What's the problem?
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Squiggles
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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36496.msg964931#msg964931 date=1255853533]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36496.msg964895#msg964895 date=1255837469]
The problem is not who we've bought, per se, although as Ross rightly points out: we could've bought a lot, lot better at times.
The problem is all the decentish players we've let go;
Crouch - scoring for fun for England
Bellamy - unplayable for City
aWarnock - established himself at Blackburn and moved onto better things at Villa
Sissoko - better than Lucas
Man United have 'flops', too, if you can call them that. Players like Nani, Anderson, etc, who haven't set the world on fire but their capable of coming in, playing the United system and doing a good job. We've sold all these kind of players leaving our squad thread bare. Now I would rather a world class first team and a weak squad because, as we saw last season, at least it gives us a chance of winning the league if things go our way. But the fact remains we've let too many decent players leave, and I don't just mean Alonso.
[/quote]
Crouch - we play one up front and crouch would never displace him
Bellamy - I think he was moved on because of off field activities
Warnock - so we're pining after averag players now?
Sissoko - the money from his sale bought mash
a lot of players were sold because they wanted out because they saw no way past the first choice. crouch couldn't get past torres, momo couldn't get past mash and alonso. the trouble with having good players who are main stays in their position is the fringe want to want on if they are good themselves (unless you are wiling to pay a ridiculous amount of money).
SF - torres
Foward gerrard
LM - up for grabs
RM - kuyt
CM - mash
CM - used to be alonso
RB - johnson
CB - carra
CB - skrtel
LM - up for grabs
so if you are, for example sami and you are watching carra and skrtel get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are crouch and you are watching torres and gerrard get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are momo and you are watching alonso and mash getting picked week in week out why should you stick around? same with arebelo, keane, bellemy.
this isn't champonship manager, players have families, egos, agents and books that need balancing. it's pointless looking at manu they win stuff on a regular basis so that would keep the fringe happy and it's pointless looking at chelsea because they pay huge wages so that would keep the fringe happy. rafa has wasted money, and sold players I rather he kept because half the reason he sells is because he has to especially if he wants to upgrade the player;
josemi>arbeloa>johnson
morientes>crouch>torres
didi>momo>mash
I'm sure in a lot of cases rafa would have perferred to keep the second generation purchases but a) they wanted to leave b) they need to be sold to balance they books
[/quote]
The point is Spidey, you occasionally play these players to keep them happy and the squad content. They're decent squad options who we desperately need around.
Rafa's never found the right balance between rotation and a consistent first team; United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have to rely upon N'gog, Spearing and El Zhar to come on, and that's got nothing to do with lack of funds or balancing the books.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36496.msg964895#msg964895 date=1255837469]
The problem is not who we've bought, per se, although as Ross rightly points out: we could've bought a lot, lot better at times.
The problem is all the decentish players we've let go;
Crouch - scoring for fun for England
Bellamy - unplayable for City
aWarnock - established himself at Blackburn and moved onto better things at Villa
Sissoko - better than Lucas
Man United have 'flops', too, if you can call them that. Players like Nani, Anderson, etc, who haven't set the world on fire but their capable of coming in, playing the United system and doing a good job. We've sold all these kind of players leaving our squad thread bare. Now I would rather a world class first team and a weak squad because, as we saw last season, at least it gives us a chance of winning the league if things go our way. But the fact remains we've let too many decent players leave, and I don't just mean Alonso.
[/quote]
Crouch - we play one up front and crouch would never displace him
Bellamy - I think he was moved on because of off field activities
Warnock - so we're pining after averag players now?
Sissoko - the money from his sale bought mash
a lot of players were sold because they wanted out because they saw no way past the first choice. crouch couldn't get past torres, momo couldn't get past mash and alonso. the trouble with having good players who are main stays in their position is the fringe want to want on if they are good themselves (unless you are wiling to pay a ridiculous amount of money).
