Why aren't we more excited about Origi?

[Pesam]

Pesam - I don't buy the Heskey comparison, or him lacking self belief. He missed a sitter at the weekend then bagged a more difficult chance with aplomb and supreme confidence. His record since later last season is excellent, in terms of goals to appearances.

It was a sublime goal all right Mark but maybe one borne out of lack of confidence? Having rounded Boruc, the sensible option was to pull it back if there was an on-rushing teammate or to proceed towards goal to make the chance easier or to sqaure it. I can't have been the only one who (split-second) thought don't hit it from that angle when he shot? The odds were against him and (just maybe) it was a lack of confidence that led him to get rid of it asap. He caught it beautifully and it was a great goal but I'm still not convinced it was the right decision to shoot from there.

I'm confused by Origi because there are times he looks the real deal but too often he seems to "hide" in games. I really want it to work for him especially as I continually tell my United mates that he's gonna be twice the player Rashford becomes but I want to see him shouting for the ball and screaming when he doesn't get it.

 

[Fabio]

He could be brilliant. But I'm not convinced he will be

 

[Rosco]

He could be brilliant. But I'm not convinced he will be

Same here.

Thats why the Heskey comparison is a good one.

 

[Kay Age El]

Barbosa, Sane, Berardi, Gabriel Jesus and possibly Dolberg

'Possibly'

Lolz, you silly Swede..

*wink*

 

[Modo]

'Possibly'

Lolz, you silly Swede..

*wink*

Hey now, when you've been served Fisher and ate it, you get a bit cautious about the next meal.

 

[Kay Age El]

Hey now, when you've been served Fisher and ate it, you get a bit cautious about the next meal.

Ha. Good one, Yeah Fischer has not really delivered the goods so far. Don't write him off just yet, I haven't. He is more a winger/false 9 type of player too.

Dolberg is a thoroughbred striker..

 

[Modo]

Ha. Good one, Yeah Fischer has not really delivered the goods so far. Don't write him off just yet, I haven't. He is more a winger/false 9 type of player too.

Dolberg is a thoroughbred striker..

Is he even being played by Boro. Only seen sub appearances

 

[Kay Age El]

Is he even being played by Boro. Only seen sub appearances

Was one of their better players last night, got an assist and had a goal disallowed.

Havent seen any ratings but he looked better than for a while.. still a long way to go mind but he had some difficulties with the pace and the strength of the Prem, by his own words.

 

[Modo]

Was one of their better players last night, got an assist and had a goal disallowed.

Havent seen any ratings but he looked better than for a while.. still a long way to go mind but he had some difficulties with the pace and the strength of the Prem, by his own words.

Aha good signs.

 

[Kay Age El]

On Origi.

Think he has done more than enough to warrant a run in the side and time to develop further, but on the other hand I am not totally convinced.

Fence. I am on it.

 

[Hansern]

Heskey was a hard working, physical striker with decent pace but hardly any technical ability.
Origi has so much more to his game then Heskey ever did.
Going missing in parts of games is quite usual for a young player I reckon.
Rashford has gone missing the entire season so far....

 

[Fabio]

Heskey was a hard working, physical striker with decent pace but hardly any technical ability.
Origi has so much more to his game then Heskey ever did.
Going missing in parts of games is quite usual for a young player I reckon.
Rashford has gone missing the entire season so far....

Rashford is playing out of position and 2 years younger

And rashford isn't that good either

 

[Frogfish]

It was a sublime goal all right Mark but maybe one borne out of lack of confidence? Having rounded Boruc, the sensible option was to pull it back if there was an on-rushing teammate or to proceed towards goal to make the chance easier or to sqaure it. I can't have been the only one who (split-second) thought don't hit it from that angle when he shot? The odds were against him and (just maybe) it was a lack of confidence that led him to get rid of it asap. He caught it beautifully and it was a great goal but I'm still not convinced it was the right decision to shoot from there.

I'm confused by Origi because there are times he looks the real deal but too often he seems to "hide" in games. I really want it to work for him especially as I continually tell my United mates that he's gonna be twice the player Rashford becomes but I want to see him shouting for the ball and screaming when he doesn't get it.

I don't get that at all. It's a massive reach to find a reason to force him to match your opinion. He clearly hit it early to beat the retreating defender and it demonstrated supreme confidence and technique. In fact doing any of those 'sensible' options you suggested would have demonstrated a lack of confidence.

 

[Hansern]

Rashford is playing out of position and 2 years younger

And rashford isn't that good either

Agree with the last part.

 

[Squiggles]

I'm a big fan and always have been. He's inconsistent but that should be expected and his goal scoring record is impressive. His name regularly gets sung at games which shows he's getting the love. I've never heard Sturridge's name sang and he's done a lot more for this club than Divock. I just hope he can get the game time he needs to continue his development. I'm not sure how I balance that with my preferences for Sturridge to be on the pitch but there we go.

 

[manwithnoname]

The other issue is that there aren't many examples of a 20-21 year old attacker who has arrived a very big club in the Premiership, largely unheralded or untested, and actually gone onto to be truly exceptional in such a pressurised environment?

