Waiting for something that might never happen?

[manwithnoname]

Agreed.

I know Klopp seems to have a philosophy of top targets or nobody, which is admirable in a way, but we surely should have alternatives scouted who are not very far behind the ability levels of the first choice. Not every second target has to be Jermain fucking Pennant. Assuming Sakho is off we need a centre back badly. Matip and Lovren are prone to picking up small injuries and Klavan is Klavan. Surely a scouting network should be able to look beyond VVD. There's more than one good centre back out there.

That's what is strange with the lack of other links to CM and CBs.

It's all very well credulous Kool-Aid drinking Kloppalytes knobheads quacking on:

"Klopp wants his first choice and won't settle for less, or buy players for the sake of it - isn't that ace and refreshing?!"

Although obviously he has done exactly that on more than one occasion - Salah, Mane et al - but he has also played Milner at LB for a season, so I do worry that we might buy nobody at all in the CM and CB positions.

 

[Frogfish]

Well, it seems not much thought went into yours.
We're not gonna sign a GK. And we probably wont sign CF either, unless Studge leaves.

Chelsea are having a hard time getting their targets. Conte has been pissed off. They finally agreed something for Bakayoko and Morata just now.

Arsenal have made a free transfer signing and Lacazette.

Spurs have bought none so far. 0.

City have bought 3 players and are about to buy another right back for 30 mill for some reason aswell. Who didnt look particuarly good for Real Madrid.

This is from Mourinho yesterday. Minimum fuss? All rosy and shiny? Even he is saying its a difficult window.

Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho admits he is not happy with the club’s performance in the summer transfer window so far, despite signing Romelu Lukaku and Victor Lindelof.
The Red Devils have only managed to land two of four top targets, according to Mourinho, who concedes it is a difficult market to operate in at the moment.

Still, the Portuguese is hoping to bring at least one more player in, with reports linking the club with Chelsea midfielder Nemanja Matic and Inter Milan winger Ivan Perisic.
It remains to be seen which is the more realistic target for United, but Mourinho clearly won’t be satisfied with how his side have done unless they bring in one more player in the midfield area.
‘We always want more,’ Mourinho told ESPN. ‘We always feel there is room to improve, and I cannot say that I am happy with our transfer window.
‘What I can also say is that it is a difficult transfer window and I don’t blame anyone – it is just a reality of things. The market is going in such a direction that many players are difficult to get, not to say impossible.
‘Every club is powerful and they don’t want to sell or their demands are really high, so the market is difficult.
‘What I will say is that, a long time ago, we thought about four players to strengthen our squad, but it is really hard to do it. If we do the third and forget the fourth, I would be quite happy with that because I know it is difficult.’


Now, Robertson is due for a medical today. So the LB can be crossed of the list.

We all knew that getting a deal done for these two players would be difficult, Keita and VVD.
But I'm more than happy to get our targets late in the window, then not getting them and moving on to someone of lesser quality.
It comes a time when you have to move on, but I dont think that we've come to that point yet.
If the next rumoured bid for Keita is rejected, then we should move one.
If VVD doesnt hand in a transfer request and kicks up a fuss (as rumoured yesterday), then we might have to move on soon from that aswell.

But Klopp seems adament that he wants those two, and seeing as we're not currently looking at other alternatives (actively), then we must be getting some encouragement in regards to getting a deal done.

All I'm saying is that, yes, it would have been nice to have all these deals in place but its the 20th July. Its not the time to panic or throw a hissy fit just yet compared to other clubs transfer business.

If we start with the players we got now against Watford, it wont be the end of the world either. We havent lost a single player, that we didnt want to lose, and we've signed Salah, Solanke and soon Robertson.

But if we come to the 1st of September and the squad looks the same. Then yes, all hell should break out. I agree.

Well done Hansern. I simply couldn't be arsed replying to hysterically inaccurate posts.