SF - torres
Foward gerrard
LM - up for grabs
RM - kuyt
CM - mash
CM - used to be alonso
RB - johnson
CB - carra
CB - skrtel
LM - up for grabs
so if you are, for example sami and you are watching carra and skrtel get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are crouch and you are watching torres and gerrard get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are momo and you are watching alonso and mash getting picked week in week out why should you stick around? same with arebelo, keane, bellemy.
this isn't champonship manager, players have families, egos, agents and books that need balancing. it's pointless looking at manu they win stuff on a regular basis so that would keep the fringe happy and it's pointless looking at chelsea because they pay huge wages so that would keep the fringe happy. rafa has wasted money, and sold players I rather he kept because half the reason he sells is because he has to especially if he wants to upgrade the player;
josemi>arbeloa>johnson
morientes>crouch>torres
didi>momo>mash
I'm sure in a lot of cases rafa would have perferred to keep the second generation purchases but a) they wanted to leave b) they need to be sold to balance they books
[/quote]
The point is Spidey, you occasionally play these players to keep them happy and the squad content. They're decent squad options who we desperately need around.
Rafa's never found the right balance between rotation and a consistent first team; United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have to rely upon N'gog, Spearing and El Zhar to come on, and that's got nothing to do with lack of funds or balancing the books.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36496.msg964977#msg964977 date=1255864403]
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Depends on the quality of those he wants replaced. If he were doing it just to assert himself, I'd agree with you, but - whatever anyone thinks of him - Rafa's nobody's fool and will know what disruption such a far-reaching clearout would cause. I don't buy the notion that he'd take that kind of risk unless he were convinced that those he's trying to get rid of simply weren't good enough.
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Depends on the quality of those he wants replaced. If he were doing it just to assert himself, I'd agree with you, but - whatever anyone thinks of him - Rafa's nobody's fool and will know what disruption such a far-reaching clearout would cause. I don't buy the notion that he'd take that kind of risk unless he were convinced that those he's trying to get rid of simply weren't good enough.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36496.msg964977#msg964977 date=1255864403]
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Collective responsibility means collective blame
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Collective responsibility means collective blame
Phooey. How can Rafa be held responsible for appointments he didn't make?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36496.msg964977#msg964977 date=1255864403]
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Yeah, maybe, but there's been something rotten about our youth academy set up for years, long before Rafa arrived here. Have you forgotten the likes of Darren Potter and Steve Welsh? Ged was right about them.
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Yeah, maybe, but there's been something rotten about our youth academy set up for years, long before Rafa arrived here. Have you forgotten the likes of Darren Potter and Steve Welsh? Ged was right about them.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36496.msg964983#msg964983 date=1255865247]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36496.msg964931#msg964931 date=1255853533]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36496.msg964895#msg964895 date=1255837469]
The problem is not who we've bought, per se, although as Ross rightly points out: we could've bought a lot, lot better at times.
The problem is all the decentish players we've let go;
Crouch - scoring for fun for England
Bellamy - unplayable for City
aWarnock - established himself at Blackburn and moved onto better things at Villa
Sissoko - better than Lucas
Man United have 'flops', too, if you can call them that. Players like Nani, Anderson, etc, who haven't set the world on fire but their capable of coming in, playing the United system and doing a good job. We've sold all these kind of players leaving our squad thread bare. Now I would rather a world class first team and a weak squad because, as we saw last season, at least it gives us a chance of winning the league if things go our way. But the fact remains we've let too many decent players leave, and I don't just mean Alonso.
[/quote]
Crouch - we play one up front and crouch would never displace him
Bellamy - I think he was moved on because of off field activities
Warnock - so we're pining after averag players now?
Sissoko - the money from his sale bought mash
a lot of players were sold because they wanted out because they saw no way past the first choice. crouch couldn't get past torres, momo couldn't get past mash and alonso. the trouble with having good players who are main stays in their position is the fringe want to want on if they are good themselves (unless you are wiling to pay a ridiculous amount of money).
