You Aina seen nothing yet

[binomial]

I have doubts about Frimpong - he does seem to have similar defensive issues to Trent (i.e. not really being so keen on the whole defending thing) and particularly if we lose Konate, we’ll be absolutely fucked on the right side next season. We need somebody more defensive; if it’s not Aina, can anyone suggest any names who could be better and on the market?

We'd be utilising Frimpong in a different set up to the one he's in now so wouldn't be left alone to marshall that right flank by himself, having Mo ahead of him will automatically make his average position deeper and with his pace and energy, we'd be much less vulnerable. That's before we even get to how much more determined he'd be to track back compared to Trent.

I just want fullbacks like we had before, pace, energy, overlaps, pick outs in the box and Kerkez/Frimpong tick those boxes, the more defensive minded options just don't stand out because they usually turn out like a Clyne, Wan Bissaka or Pavard.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I didn't mean that Aina is top class, I meant that the perfect solution would be an older player who IS top class!

Failing that, I don't think Aina would be a bad option. My main misgiving would be the opposite one to yours: I think he may be too good to just back up Bradley for a couple of years.

For me this whole conversation pivots on what we think the best approach to Bradley is. If you think, as I do, that he should be given every chance to become first choice RB, I think you want someone like Aina or some other lesser player to shadow him. If the priority is just getting in the best RB possible then I think you basically have to accept that Bradley will ultimately probably have to be sold.

My opinion is we should focus on other areas and give Bradley a year or two to make it and just have a cheap backup, and accept the associated risks.

I think I'm with you here. We have too many other needs to spunk 40m or more on a rightback, which is what it will cost to have someone clearly better than Bradley.

Gomez is fine as a backup, if he stays. Or we find a relatively inexpensive and affordable backup.

Have to pick and choose our battles and I'd much rather we get Kerkez, make a big push for Huijsen and spend the rest on whichever attacker(s) we think are the best fit.

 

[Brizzle]

I think I'm with you here. We have too many other needs to spunk 40m or more on a rightback, which is what it will cost to have someone clearly better than Bradley.

Gomez is fine as a backup, if he stays. Or we find a relatively inexpensive and affordable backup.

Have to pick and choose our battles and I'd much rather we get Kerkez, make a big push for Huijsen and spend the rest on whichever attacker(s) we think are the best fit.

This is where I am coming from. We have such an overahul required that picking up low cost options in certain areas that are more than good enough to be a squad option leaves more cash where we need to be buying players capable of being a starter and propel us to the next level.

Most of this depends on how Slot views Bradley. Bradders could be our next starting RB, but it isn't a given. He's had some good moments, but he's had some pretty average moments too. He needs a solid game time, but we also can't risk over playing him.

If we got a Frimpong, I think Bradders might see that as the death knell. If we got an Aina he would see this as a show of faith in him.

I'm not overly arsed if we get Aina but I can see why a short term fix is appealing when our other RB options currently in the team are Bradley, Gomez & Quansah

 

[rurikbird]

My issue would be describing Aina as “top class” - he’s had one good season, I doubt most of us had ever heard of him prior to 6 months ago.

None of us know what the plan is - maybe we have set aside £40m for a RB that doesn’t impact what our plans are elsewhere in the team.

Maybe Hughes has got someone pegged from a European League that we haven’t heard of - maybe we sign another Tsimikas type player (the difference to Aina being age).

Again, I’m not hearing much in the way of how good Aina would be other than “he’s had a good season” and “he’s cheap” - if he was 25, I’d probably be.

I mean, he’s been available before, Fulham took him on loan for a season with a fee agreed and then decided not to make it permanent and Forest picked him up on a free 2 years later.

He’s just never been on the radar, then all of a sudden, has a good season, people find out he’s free and all of a sudden he’s like the best RB ever.

I wouldn’t at all be surprised if these rumours of our interest is his agent trying to get Forest to hurry up and table a better contract offer.