This window, and the insane fees, have shown that although there has been a massive increase in PL income per club it hasn't made it any easier to buy players in demand. The reasons for this are that, whilst maybe not increasing to the same extent of the PL, the BL, Serie A and La Liga clubs have all received substantial boosts to their coffers too, their leagues haven't just stood still. I'm sure I posted details of the huge increases in BL income recently but most probably ignored it.

For example look at the huge fees Juve and AC have paid out this Summer. AC Milan have spent more than any other club in Europe (£175m, that could be Euros, I forget).

This naturally means that clubs are less willing to accept huge fees from PL teams simply because they have less need of the money - and in the BL since the communities own their clubs it becomes a lot more difficult to do deals anyway. It is nowhere near as simple as 'pay the asking fee' which is the doltishly simplistic retort some are making.

 

[Frogfish]

I think the VVD deal is 50/50, but we'll get Keita. We wouldn't be persisting if there wasn't a deal to be done.

I actually think that's the other way around. It is also possible that we are close to being resigned to not getting Keita now but are trying to tie him done for next Summer when we can just pay the release clause. If we don't then of course it's likely we won't get him at all.

Klopp has always said he's playing the long game and that he is prepared to wait for what he considers to be the 'right players', many here have short memories and many here are as impatient as fuck. However even I understand their impatience and I too also fear what may happen if we fail to strengthen in certain areas. At this juncture though I can understand Klopp/LFC not giving up on their prime targets. If we have that much cash to throw around then securing 2nd/3rd choices shouldn't be so difficult though naturally we'll overpay.

 

[Frogfish]

Agreed.

I know Klopp seems to have a philosophy of top targets or nobody, which is admirable in a way, but we surely should have alternatives scouted who are not very far behind the ability levels of the first choice. Not every second target has to be Jermain fucking Pennant. Assuming Sakho is off we need a centre back badly. Matip and Lovren are prone to picking up small injuries and Klavan is Klavan. Surely a scouting network should be able to look beyond VVD. There's more than one good centre back out there.

Just because we haven't moved on them yet doesn't mean we don't have them (though as I said above Klopp is prepared to wait if he thinks we have a strong chance of securing our prime targets). Klopp/LFC may just have more patience than fans on forums !

 

[Mors]

Do people think it's a case of we call up the other club, make an offer, they put us on hold, then tell us 30seconds later whether offer has been accepted?
Some of these transfers take months, if not longer to do. You have to get a deal with the clubs (and the payment structure), you have to agree a deal with the players, then the agents - all of these need to match up and take time. I dont think it's a case of waiting about, doing nothing, plenty is going on in the background, but these deals take time.
So if you know this process for a player is in motion, and moving along as expected - do you bomb out and move onto your next target to make the fans happy?

 

[Woland]

We got rid of zillions of squad players since klopp arrived and haven't replaced them. Apart from stars that are going to improve us we defo need a few more bodies to be able to slot in when injuries invariably happen. Can't see how we're expected to compete in the league and CL without cover all over the pitch. We're way short.

 

[Frogfish]

..... but he has also played Milner at LB for a season, so I do worry that we might buy nobody at all in the CM and CB positions.

That's a really poor example to use. Surprisingly Milner ended up with some of the best stats of any LB in Europe, not just the PL, last season. e.g. 57 chances created (best in the PL) to 39 of Walker (4th in the stats). So this just goes to prove that, quite obviously, Klopp/coaching team know/see a lot more than we as fans do. Klopp has history in this regard having done it twice with converted FBs at Dortmund.

This isn't to say that Milner doesn't have his weaknesses (all players do) and should remain as our first choice LB, or that I'd not have loved a 'Tierney', but that also because it was quite obvious we didn't have anyone we could rely on to give Milner a breather and come the end of the season he was literally just about out on his feet.

 

[rurikbird]

I'm pretty sure we're already in contact with other targets and clubs, but I dont think we're there yet regarding giving up on our first choice targets.