SF - torres
Foward gerrard
LM - up for grabs
RM - kuyt
CM - mash
CM - used to be alonso
RB - johnson
CB - carra
CB - skrtel
LM - up for grabs
so if you are, for example sami and you are watching carra and skrtel get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are crouch and you are watching torres and gerrard get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are momo and you are watching alonso and mash getting picked week in week out why should you stick around? same with arebelo, keane, bellemy.
this isn't champonship manager, players have families, egos, agents and books that need balancing. it's pointless looking at manu they win stuff on a regular basis so that would keep the fringe happy and it's pointless looking at chelsea because they pay huge wages so that would keep the fringe happy. rafa has wasted money, and sold players I rather he kept because half the reason he sells is because he has to especially if he wants to upgrade the player;
josemi>arbeloa>johnson
morientes>crouch>torres
didi>momo>mash
I'm sure in a lot of cases rafa would have perferred to keep the second generation purchases but a) they wanted to leave b) they need to be sold to balance they books
[/quote]
The point is Spidey, you occasionally play these players to keep them happy and the squad content. They're decent squad options who we desperately need around.
Rafa's never found the right balance between rotation and a consistent first team; United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have to rely upon N'gog, Spearing and El Zhar to come on, and that's got nothing to do with lack of funds or balancing the books.
[/quote]
By selling the middle lot in Spidey's list meant we could buy the latter lot... so surely it did have something to do with funds. As I said before if we hadn't sold Crouch we wouldn't have Johnson now. You could argue, we shouldn't have splashed out so much money for one player and perhaps try to spread the money around, but then we're getting into quality versus quantity argument.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36496.msg964931#msg964931 date=1255853533]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36496.msg964895#msg964895 date=1255837469]
The problem is not who we've bought, per se, although as Ross rightly points out: we could've bought a lot, lot better at times.
The problem is all the decentish players we've let go;
Crouch - scoring for fun for England
Bellamy - unplayable for City
aWarnock - established himself at Blackburn and moved onto better things at Villa
Sissoko - better than Lucas
Man United have 'flops', too, if you can call them that. Players like Nani, Anderson, etc, who haven't set the world on fire but their capable of coming in, playing the United system and doing a good job. We've sold all these kind of players leaving our squad thread bare. Now I would rather a world class first team and a weak squad because, as we saw last season, at least it gives us a chance of winning the league if things go our way. But the fact remains we've let too many decent players leave, and I don't just mean Alonso.
[/quote]
Crouch - we play one up front and crouch would never displace him
Bellamy - I think he was moved on because of off field activities
Warnock - so we're pining after averag players now?
Sissoko - the money from his sale bought mash
a lot of players were sold because they wanted out because they saw no way past the first choice. crouch couldn't get past torres, momo couldn't get past mash and alonso. the trouble with having good players who are main stays in their position is the fringe want to want on if they are good themselves (unless you are wiling to pay a ridiculous amount of money).
SF - torres
Foward gerrard
LM - up for grabs
RM - kuyt
CM - mash
CM - used to be alonso
RB - johnson
CB - carra
CB - skrtel
LM - up for grabs
so if you are, for example sami and you are watching carra and skrtel get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are crouch and you are watching torres and gerrard get picked week in week out why should you stick around? if you are momo and you are watching alonso and mash getting picked week in week out why should you stick around? same with arebelo, keane, bellemy.
this isn't champonship manager, players have families, egos, agents and books that need balancing. it's pointless looking at manu they win stuff on a regular basis so that would keep the fringe happy and it's pointless looking at chelsea because they pay huge wages so that would keep the fringe happy. rafa has wasted money, and sold players I rather he kept because half the reason he sells is because he has to especially if he wants to upgrade the player;
josemi>arbeloa>johnson
morientes>crouch>torres
didi>momo>mash
I'm sure in a lot of cases rafa would have perferred to keep the second generation purchases but a) they wanted to leave b) they need to be sold to balance they books
[/quote]
The point is Spidey, you occasionally play these players to keep them happy and the squad content. They're decent squad options who we desperately need around.