I keep going back to our transfer modus operandi being mainly u16 top British/Irish talent and players aged 22-25. The only time we’ve gone for players over the age of 27 in the last decade or so, it’s been the likes of Milner, Thiago, Virgil or Shaqiri - do players that have operated at the highest level of the game or in Virgil’s case, that we were absolutely certain are top talent.

Aina is none of that.

Maybe we do have to spend money on a RB.

This is a good post, even if I disagree with some aspects of it. You’re right that Aina is by all definitions a “journeyman player” and yes, he wasn’t on anyone’s radar until this season. However, here and now would someone like him be better than a Calvin Ramsey or an unproven teenage RB from the Eredivisie or Portugal? I have no doubt that he would. I was checking the Givairo Read stats the other day and he’s a real talent - but he also didn’t win a single aerial duel during the entire season - you just know Slot will stick him in the reserves and play Bradley until he breaks.

As a general strategy, you definitely don’t want to comprise your squad of “journeyman players,” but there is a time and place for solid, unspectacular pros within the right structure. Italian teams like Atalanta made collecting such players and turning them into more than a sum of its parts into an art form. Real Madrid brought in Joselu to replace Benzema and he actually delivered in a big moment. I would not buy a Danny Welbeck as our CF, even though I respect him as a player and in some games he would objectively give us more than Nunez - but I think a team aspiring to be top needs to invest in top talents up front. But a back-up RB? If there is a solid option available who is free or cheap and showed a good enough level of performance this season in this league, then I don’t see it as particularly risky and I don’t really care than Fulham didn’t choose to retain him 2 years ago.

Like I said in another thread, my ideal candidate would be someone like Carvajal/Aszpilicueta - a real top-class defensive full-back with experience and winner’s mentality, but I don’t see anyone like that on the market. Barring that, I think Aina will do just fine.

 

[737Max]

Did we ever go for temporary fixes under Edward’s? We are far more likely to take a risk and just go with Bradley till December or next May until the player with the profile we want is available at the valuation we desire - you know, the “right” player.

Ben Davies? And that Turkish German kid

 

[Fabio]

There is a strong argument that Aina is a more proven RB than Bradley, so in that sense there is competition.

Proven in what metric? More appearances? Fair. Defensive ability? Bradleys still learning and already had mbappe on the floor.
Otherwise I don't see it.

I'll never be supportive of breakthrough seasons at 27 years of age.

I'd be exceptionally wary of buying anyone from that forest side. It's the type of flash in the pan setup that usually comes a cropper.

Similar to the Leicester side that won the league, There will be some gold there (for Murillo and Hobbs white, see Mahrez and kante), but there will be a lot of fucking shite (see Drinkwater and albrighton).

Forest also play hugely different to us. There's too many red flags

 

[moron]

Its been delightful reading all this, really it has. I have only seen 5 mins of Calvin Ramsey and I loved what he did. Problem I have and so should all of you....

Bradly keeps getting injured,
Gomez keeps getting injured,
Ramsey ... well he keeps getting injured without playing
Q is shit as a RB
Jones too talented to play such a shit role
Szobo...YES, has all the qualities and you all know it...but we need his energy in midfield.

Ultimately.....Aina would be free and proved to be a very good defensive quick RB, but like some have said ... anyone can look great in their backline when well protected by the midfield. With us, there would be no protection AT ALL

 

[ibromurph]

Ultimately.....Aina would be free and proved to be a very good defensive quick RB, but like some have said ... anyone can look great in their backline when well protected by the midfield. With us, there would be no protection AT ALL

He's a better 1 v 1 FB than TAA and Bradley. A bit like Kyle Walker, when you have extreme pace, it can bail you out of a lot of situations.

If anyone is getting protected in that Forest team, it's the 2 CBs, specifically Milekovic, because the FBs aren't going forward much, nor are they getting beat easily in 1 v 1 situations, therefore the CBs don't have to step out of position much to sweep up.