If we start get publicly linked with alternative targets, that would probably lead the Keita and VVD camps to believe we are not that serious about it and that they shouldn't put their own reputation and relationships in their current clubs on the line in order to come here. We are asking a lot from these players - to semi-publicly reject other suitors and make it clear the "only" want to come to LFC, to kick up the fuss and as last resort even refuse to play (as Keita seemingly did yesterday at a friendly). They have to know we are being equally committed to them, that we are not talking simultaneously to 3-4 clubs and players and seeing where we can score a better deal. Do we have a list of alternative targets? I bloody hope we do, and I'm actually sure we do - but we are not going beyond the most preliminary soundings-out to other targets on the list, because the club clearly thinks those 2 deals can still be done. Hope they are right.

 

[rurikbird]

We got rid of zillions of squad players since klopp arrived and haven't replaced them. Apart from stars that are going to improve us we defo need a few more bodies to be able to slot in when injuries invariably happen. Can't see how we're expected to compete in the league and CL without cover all over the pitch. We're way short.

We have the most promising crop of youngsters coming up in a long time - players like Ejaria, Trent, Woodburn, Grujic etc already filled gaps in last season's cup competitions and this season some of them might be ready for a further step. So I actually don't agree that we are way short - I'd rather give playing time to genuinely talented youngsters than overgrown no-hopers we had as "squad players" in the past.

Some clubs, like Chelsea and Barca, take it rather to the extreme with 4-5 youngesters regularly in the match day squad, if we just have 2-3 promising young players on the bench at any time I think that would be a good balance.

 

[Frogfish]

We got rid of zillions of squad players since klopp arrived and haven't replaced them. Apart from stars that are going to improve us we defo need a few more bodies to be able to slot in when injuries invariably happen. Can't see how we're expected to compete in the league and CL without cover all over the pitch. We're way short.

Whilst clearly that was true last season and we got caught out with a horrific injury list, I'm not sure that will be the case this season. We have moved to cover the forwards so tick that off, Mane and pace are covered, another tick. AM well covered. We only use one striker at a time so with Ings and Solanke plus Studge and Origi that one is well covered too.

FB positions now both have backups, both of whom could eventually replace the incumbents. This really leaves CM where we are probably one body short and CB where we may be two bodies short (though I've a feeling Klopp will persist with Klavan at #4). At the end of last season I thought we may need 7 or more new bodies but probably 5-6 will do it and we are already halfway there, IF the remaining three are competing for starting positions and not just to make up squad numbers.

 

[Woland]

That's me told.

Still not happy though

 

[manwithnoname]

Whilst clearly that was true last season and we got caught out with a horrific injury list, I'm not sure that will be the case this season. We have moved to cover the forwards so tick that off, Mane and pace are covered, another tick. AM well covered. We only use one striker at a time so with Ings and Solanke plus Studge and Origi that one is well covered too.

FB positions now both have backups, both of whom could eventually replace the incumbents. This really leaves CM where we are probably one body short and CB where we may be two bodies short (though I've a feeling Klopp will persist with Klavan at #4). At the end of last season I thought we may need 7 or more new bodies but probably 5-6 will do it and we are already halfway there, IF the remaining three are competing for starting positions and not just to make up squad numbers.

Yeah, it's obviously not as simple as 'buy 4-5 players' - they have to be quality - but from a numbers perspective 'only' 5 new signings would be acceptable, given the obvious need - as Woland has just pointed out - for a far better squad and cover for various positions.

 

[Rosco]

Do people think it's a case of we call up the other club, make an offer, they put us on hold, then tell us 30seconds later whether offer has been accepted?
Some of these transfers take months, if not longer to do. You have to get a deal with the clubs (and the payment structure), you have to agree a deal with the players, then the agents - all of these need to match up and take time. I dont think it's a case of waiting about, doing nothing, plenty is going on in the background, but these deals take time.
So if you know this process for a player is in motion, and moving along as expected - do you bomb out and move onto your next target to make the fans happy?

I think most people understand that but isn't that why we should be moving onto other targets at this point ?

We can of course hang around until the last week of August and then realise that trying to sign players on long contracts from clubs not looking to sell is a mugs game. At which point we'll be facing into a season with European games with a similar thin squad that couldn't cope with domestic competition.

