Why two defensive midfielders?

[robinhood]

I reckon many of us think we'd be a better side if, even if Lucas stayed in central midfield, he wasn't asked to play a holding role.

I'd most like to see us play 433, but whatever we play, I'd like it to be flexible and without two central midfielders who both appear to be primarily defensive players.

Is it really necessary to play this way? What are the benefits?

Doesn't our play and chance creation improve when we let it go?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

*Wheels Ryan's chalkboard in*

*Opens fresh box of coloured chalks*

*Goes for a cuppa*

 

[keniget]

Re: Why two defendive midfielders?

Well, I've been calling for a 4-3-3 for a large part of this season already, so I'm in on that count.

As for why we're continuing to play 4-2-3-1, well Rafa likes it.

 

[spider-Neil]

playing two holding midfielders should give licence to the attackers and fullback to get forwards but it doesn't

 

[robinhood]

Exactly Ken, I reckon if there was a reasonably straightforward and plausible footballing reason for it, you'd be able to give it to me.

It's probably Rafa's biggest eye splinter.

Lucas, like Aquilani, is not suited to the Alonso role, but if they were playing 433 and allowed to move back and forward as the play allowed, they'd look much better signings.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39736.msg1085114#msg1085114 date=1270763185]
playing two holding midfielders should give licence to the attackers and fullback to get forwards but it doesn't
[/quote]

It stultifies creativity, unless one the CMs is a deep lying playmaker, like Alonso.

Sorry, I realise this has been gone over months ago.

It's just obvious that, unless Lucas' goal was a fluke, he's being ruined by the system.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think Rafa didn't intend on it being so this season. He thought Aquilani would slot in next to Masher but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Shit result after shit result then put him on the defensive and he has been more worried about not losing than he has about winning.

 

[robinhood]

But Rafa said from the beginning that Aquilani wasn't a like for like replacement for Alonso, with Aquilani admitting that he preferred to receive the ball higher up the field.

Lucas too would prefer to receive the ball higher up the field.Clearly.

Forget defensive / offensive, it just doesn't make sense to play players in roles they genuinely struggle to perform in.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39736.msg1085147#msg1085147 date=1270764516]
But Rafa said from the beginning that Aquilani wasn't a like for like replacement for Alonso, with Aquilani admitting that he preferred to receive the ball higher up the field.

Lucas too would prefer to receive the ball higher up the field.Clearly.

Forget defensive / offensive, it just doesn't make sense to play players in roles they genuinely struggle to perform in.
[/quote]

Oh...errr....Rafa's fucking mad then. That's why.

 

[robinhood]

Maybe he was going to start playing 433 but injuries and bad results scared him off, problem being that sticking with 4231 made even less sense given that Alonso was gone.

Given our squad, the most suitable formation is 433, but if we must stick with 4231 then there's only one player who could do a reasonable imitation of a deep lying playmaker: Gerrard.

If he'd only see the light on this...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Uuuuuurgh.

*Runs away arms flapping*

[size=14pt]Triskadekaphobia

Triskadekaphobia[/size]

[size=12pt]Triskadekaphobia

Triskadekaphobia[/size]

[size=10pt]Triskadekaphobia

Triskadekaphobia[/size]

[size=8pt]Triskadekaphobia

Triskadekaphobia[/size]

*Stops*

*Looks back*

I'm safe

 

[robinhood]

Are you suggesting I'm superstitious?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

*Runs back*

*Pants*

I got it wrong.

It was supposed to be Numerophobia

*Runs away arms flapping*

[size=14pt]Numerophobia

Numerophobia[/size]

[size=12pt]Numerophobia

Numerophobia[/size]

[size=10pt]Numerophobia

Numerophobia[/size]

[size=8pt]Numerophobia

Numerophobia[/size]

*Stops*

*Looks back*

Phew. I'm safe now.

 

[robinhood]

Oh, right. Hahahahah

 

[Portly]

Lucas in our half = shit
Lucas in the opposition half = excellent.

It's taken me most of the season to realise that. :-[

Mascherano doesn't need any help.

 

[Ryan]

Interesting thread Robin.

Two defensive midfielders don't look anywhere near as bad, if you've got 4 pieces of sex in front of them. I was having a similar-ish convo with Oncy about this in the World Cup thread; Argentina should play Mascherano and Cambiasso this summer, cos it free's up Messi, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria, whomever in front of them to run riot.

If we had players of that ilk in our attacking quartet, we'd be fucking laughing. Our problem is that we've got two of them, and they're not always fit. Thus, if the attacking four don't create something, if they don't find space well, then you're fucked and ultimately the defensive two just look like shuffling, unimaginative cunts.

I'm happy to go with Lucas and Masher, so long as there's more absolute quality alongside Gerrard and Torres in the forward four.

 

[userred1]

lucarse the next gerrard lol

 

[Halmeister]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39736.msg1085267#msg1085267 date=1270774932]
Interesting thread Robin.

Two defensive midfielders don't look anywhere near as bad, if you've got 4 pieces of sex in front of them. I was having a similar-ish convo with Oncy about this in the World Cup thread; Argentina should play Mascherano and Cambiasso this summer, cos it free's up Messi, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria, whomever in front of them to run riot.

[/quote]

They've got a very impressive team on paper that should pick itself, like you've just mentioned. Unfortunately they have a fucking mad man in charge. They'd be one of the favourites for sure if it wasn't for Maradona. He didn't play Higuain in the qualifiers did he? Or something equally outrageous as that.

 

[keniget]

No, Argentina have been quite reluctant to call upon Higuain. They should do though because he is the natural successor to Crespo.

As for having four pieces of sex in front of the defensive midfield, well we don't so it would've been nice to try something else this season rather than hopefully plugging away at it and seeing no genuine improvement. Someone touched on this in another thread - I think it was Del - we needed to try and adapt to life without Alonso, but instead we've just pretended that nothing has changed.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39736.msg1085267#msg1085267 date=1270774932]
Interesting thread Robin.

Two defensive midfielders don't look anywhere near as bad, if you've got 4 pieces of sex in front of them. I was having a similar-ish convo with Oncy about this in the World Cup thread; Argentina should play Mascherano and Cambiasso this summer, cos it free's up Messi, Tevez, Higuain, Di Maria, whomever in front of them to run riot.

If we had players of that ilk in our attacking quartet, we'd be fucking laughing. Our problem is that we've got two of them, and they're not always fit. Thus, if the attacking four don't create something, if they don't find space well, then you're fucked and ultimately the defensive two just look like shuffling, unimaginative cunts.

I'm happy to go with Lucas and Masher, so long as there's more absolute quality alongside Gerrard and Torres in the forward four.
[/quote]

Yes, I agree... some more class ahead would inevitably help, but quite often you need play to start from deep, so if you're looking at our team, the only recourse is Johnson, and not every play can start with him. After him, Mascherano, of all people, is capable of starting a play from deep, but they're few and far between.

By playing 433, both Gerrard and either Lucas or Aquilani can drop deep when appropriate (I imagine Gerrard doing the more effective deep creative work) but also the movement should creat space and opportunities.

It seems to me that the only alternative to this is to buy a genuine like-for-like top class replacement for Alonso.