 

[Tinto]

If Aina can take the load of Szobo and Gravy from having to cover for Mo all the time, it would help the balance of the team a lot. Maybe give them more attacking freedom

 

[rubans]

Question for me is not about Bradley's ability but whether he can stay fit for most of the season.
Secondly, Aina seems like a bit of a really safe old school choice. Was never expecting like for like for Trent or Robbo but a bit wary of buying cheap buys like Endo and Chiesa if they aren't good enough to contribute to the level we need.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’m positive most of bradder’s injuries are related to growing pains.

 

[Hansern]

He's a better 1 v 1 FB than TAA and Bradley. A bit like Kyle Walker, when you have extreme pace, it can bail you out of a lot of situations.

If anyone is getting protected in that Forest team, it's the 2 CBs, specifically Milekovic, because the FBs aren't going forward much, nor are they getting beat easily in 1 v 1 situations, therefore the CBs don't have to step out of position much to sweep up.

Forest play a low block with banks of 4 or 5.
Even Moreno and Williams look good defensively in this set up with the protection they get.
Aina is soon to be 29 and this is his first great season. Feels like a mistake and not a good fit in terms of the tactics and set up he’s excelled in.

 

[Modo]

I’m positive most of bradder’s injuries are related to growing pains.

Spot on. He's still built like a twig. He'll become bigger and stronger in the next few years.

 

[ibromurph]

Forest play a low block with banks of 4 or 5.
Even Moreno and Williams look good defensively in this set up with the protection they get.
Aina is soon to be 29 and this is his first great season. Feels like a mistake and not a good fit in terms of the tactics and set up he’s excelled in.

Kyle Walker retained his pace until he was 34. If we're signing this guy, I only need him around for 1-2 seasons, just to see if Bradley is good enough.

I don't want to spend 30-40m on a proven RB, nor do I want to spend 15m on an unproven young prospect who may not get much game time.

If there's a better, younger RB out there available for under 10m, fab, let's get him (any at the relegated teams?). But I've heard us linked with no other names, and seen no better suggestions here yet.

 

[Modo]

Most importantly, the money could be used elsewhere.
But hey, if we find another Tsimikas for £12 mill, I'm all for it.

 

[peekay]

Ben Davies? And that Turkish German kid

We had an injury crisis. We had a Konate lined up for the summer. We did try for Caleta Car and the transfer didn’t pan out. Completely different situation here. We have the entire summer to plan for.

 

[peekay]

Most importantly, the money could be used elsewhere.
But hey, if we find another Tsimikas for £12 mill, I'm all for it.

What we need is another Robertson for less than 10 million. Tsimikas in one sense has delivered for the money and wages. No doubt about it. But he has not been able to convince two managers to become the first choice. So in that sense he is a failure. We need someone who will push Bradley and give a real competition for places or move past Bradley and make the right back spot his own.

 

[peekay]

This is a good post, even if I disagree with some aspects of it. You’re right that Aina is by all definitions a “journeyman player” and yes, he wasn’t on anyone’s radar until this season. However, here and now would someone like him be better than a Calvin Ramsey or an unproven teenage RB from the Eredivisie or Portugal? I have no doubt that he would. I was checking the Givairo Read stats the other day and he’s a real talent - but he also didn’t win a single aerial duel during the entire season - you just know Slot will stick him in the reserves and play Bradley until he breaks.

As a general strategy, you definitely don’t want to comprise your squad of “journeyman players,” but there is a time and place for solid, unspectacular pros within the right structure. Italian teams like Atalanta made collecting such players and turning them into more than a sum of its parts into an art form. Real Madrid brought in Joselu to replace Benzema and he actually delivered in a big moment. I would not buy a Danny Welbeck as our CF, even though I respect him as a player and in some games he would objectively give us more than Nunez - but I think a team aspiring to be top needs to invest in top talents up front. But a back-up RB? If there is a solid option available who is free or cheap and showed a good enough level of performance this season in this league, then I don’t see it as particularly risky and I don’t really care than Fulham didn’t choose to retain him 2 years ago.

Like I said in another thread, my ideal candidate would be someone like Carvajal/Aszpilicueta - a real top-class defensive full-back with experience and winner’s mentality, but I don’t see anyone like that on the market. Barring that, I think Aina will do just fine.