We've been spoiled with God and Owen, but who else is there? Anelka and Henry at Arsenal. Ronaldo. Rooney (although he was amazingly highly rated and cost 30m), Harry Kane at Spurs. Shearer.

You could make a case for players like Defoe, but even then you're running out of examples.

They are rare because the talent is rare, so when I see people describe him as 'world class' I naturally have doubts, because that isn't common at all.

So again, if our expectations are that high, I have doubts. If our expectations are that he will be just good, then I have to question if that's good enough.

 

[peekay]

The top goalscorers just KNOW they're gonna score and even if they miss it doesn't affect their confidence the next time a chance presents itself c/f Fowler, Owen Suarez, Torres etc and Ben Woodburn took his chance against Leeds with such assuredness that I'm hoping he'll follow suit.

Divock is very talented, very fast and very strong BUT my instinct tells me he could be another Heskey i.e.

Unfair comparing him to Fowler and Owen. They both were top 5 strikers in Europe when they made their debut. I highly doubt Costa, Aguero, Drogba, Henry would compare favorably to Fowler and Owen when they were 21 (Divock's age).

I did not watch the 21 year old Torres regularly but my impression was that his goal scoring stats improved significantly after he moved to us. Same with Suarez. His finishing was not the greatest in his first season and a half with us when he was 24-25. I think Divock is going to be a more traditional striker who is going to hit his peak at 24-28 rather than 18-22 like Fowler and Owen.

Having said that, Divock still has some way to go to match Heskey treble season performance heights, let alone Torres, Fowler, Owen, Suarez heights.

 

[Modo]

The other issue is that there aren't many examples of a 20-21 year old attacker who has arrived a very big club in the Premiership, largely unheralded or untested, and actually gone onto to be truly exceptional in such a pressurised environment?

We've been spoiled with God and Owen, but who else is there? Anelka and Henry at Arsenal. Ronaldo. Rooney (although he was amazingly highly rated and cost 30m), Harry Kane at Spurs. Shearer.

You could make a case for players like Defoe, but even then you're running out of examples.

They are rare because the talent is rare, so when I see people describe him as 'world class' I naturally have doubts, because that isn't common at all.

So again, if our expectations are that high, I have doubts. If our expectations are that he will be just good, then I have to question if that's good enough.

Van P

 

[tombrown]

The other issue is that there aren't many examples of a 20-21 year old attacker who has arrived a very big club in the Premiership, largely unheralded or untested, and actually gone onto to be truly exceptional in such a pressurised environment?

We've been spoiled with God and Owen, but who else is there? Anelka and Henry at Arsenal. Ronaldo. Rooney (although he was amazingly highly rated and cost 30m), Harry Kane at Spurs. Shearer.
.

Southampton - "a very big club in the premiership"?

 

[mark1975]

He's a good player, he just needs some indulgence. When he got a go last season he made the most of it and was unplayable at times in that Europa run. His goalscoring record so far for us is 15 goals in 48 appearances. Not all of them were starts, so he's averaging 1 in 3 playing a bit part role. All we can ask of him in that sort of situation is for him to score goals and be a threat. He's coming into the team either in inferior sides in the cup, or because we've got injuries in the league, so he's not really having the benefit even of playing with a full strength, experienced side backing him up and helping to nurture his development. He's being thrown scraps here and there and having to prove he can make something of it.

He's got pace, power, can score goals, has good skill and technique and he's only 21. He's everything you want in a raw attacking talent to develop for this league.

 

[keniget]

I'm a big fan of Origi and have been since pretty early on as there is a lot of potential there and at times he's looked unplayable - he really did look like the real deal last season before that prick injured him.

That said, he can also be very frustrating. Take the Bournemouth game - his touch let him down on numerous occasions and whether it was done to 'hiding' or simply not knowing where to run, he was fairly anonymous for large parts of the game. That's not good enough irrespective of age.

Bottom line - I agree that he needs to grow a pair and be a little more arrogant when stepping onto the pitch. He has this rather timid look about him that I don't like to see in a striker and that's really the only thing that worries me about him, not his actual ability.

 

[Ryan]

Massive fan.

Some interesting examples listed above too; Henry, Shearer, Harry Kane, RVP. Where were they playing at the same age? On the left wing, Southampton, Spurs U-21's, and Feyenoord.

Drogba was 26 when he signed for Chelsea. At the age of 21 he was playing for Le Mans, he then followed that up with 2 years at fucking Guingamp.

I get the Owen, Fowler, Torres, etc comparisons - he's not them. Does that automatically mean he's going to be an inferior player? Maybe not. They were different types of player, and I'd argue peaked earlier. Sure Owen and Fowler were superstars at 20 years of age, but they were fucking done by the age of 27 and no use to anyone. What if Origi - like Kane, Henry, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Shearer - hasn't matured yet into a formative striker yet, hasn't found his confidence, and hasn't had a successive run? I look at him and just think kid. He still looks like he's growing to me, he still looks a little awkward, unaware, and almost shy.

