Apologies if you’ve said it, but what is your alternative view?
Are you in favour of a starting RB who would leave Bradley as back up? Or a different profile i.e. unproven young RB?
You Aina seen nothing yet
- Thread starter rurikbird
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
Apologies if you’ve said it, but what is your alternative view?
Are you in favour of a starting RB who would leave Bradley as back up? Or a different profile i.e. unproven young RB?
I've not seen this guy have one good game ever though. It's too big a risk, especially with his injury record. (much less Bradleys')
I've at least seen Aina have good games in the PL, and has pocketed some good wingers this season (including our own). I at least know he's PL level right now. I would not risk taking a chance on Ramsey, not even for 1 game.
Lloyd Kelly is/was talented. He just made the wrong career move and had the wrong managers.
Funny enough, his career since Bournemouth has gone from Newcastle to Juventus (upgraded), even if his game time has been minimal. Clearly managers are seeing some talent there.
Yeah, presumably because of Robertson being first choice, not Tsimikas being second choice, though?
Exactly how much are we supposed to be spending on a backup RB to be significantly better than Aina? £40m?
To answer your first question, yes. Robbo should’ve been backup this season.
I can’t answer your second because I don't have opinion on Aina.
I don't have much of an opinion on him, either, tbh. For the record I don't think we'll sign him anyway.
I just think signing any kind of top RB would negate giving Bradley a chance. If we even sign a RB it'll probably be someone even less heralded than Aina.
Gomez can only be back up for about 40% of the season
He may as well not be there.
Exactly he’s going to be voted best RB of the season with ease. And he’s available on a free, with lower wages than 80% of our squad and would allow us to promote Bradley to first choice whilst being able to rotate as we know he’s still not resilient enough to start 30+ a season yet. What’s not to love. We will only have finite money and this move would clearly improve the team.
I’d what even remotely true - regular discussions about whether Tsimikas is or isn’t good enough and should be upgraded?
Yes, absolutely - a quick SCM search will show you - I’ve seen it as far back as 2020 when we signed Calum Scanlon as a 15 yo LB from Birmingham.
That was a few months after he signed and people wondered why we’d bothered.
Depends on what you mean by push - there obviously hasn’t been from the club, but from a SCM perspective, yes, there’s been talk about whether he’s good enough and whether we need better from day one.
It’s expected he’s more likely to go than Robbo, isn’t it?
For the record, I don’t think he’s been a bad signing at all, but if we were signing Tsimikas now, even on a free, I’d be questioning it.
Aina & Tsimikas have played about the same amount of games over their career and are a few months apart in age.
It’s moot if he’s signing a new deal with Forest though. Under no circumstances should we pay a fee for him.
Still dont think he’s the right fit for us.
I'm talking about some kind of major narrative that having only an okish backup full back is a major issue.
eg us going into a season and people seriously questioning our chances based on Tsimikas being second choice LB. Not just occasional moaning after a dodgy performance.
I'd be surprised if there's ever been much of that.
I don’t honestly have an answer for that, in the sense of a specific player.
My preference would be for a younger player in and around 24 that has shown he has a high ceiling and that Slot could improve - the data nerds can find the player that’s fits the budget - Robbo is the prime example.
Then it’s up to whoever than is or Bradley convince Slot to play them and claim the position.
Aina just represents lots of red flags for me:
- he’s 29 in October, which means there’s a high chance he could drop off
- he’s never played regularly for a “top club” throughout his career
- he’s had one good season
- he plays in a totally different system to ours, so I’d question whether he’s a good fit. This is important, because you can’t just take a player that’s good in a low block defensive side and chuck him into a space de where FB’s are a main source of attacking width and expect it yo work anymore than any other time you try to ram a square peg into a round hole
- question marks over whether he’s got the attacking ability for our team and that’s important if Bradley’s biggest question mark is fitness
- I also have no idea if he’s suited to being a squad player, in that is he going to be able to come off the bench if not playing regularly and immediately get it.
- missing for AFCON
Like I said previously, it’s also based on how we’ve consistently operated in the transfer market - we do not tend to sign older players unless they’re very experienced or very talented.
Aina seems to flavour of the month purely because he’s had a good season, is Home Grown and isn’t going to cost a lot - but those things rarely add up to equal a good thing for a team like Liverpool.
I don’t think you can have a major narrative about whether an okish backup FB is a major issue when your regular starting FBs are widely considered to be among the best in the world in that position, play regularly and don’t have major ongoing injury concerns.
I think that narrative changes massively when your main LB hits his 30’s and is in obvious decline with more regularly niggling injuries and form concerns, and your main RB is an, albeit very promising young player, that has had significant injury worries and has yet to establish himself as a first team regular.
That okish backup RB ir LB, may be the difference between winning a league or Champions League - so yes, I do think in that context it is more important that we have more than “okish” backup and not settle for one just because he’s cheap with seemingly little regard for whether he’d actually be a good fit.
That doesn’t seem a particularly outrageous position to me.
I agree but fundamentally this is about Bradley's issues rather than what a backup right back should constitute.