Rafa's never found the right balance between rotation and a consistent first team; United, Chelsea and Arsenal don't have to rely upon N'gog, Spearing and El Zhar to come on, and that's got nothing to do with lack of funds or balancing the books.
[/quote]
By selling the middle lot in Spidey's list meant we could buy the latter lot... so surely it did have something to do with funds. As I said before if we hadn't sold Crouch we wouldn't have Johnson now. You could argue, we shouldn't have splashed out so much money for one player and perhaps try to spread the money around, but then we're getting into quality versus quantity argument.
rafa rotates - why is rafa rotating we'll get nowhere if he continues to chop and change?
rafa picks a consistant - why doesn't rafa give the fringe a go, no wonder they want to leave?
damned if you do, damned if you don't
bart simpson
rafa picks a consistant - why doesn't rafa give the fringe a go, no wonder they want to leave?
damned if you do, damned if you don't
bart simpson
[Has visions of Rafa making an appearance in "The Simpsons"]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36496.msg964996#msg964996 date=1255866554]
[Has visions of Rafa making an appearance in "The Simpsons"]
[/quote]
*full time at s'land*
rafa - 'DOH!'
[Has visions of Rafa making an appearance in "The Simpsons"]
[/quote]
*full time at s'land*
rafa - 'DOH!'
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36496.msg964994#msg964994 date=1255866384]
rafa rotates - why is rafa rotating we'll get nowhere if he continues to chop and change?
rafa picks a consistant - why doesn't rafa give the fringe a go, no wonder they want to leave?
damned if you do, damned if you don't
bart simpson
[/quote]
I said it's about a balance, not bordering on the extremes. Nobody could say we've achieved a harmony between the two.
You keep your good players and prioritise your budget to sign the star players when they come available. The bottom line is, for all the money spent, the squad should be better than it is. There's no argument against that as far as I'm concerned.
rafa rotates - why is rafa rotating we'll get nowhere if he continues to chop and change?
rafa picks a consistant - why doesn't rafa give the fringe a go, no wonder they want to leave?
damned if you do, damned if you don't
bart simpson
[/quote]
I said it's about a balance, not bordering on the extremes. Nobody could say we've achieved a harmony between the two.
You keep your good players and prioritise your budget to sign the star players when they come available. The bottom line is, for all the money spent, the squad should be better than it is. There's no argument against that as far as I'm concerned.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36496.msg964984#msg964984 date=1255865364]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36496.msg964977#msg964977 date=1255864403]
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Depends on the quality of those he wants replaced. If he were doing it just to assert himself, I'd agree with you, but - whatever anyone thinks of him - Rafa's nobody's fool and will know what disruption such a far-reaching clearout would cause. I don't buy the notion that he'd take that kind of risk unless he were convinced that those he's trying to get rid of simply weren't good enough.
[/quote]
They needed shifting but Rafa's actions in the run up to getting rid of them have just cost us more money with fuck all return for it.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36496.msg964977#msg964977 date=1255864403]
But when Rafa refuses to work with the academy, wants all the staff sacked, and buys in his own youth team to play in the reserve team to circumvent the promotions from the Academy I think some of the blame lays at the managers door.
[/quote]
Depends on the quality of those he wants replaced. If he were doing it just to assert himself, I'd agree with you, but - whatever anyone thinks of him - Rafa's nobody's fool and will know what disruption such a far-reaching clearout would cause. I don't buy the notion that he'd take that kind of risk unless he were convinced that those he's trying to get rid of simply weren't good enough.
[/quote]
They needed shifting but Rafa's actions in the run up to getting rid of them have just cost us more money with fuck all return for it.
There's definitely no debating that money could have been spent better, we've also lost some good players too that really would have helped our position, though admittedly it hasn't always been our fault that we've lost them. This squad would be miles better with Crouch or Bellamy left in there. No way should we be in a position of having two strikers as back up to Torres who's combined purchase value was £1.5m.
There was no cohesion yesterday, it was suicide. The very basics yesterday should have been about keeping our shape and playing players where they're familiar playing. Kuyt on the right and a 'flat' back four.