Are there only two options - less than 20 year old or greater than 30 year old? How about someone top class for 15 million who can make the right back spot his own. I don’t know who that is but that is why we have this world class background data team with access to Man City database, right?

I like Bradley but what is with the we need to protect his development at all cost? Yes. We need to manage his minutes and all and provide him with the opportunity if possible but if we are able to land the next RB Robertson for 10 million or so, let us go for it. If he is that precocious of a talent, then it will shine through whomever we buy. Just like the purchase of a new midfield didn’t affect the development of the generational midfield talent, Curtis Jones.

We do need to provide pathway for local talent and I get that. But at the same time, Flanagan had an even more impressive 2013 2014 and look where he is now.

 

[rurikbird]

Are there only two options - less than 20 year old or greater than 30 year old? How about someone top class for 15 million who can make the right back spot his own. I don’t know who that is but that is why we have this world class background data team with access to Man City database, right?

I like Bradley but what is with the we need to protect his development at all cost? Yes. We need to manage his minutes and all and provide him with the opportunity if possible but if we are able to land the next RB Robertson for 10 million or so, let us go for it. If he is that precocious of a talent, then it will shine through whomever we buy. Just like the purchase of a new midfield didn’t affect the development of the generational midfield talent, Curtis Jones.

We do need to provide pathway for local talent and I get that. But at the same time, Flanagan had an even more impressive 2013 2014 and look where he is now.

Well, Aina is not over 30. And signing Robertson for a few million quid from a relegated team was a rare, you could say all-time great scouting success; not a standard every transfer should be measured against. You might as well ask for the next Suarez or next Salah.

 

[Frogfish]

I agree but fundamentally this is about Bradley's issues rather than what a backup right back should constitute.

I don't think we can realistically give Bradley a chance AND cover those risks. Ironically given your stance the absolute best chance of that is some top class 30+ year old but that seems a pretty small pool.

An attacking young RB good enough to be starting for Liverpool will cost £40m minimum and won't be content to share half his minutes with Bradley.

At which point we might as well just sell him now.

Yeah the discussion and arguments for Aina have me coming around to the idea especially since I consider Bradley good enough to be our starting RB, as I think Slot does too.

Though has this debate been a waste of time? Is he staying put?

 

[rurikbird]

I’m positive most of bradder’s injuries are related to growing pains.

I think it’s the way he lets himself get tackled - he often gets clattered on the stretch and off balance and that’s how muscles and ligaments get torn. Contrast it to someone like Salah or even Trent, actually - when they lose the ball, the lose it “cleanly,” not great for defensive stats but good for longevity.

 

[peekay]

Well, Aina is not over 30. And signing Robertson for a few million quid from a relegated team was a rare, you could say all-time great scouting success; not a standard every transfer should be measured against. You might as well ask for the next Suarez or next Salah.

Sorry. Forgot the third option - journey man players who are available for free.

- We need those value multiplier signings this summer to address most of the gaps in our squad. That is how our title winning team was built. Not focusing on the initial process and wages but one what the player will deliver over the period of his tenure relative to his cost. We need to go back to focusing on those players who will explode in value within 6 months to a year. Need at least a hit or two in that regard.

- If the answers to our problems are Kerkez, Ekitike, Hjuisen, Aina - then we might as well shut our vaunted data analyst team down. Our great team were built on non traditional transfers like Robertson or brilliantly reinventing existing players like Gini.

- Under Edwards and Klopp, if the right player was not available we were more than happy to wait and risk an unbalanced squad. I criticized them a lot during that time for that. They were right. I was wrong then.

- Slot has shown no sign of being pragmatic or compromising in accepting players who do not meet his vision. See Endo, Harvey, Chiesa. So why bother with Aina unless he fits Slots vision.

- We need a player who can provide serious competition for Bradley or outclass him and push him to the bench. Slot seems to like Bradley. Unless Aina is that player, whether he cost zero or 20 million, no point in signing him. Guess who else was cheap- Chiesa.

