleticism and availability.
 
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I’d probably take any of them ahead of Aina.

That makes no sense to me. Does Premier League proven mean nothing anymore? A kid from Portugal or Holland who is used to completely different pace and intensity and will be bulldozed by most wingers here is objectively a worse option in the short-term. And long-term we already have Bradley to nurture - we need someone to fill the gaps here and now, not another project.
 
Not really - at its most basic the FB position is a lot about 1 on 1 duels with a winger and I’ve seen enough of Aina to know that he’s stronger in that department than a lot of other candidates. Stronger than both Trent and Bradley for sure. We already have an attack-minded option in Bradley, what I’m looking for in a back up is defensive nous, athleticism and availability.

Bradley has better defensive stats than Aina actually. I don't know, it feels like it's a one season wonder kinda thing in terms of output. The previous season for Forest was a bit more average. Maybe he looks better as the Forest defensive set up is much better. Milenkovic has been one of the best CBs in the league.

Pros: Availability, HG status, knows the league, flexibility, defensively solid
Cons: Age, AFCON, limited going forward, questions regarding if the output can be replicated

For free on a short term deal. Maybe. But I wouldn't want him to be our starting RB for a longer period of time if Bradley gets injured. That's the worry.
 
Bradley has better defensive stats than Aina actually. I don't know, it feels like it's a one season wonder kinda thing in terms of output. The previous season for Forest was a bit more average. Maybe he looks better as the Forest defensive set up is much better. Milenkovic has been one of the best CBs in the league.

Pros: Availability, HG status, knows the league, flexibility, defensively solid
Cons: Age, AFCON, limited going forward, questions regarding if the output can be replicated

For free on a short term deal. Maybe. But I wouldn't want him to be our starting RB for a longer period of time if Bradley gets injured. That's the worry.
 

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You really have to do per 90 when comparing players with vastly different sample size. The stats I posted from Whoscored are pretty clear: 1.8 tackles per game against 0.7, 1.0 interceptions against 0.2 etc. Some of the defensive stats should be taken with a grain of salt, as they are more of a function of team style rather than individual quality, but both on stats and eye test it’s hard to argue that Aina isn’t a better defender (meaning the defensive side of the game) than Bradley at present.

BTW is this true that Bradley has never had a clean sheet in the Premier League? Surely that’s wrong.
 
You really have to do per 90 when comparing players with vastly different sample size. The stats I posted from Whoscored are pretty clear: 1.8 tackles per game against 0.7, 1.0 interceptions against 0.2 etc. Some of the defensive stats should be taken with a grain of salt, as they are more of a function of team style rather than individual quality, but both on stats and eye test it’s hard to argue that Aina isn’t a better defender (meaning the defensive side of the game) than Bradley at present.

BTW is this true that Bradley has never had a clean sheet in the Premier League? Surely that’s wrong.

Part of the reason a per 90 is needed is because Bradley simply hasn't played a whole lot, which is why a back up who is capable at this level feels more appealing than a 19 year old to go with him. I want Bradley to be given the chance to show he's got what it takes to grow into the RB role, but he isn't quite there yet and its up to us to help make him successful - which for me is by having a solid back up who isn't there really to challenge for that spot.
 
The other option is to buy a versatile defender that gives us a bit more strength in depth. Harder to come buy I know, but someone who can cover, say, CB and RB would be ideal. A more naturally solid defender for when needed. The likes of Gomez and Milner have made a massive difference to seasons at crucial times because of their versatility.
 
You really have to do per 90 when comparing players with vastly different sample size. The stats I posted from Whoscored are pretty clear: 1.8 tackles per game against 0.7, 1.0 interceptions against 0.2 etc. Some of the defensive stats should be taken with a grain of salt, as they are more of a function of team style rather than individual quality, but both on stats and eye test it’s hard to argue that Aina isn’t a better defender (meaning the defensive side of the game) than Bradley at present.

BTW is this true that Bradley has never had a clean sheet in the Premier League? Surely that’s wrong.

Could you set it up with 23/24 included for both? Bradley’s sample size this season isn’t enough imho given the injuries.

My point is that Bradley is a much better defender then what he gets credit for.

I’d argue that it’s a moot point anyway. He wont be leaving on a free.
From the local newspaper:

Aina’s current deal is due to expire in the summer, although a 12-month extension option counts in the Reds’ favour. However, discussions have taken place regarding longer terms for the former Torino man.
 
The other option is to buy a versatile defender that gives us a bit more strength in depth. Harder to come buy I know, but someone who can cover, say, CB and RB would be ideal. A more naturally solid defender for when needed. The likes of Gomez and Milner have made a massive difference to seasons at crucial times because of their versatility.
Was about to post this:

Another alternative is to bring in someone who is versatile. For example, Celta's 25 yr old Oscar Mingueza, who has a €20m release clause. La Masia graduate.

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"Expected Threat (xT) from passes P90 assesses how much a player contributes to creating goal-scoring situations through passing."
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