I've said this a million times but the loss of Arbeloa is a heavy one. He wasn't a brilliant player but he was steady and reliable and had an uncanny knack (like Finnan before him) for tucking inside at the right times and compressing the space. Our current fullbacks are permanently wide or advanced whatever the state of play, and Carragher and Skrtel (and Agger yesterday) are being brutally exposed because of it.
There was no cohesion yesterday, it was suicide. The very basics yesterday should have been about keeping our shape and playing players where they're familiar playing. Kuyt on the right and a 'flat' back four.
I've said this a million times but the loss of Arbeloa is a heavy one. He wasn't a brilliant player but he was steady and reliable and had an uncanny knack (like Finnan before him) for tucking inside at the right times and compressing the space. Our current fullbacks are permanently wide or advanced whatever the state of play, and Carragher and Skrtel (and Agger yesterday) are being brutally exposed because of it.
But with Mascherano sitting in, we should still have the protection to allow them to do that. Plus, our wide midfielder arent afraid of tracking back.
Our problem is that once you take Torres out of that team, we have no attacking threat. We rely on his brilliance rather than being set up as a team to open things up with the football we play.
Our problem is that once you take Torres out of that team, we have no attacking threat. We rely on his brilliance rather than being set up as a team to open things up with the football we play.
Rafa has had money to spend, he has spent it incorrectly from the start. He has made a lot of changes some of them needed alot of them not.
He is swapping players for the sake of swapping thus using up his budget for no other reason than he does fancy a player.
With the money he has spent we could have had a lot stronger squad if he had done things properly.
I like rafa, but he will on his way out soon.
He is swapping players for the sake of swapping thus using up his budget for no other reason than he does fancy a player.
With the money he has spent we could have had a lot stronger squad if he had done things properly.
I like rafa, but he will on his way out soon.
Rafa is a bit of a knob in the transfer market it has to be said, buys players and if they do well they stay but if they just do okay then he doesn't give them time to settle and just throws them aside, we'd have a squad with more quality if he gave players a chance after a first poor season.
Arsenal are an anomoly in football, spend little money but still get into the top four, sell their main players but still get into the top four. Wenger should get a lot of credit.
"binny" said:
Arsenal are an anomoly in football, spend little money but still get into the top four, sell their main players but still get into the top four. Wenger should get a lot of credit.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965037#msg965037 date=1255873309]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
I'd rather have kept Bellamy over both of them (and yes, I thought this before his current run of form too)
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965040#msg965040 date=1255873549]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965037#msg965037 date=1255873309]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
[/quote]
You're about the only person in the world who thinks Keane isn't a step up from Crouch but you do have a point in that trying to get Keane into the side disrupted our middle part of last season.
Still I'm happy to get Johnson in for the Crouch money. Aren't you?
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965037#msg965037 date=1255873309]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
[/quote]
You're about the only person in the world who thinks Keane isn't a step up from Crouch but you do have a point in that trying to get Keane into the side disrupted our middle part of last season.
Still I'm happy to get Johnson in for the Crouch money. Aren't you?
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965040#msg965040 date=1255873549]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965037#msg965037 date=1255873309]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
[/quote]
It has been pointed out many time that Crouch wanted to leave because Rafa wouldn't guarantee him first team football. Perhaps you would have preferred if we kept him and ditched Torres our first choice striker?
Although it would have off course have been even better if Crouchie was prepared to stay and be a very useful squad/option player, getting £12m for Crouch with one years left on his contract was an excellent piece of business.
Sadly purchasing Robbie Keane for £20m was a terrible mistake and not replacing him has compounded that mistake.
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965037#msg965037 date=1255873309]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965028#msg965028 date=1255872414]
Selling Crouch(£12M) to buy Keane(£20M) and then selling him without buying any replacement was Rafa's suicidal.
That cost us the title last season and that is costing us again now.
That was the beggining of the end for our manager. And thats not the yanks fault.
[/quote]
It didn't cost us the title last season as we went on our free scoring run after we sold Robbie.