- We have two all time greats whose level will be waning in the next two years. We have a legendary keeper who will leave in the same time frame. We have a generational talent who is leaving for Madrid. Alexis and Konate are two players who can potentially develop to that rarified level. We need more players with that gold dust in their play.

- I don’t care whether we spend 20 million or 200. I want to see more out of the box innovative signings.
If Aina wasn’t available for a free, would be advocating for him. If yes, that’s great. If not, stay away.

 

[rurikbird]

- If the answers to our problems are Van Dijk, Alisson, Fabinho, Mane, Matip, Szoboszlai - then we might as well shut our vaunted data analyst team down.

Fixed. Not every signing must be a Robertson.

P.S. Just remembered another “journeyman” player who did quite well for us: Divock Origi.

 

[Hansern]

Kyle Walker retained his pace until he was 34. If we're signing this guy, I only need him around for 1-2 seasons, just to see if Bradley is good enough.

I don't want to spend 30-40m on a proven RB, nor do I want to spend 15m on an unproven young prospect who may not get much game time.

If there's a better, younger RB out there available for under 10m, fab, let's get him (any at the relegated teams?). But I've heard us linked with no other names, and seen no better suggestions here yet.

I haven’t even seen us linked to Aina in all honesty. He’s close to signing a new deal with Forest.

 

[Fabio]

Fixed.

P.S. Just remembered another “journeyman” player who did quite well for us: Divock Origi.

Noooooo. Divock wasn't a journeyman when we signed him. He was a highly rated young player who never fulfilled his potential.

We never would have bought divock if we were 5 clubs later, like we would be for Aina.

 

[rurikbird]

Noooooo. Divock wasn't a journeyman when we signed him. He was a highly rated young player who never fulfilled his potential.

We never would have bought divock if we were 5 clubs later, like we would be for Aina.

Fair point, but my point is that just because a player has unspectacular career elsewhere doesn’t mean he can’t be a great fit in the right moment. Whether it comes early or late in his career.

 

[Hansern]

Fair point, but my point is that just because a player has unspectacular career elsewhere doesn’t mean he can’t be a great fit in the right moment. Whether it comes early or late in his career.

You're not concerned about how he has excelled in a Nuno system, and if thats possible to replicate with us?

 

[keniget]

- Under Edwards and Klopp, if the right player was not available we were more than happy to wait and risk an unbalanced squad. I criticized them a lot during that time for that. They were right. I was wrong then.

It's not often I disagree with you but I very much disagree with this.

You have to get the balance right and they didn't always do that. You can't write off a whole season (or two) because you find it impossible to compromise in the market (particularly one you can't control).

Said it before and I'll say it again - backed a little bit more, Klopp would've delivered at least one more big trophy.

 

[Fabio]

Primary targets are nice, but not the be all end all. We wanted Brandt over Salah.

 

[peekay]

It's not often I disagree with you but I very much disagree with this.

You have to get the balance right and they didn't always do that. You can't write off a whole season (or two) because you find it impossible to compromise in the market (particularly one you can't control).

Said it before and I'll say it again - backed a little bit more, Klopp would've delivered at least one more big trophy.

I see the Klopp era in two phases - the period leading up to the PL win and post PL win. In my opinion, waiting for the right player was the correct strategy till 2020. While we were waiting for the right player in one position, we were dynamic addressing weakness in others. Once we had a PL and CL winning squad, I agree with you 100%, giving up on entire seasons not willing to compromise was irritating. When you get a chance to win the PL or CL or both, you need to take it if it meant spending on an extra player here or there. That team and Klopp deserved at least one more of the big prize.

While we are in the cusp of winning the PL, I feel we need to go back to 2016-2020 mode. We have too many gaps to address. If we have the money and the right players at the right price, we should go for it. Otherwise, maybe pick and choose.

For example, Kvara seems like a serious missed opportunity. If we had bought him, given how overpriced the striker market is, maybe we could have survived with kicking Nunez out, rotating Diaz and Gakpo in that number 9 position with Salah on the right. Or we could have gone for an Origi style riskier punt in the summer for number 9 or Salah backup.