But fuck he can play. He's got that weird fearlessness about him that some kids have. He doesn't really know that he's not supposed to go to Borussia Dortmund and score a goal out of nothing, or take the fucking piss in a merseyside derby. He seems to score everytime he plays recently too. He scored 10 goals last year, from fuck all starts. He's got 5 this year - more than Sturridge. He's got 2 in the league - more than Sturridge. He scores away from home, outside the box, with his head, and he's got a fucking great atitude the kid - you hear him last week after the Leeds game talking on the pitch about Coutinho's injury? He's a smashing young player.

All the attributes in the world; pace, power, can score inside and outside the box, does it in big games, away from home, sits on the bench and doesn't fucking moan, comes on and scores. He'll end up with 15 goals this season is my guess.

What else do you want from a 21 year old?

Super talent.

 

[manwithnoname]

Southampton - "a very big club in the premiership"?

He was 22 when Blackburn broke the transfer record to sign him

 

[manwithnoname]

Massive fan.

Some interesting examples listed above too; Henry, Shearer, Harry Kane, RVP. Where were they playing at the same age? On the left wing, Southampton, Spurs U-21's, and Feyenoord.

Drogba was 26 when he signed for Chelsea. At the age of 21 he was playing for Le Mans, he then followed that up with 2 years at fucking Guingamp.

I get the Owen, Fowler, Torres, etc comparisons - he's not them. Does that automatically mean he's going to be an inferior player? Maybe not. They were different types of player, and I'd argue peaked earlier. Sure Owen and Fowler were superstars at 20 years of age, but they were fucking done by the age of 27 and no use to anyone. What if Origi - like Kane, Henry, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Shearer - hasn't matured yet into a formative striker yet, hasn't found his confidence, and hasn't had a successive run? I look at him and just think kid. He still looks like he's growing to me, he still looks a little awkward, unaware, and almost shy.

But fuck he can play. He's got that weird fearlessness about him that some kids have. He doesn't really know that he's not supposed to go to Borussia Dortmund and score a goal out of nothing, or take the fucking piss in a merseyside derby. He seems to score everytime he plays recently too. He scored 10 goals last year, from fuck all starts. He's got 5 this year - more than Sturridge. He's got 2 in the league - more than Sturridge. He scores away from home, outside the box, with his head, and he's got a fucking great atitude the kid - you hear him last week after the Leeds game talking on the pitch about Coutinho's injury? He's a smashing young player.

All the attributes in the world; pace, power, can score inside and outside the box, does it in big games, away from home, sits on the bench and doesn't fucking moan, comes on and scores. He'll end up with 15 goals this season is my guess.

What else do you want from a 21 year old?

Super talent.

My point was that all the players I listed arrived at 18-22 at a big club, and delivered immediately

And they're rare.

Perhaps it's all down to sheer talent, and they're all just better than Origi, and maybe he will be more like Costa or Drogba and become a world class striker at a slightly later age.

But that's the point, will he get that chance given he's already AT Liverpool?

That usually requires a very special talent indeed, and we are not in a position to play him for two seasons to find out if he's more of a late bloomer

Maybe, like Kane, he just needs that chance.

I'm simply not that confident he could take it in the same way.

 

[manwithnoname]

Maybe I'm not seeing something. But watching Demebele and Iheanacho (or whatever the fuck his name is) tonight, I rate them both higher

Especially Dembele

 

[mark1975]

Look at it another way, he's not really getting a great deal of a chance at the moment, but when he does he usually scores a goal. He wasn't great against Bournmouth, he's performed much better, but if the ask of him at the moment is to come into the team and replace what goals we've lost, then he can't really do much more on that note. All he can do is keep performing when he's asked to, and gradually (hopefully for him), he'll become less and less easy to drop back out the team.

 

[manwithnoname]

If he scores 20 goals a season then he will be very hard to drop

It might be interesting to see him play without Firmino dropped in just behind. That might suit both of them in Coutinho's absence

 

[Ryan]

Maybe I'm not seeing something. But watching Demebele and Iheanacho (or whatever the fuck his name is) tonight, I rate them both higher

Especially Dembele

Dembele has got his chance to play regularly in a shit league as the main man. If Origi had gone up there in his place, he'd be doing the same - if not more.

 

[manwithnoname]

Dembele has got his chance to play regularly in a shit league as the main man. If Origi had gone up there in his place, he'd be doing the same - if not more.

Yeah. Getting the chance and also playing time is, again, partly my point

Interesting that he's keeping last season's top scorer out of the side.

Who scored FORTY goals last season

Which illustrates the quality of that league, but more amusingly, he must be thinking 'I'm not really sure what more I have to do'

 

[Ryan]

Yeah. Getting the chance and also playing time is, again, partly my point

Interesting that he's keeping last season's top scorer out of the side.

Who scored FORTY goals last season

Which illustrates the quality of that league, but more amusingly, he must be thinking 'I'm not really sure what more I have to do'

How far away is Origi from playing regularly for us though?

Not that far in my view. He's more reliable than Sturridge, and i dunno - I just think Klopp fancies him more than Dan. I wouldn't be shocked if he sold Sturridge either.

I get he's not as good a goalscorer as Sturridge, but there's just more upside in Origi. He's behind Firmino right now, and we'll be playing in Europ one way or another next year - he'll get his chance.