I don't think we can realistically give Bradley a chance AND cover those risks. Ironically given your stance the absolute best chance of that is some top class 30+ year old but that seems a pretty small pool.
An attacking young RB good enough to be starting for Liverpool will cost £40m minimum and won't be content to share half his minutes with Bradley.
At which point we might as well just sell him now.
Personally I want Bradley to actually compete with someone. I have my concerns over long term fitness issues, so buying an actual first choice is important for me.
Buying an average backup to an injury prone first choice (who’s not even considered first choice yet) seems short sighted to me.
Buying an average backup to an injury prone first choice (who’s not even considered first choice yet) seems short sighted to me.
I think based on this season’s level of performance, Aina will very much compete with Bradley and could even start over him depending on the opposition and what overall balance Slot wants from the team. This will not be a Tsimikas situation where Robertson is streets ahead.
But it's his first season showing this level and he's 27.
I dunno, it SCREAMS mistake
But to me this is exactly the reason for keeping the way open for Bradley, ie that he's probably the 'right' player long term but maybe not quite yet (needs a bit more experience and to prove his fitness). So you just wait it out and steel yourself for a bit of short term pain.
It would be a gamble and I could understand placing our bets on another player. What I don't think really makes sense is spending a load of money elsewhere and just pretending to ourselves that Bradley is still a viable long term option.
That'd be like pretending Kelleher was still a viable option once we signed Mamardashvilli.
I like this way of thinking – Bradley might be "the one" long-term (or at least deserves to be given a chance to prove that he is), but he is just physically not ready to play 90 minutes twice a week every week for the entire season. One thing about Aina I got from watching what was available on him is that he's a genuinely good teammate, very supportive and protective of younger players – that's exactly who you want backing up Bradley while he earning his experience.
There is a strong argument that Aina is a more proven RB than Bradley, so in that sense there is competition.
My issue would be describing Aina as “top class” - he’s had one good season, I doubt most of us had ever heard of him prior to 6 months ago.
None of us know what the plan is - maybe we have set aside £40m for a RB that doesn’t impact what our plans are elsewhere in the team.
Maybe Hughes has got someone pegged from a European League that we haven’t heard of - maybe we sign another Tsimikas type player (the difference to Aina being age).
Again, I’m not hearing much in the way of how good Aina would be other than “he’s had a good season” and “he’s cheap” - if he was 25, I’d probably be.
I mean, he’s been available before, Fulham took him on loan for a season with a fee agreed and then decided not to make it permanent and Forest picked him up on a free 2 years later.
He’s just never been on the radar, then all of a sudden, has a good season, people find out he’s free and all of a sudden he’s like the best RB ever.
I wouldn’t at all be surprised if these rumours of our interest is his agent trying to get Forest to hurry up and table a better contract offer.
I keep going back to our transfer modus operandi being mainly u16 top British/Irish talent and players aged 22-25. The only time we’ve gone for players over the age of 27 in the last decade or so, it’s been the likes of Milner, Thiago, Virgil or Shaqiri - do players that have operated at the highest level of the game or in Virgil’s case, that we were absolutely certain are top talent.
Aina is none of that.
Maybe we do have to spend money on a RB.
That’s not really a strong argument given one’s 29 in October and the other’s just about to turn 22.
More realistic is that one’s past his peak and the other isn’t anywhere near it and one has a much, much higher ceiling that the other ever had.
There isn't really a great deal of quality, established RB's around.
The best 3 in the league at the moment have been Aina, Munoz and Porro/Livramento.
& besides Hakimi and Frimpong, I can't recall too many others around Europe staking a claim. A lot of these top sides are resulting to playing CB's or DM's there as makeshift. Madrid have, Arsenal have, Barca have. City have. Bayern have. Villa have a few times (backfired completely yesterday - nice one by the way Unai, you gimp).
The best 3 in the league at the moment have been Aina, Munoz and Porro/Livramento.
& besides Hakimi and Frimpong, I can't recall too many others around Europe staking a claim. A lot of these top sides are resulting to playing CB's or DM's there as makeshift. Madrid have, Arsenal have, Barca have. City have. Bayern have. Villa have a few times (backfired completely yesterday - nice one by the way Unai, you gimp).
I have doubts about Frimpong - he does seem to have similar defensive issues to Trent (i.e. not really being so keen on the whole defending thing) and particularly if we lose Konate, we’ll be absolutely fucked on the right side next season. We need somebody more defensive; if it’s not Aina, can anyone suggest any names who could be better and on the market?
I didn't mean that Aina is top class, I meant that the perfect solution would be an older player who IS top class!
Failing that, I don't think Aina would be a bad option. My main misgiving would be the opposite one to yours: I think he may be too good to just back up Bradley for a couple of years.
For me this whole conversation pivots on what we think the best approach to Bradley is. If you think, as I do, that he should be given every chance to become first choice RB, I think you want someone like Aina or some other lesser player to shadow him. If the priority is just getting in the best RB possible then I think you basically have to accept that Bradley will ultimately probably have to be sold.
My opinion is we should focus on other areas and give Bradley a year or two to make it and just have a cheap backup, and accept the associated risks.