And by some accounts, Rafa was interested in Higuain as part of the Xabi deal but the Yanks just wanted straight cash.
[/quote]
We were 1st when we sold him.
But my point was more about Crouch. Selling him to buy Keane was a football and business mistake.
£8M net spent. F*ucking yanks again!
[/quote]
It has been pointed out many time that Crouch wanted to leave because Rafa wouldn't guarantee him first team football. Perhaps you would have preferred if we kept him and ditched Torres our first choice striker?
Although it would have off course have been even better if Crouchie was prepared to stay and be a very useful squad/option player, getting £12m for Crouch with one years left on his contract was an excellent piece of business.
Sadly purchasing Robbie Keane for £20m was a terrible mistake and not replacing him has compounded that mistake.
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Rafa forced him to leave [/quote]
Crouch wanted to play yet Rafa played one up front.
If you were Rafa would you play Crouch or Torres?
Rafa forced him to leave [/quote]
Crouch wanted to play yet Rafa played one up front.
If you were Rafa would you play Crouch or Torres?
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965056#msg965056 date=1255874610]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Rafa is allowed to drop crouch when he's got a 20 odd mil striker who is a lot better than him! Torres and Gerrard was a deadly partnership so it's stupid mentioning keeping hold of crouch. Rafa was also allowed to want to sell alonso a year before he went as he had 2 indifferent seasons and he fancied getting in new blood who could offer a more attackign threat. We couldn't shift him and then alonso was magnificent. No one would have predicted it. To say rafa didn't want alonso after that season is ridiculous. It is also believed that alonso was detrimental to the dressing room (only what i've heard), so it's ok for us to shift bellamy but not alonso for the same reason?
And keane was just a bit shit. He scored 2 goals on the bounce and all of a sudden he's on a run. i'm gutted we didn't get a replacement but ah well.
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Rafa is allowed to drop crouch when he's got a 20 odd mil striker who is a lot better than him! Torres and Gerrard was a deadly partnership so it's stupid mentioning keeping hold of crouch. Rafa was also allowed to want to sell alonso a year before he went as he had 2 indifferent seasons and he fancied getting in new blood who could offer a more attackign threat. We couldn't shift him and then alonso was magnificent. No one would have predicted it. To say rafa didn't want alonso after that season is ridiculous. It is also believed that alonso was detrimental to the dressing room (only what i've heard), so it's ok for us to shift bellamy but not alonso for the same reason?
And keane was just a bit shit. He scored 2 goals on the bounce and all of a sudden he's on a run. i'm gutted we didn't get a replacement but ah well.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965058#msg965058 date=1255874720]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965056#msg965056 date=1255874610]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[/quote]
So Crouch left because he wasn't offered enough money?
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965056#msg965056 date=1255874610]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[/quote]
So Crouch left because he wasn't offered enough money?
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965061#msg965061 date=1255874876]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965058#msg965058 date=1255874720]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965056#msg965056 date=1255874610]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[/quote]
So Crouch left because he wasn't offered enough money?
[/quote]
so we can add mercenary to crouchies brilliance?
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965058#msg965058 date=1255874720]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36496.msg965056#msg965056 date=1255874610]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=36496.msg965053#msg965053 date=1255874519]
Bellamy is an un-manageable (sp?) nutter especially if your man-management skills are as poor as Rafa's.
Crouch was very popular in the dressing room and with the fans. A nice lad that brings a good atmosphere in the squad.
Rafa forced him to leave and he wanted Alonso to leave as well.
He bought Keane, dropped him when he was starting to score goals and then sold him without any replacement.
A big failure on all points. Begining of the end for Rafa's reign. A bit like Houiller in 2002.
Their reign are very similar on loads of aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, Rafa forced Crouch to leave by offering him a contract.
[/quote]
Id like to see the contract he was offered.
In summer 2005, Rafa offered Carra a 2 year extension contract without a pay rise.
[/quote]
So Crouch left because he wasn't offered enough money?
[/quote]
so we can add mercenary to crouchies brilliance?
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