Thats leaving aside the fact that VVD for 65m as a signing in principle is a dreadful idea. The rest of the crazy insane market is paying half that for similarly established (and younger) centre backs.

 

[Modo]

Buying players in August when teams have settled their squad is a great idea.

 

[Mors]

I think most people understand that but isn't that why we should be moving onto other targets at this point ?

We can of course hang around until the last week of August and then realise that trying to sign players on long contracts from clubs not looking to sell is a mugs game. At which point we'll be facing into a season with European games with a similar thin squad that couldn't cope with domestic competition.

Thats leaving aside the fact that VVD for 65m as a signing in principle is a dreadful idea. The rest of the crazy insane market is paying half that for similarly established (and younger) centre backs.

Why should we move on to our next targets if things are moving along as expected and as planned? I'm not saying that is the case, but I'm not privy to negotiations so have no idea where we're at. And also, again, we may well have moved on to our next targets and are down the road with them now instead, we have no idea that we aren't.

 

[peekay]

Why should we move on to our next targets if things are moving along as expected and as planned? I'm not saying that is the case, but I'm not privy to negotiations so have no idea where we're at. And also, again, we may well have moved on to our next targets and are down the road with them now instead, we have no idea that we aren't.

What plan? You think leaking VVD news and then making a groveling apology is a part of a larger transfer strategy?

 

[manwithnoname]

What plan? You think leaking VVD news and then making a groveling apology is a part of a larger transfer strategy?

Hahahaha. Evil mastermind stuff.

 

[Mors]

What plan? You think leaking VVD news and then making a groveling apology is a part of a larger transfer strategy?

Again, all based on assumption without any of the facts to hand. Do you know the name of the person who leaked the VVD news to the press? I certainly dont. Was it his agent? Was it one of our lot? If so, who? Was it done on purpose or by accident. I don't think it's our intention to fuck the transfers up, and we've 2.5 others over the line.
Us as fans have absolutely no visibility or idea how the transfer process works or how complex is, but assume the club are shit at doing them based on what is read on twitter or the tabloids. Pissing in the dark here. We might be doing really well with our targets, but we might also be doing terrible and all of the clubs doing, we have absolutely no idea so it's no point going off at the club is it, and assuming we should move on when we've fuck all idea where we're actually at.

 

[peekay]

Again, all based on assumption without any of the facts to hand. Do you know the name of the person who leaked the VVD news to the press? I certainly dont. Was it his agent? Was it one of our lot? If so, who? Was it done on purpose or by accident. I don't think it's our intention to fuck the transfers up, and we've 2.5 others over the line.
Us as fans have absolutely no visibility or idea how the transfer process works or how complex is, but assume the club are shit at doing them based on what is read on twitter or the tabloids. Pissing in the dark here. We might be doing really well with our targets, but we might also be doing terrible and all of the clubs doing, we have absolutely no idea so it's no point going off at the club is it, and assuming we should move on when we've fuck all idea where we're actually at.

I agree with the general gist of your post. Maybe it is a personality thing - I am pessimist by nature and my pessimism gets multiplied by a 1000 when it comes to LFC.

When things are hazy I guess we all look for clues and signs which fit our narrative. Over the last two years or so, I have always complained about the way we do transfers ( not the money we spent but the entire recruitment process). I have also stated that we have had managers who were good enough tactically to win us the league but we dont have the necessary footballing infrastructure to support them. I am seeing this transfer window as a continuation of the same. The VVD transfer fiasco doesnt help.

We are a couple of niggling injuries to Lovren and Matip ( both of whom don't seem to be the robust type) from a CB partnership of Klavan and Gomez.

 

[manwithnoname]

Again, all based on assumption without any of the facts to hand. Do you know the name of the person who leaked the VVD news to the press? I certainly dont. Was it his agent? Was it one of our lot? If so, who? Was it done on purpose or by accident. I don't think it's our intention to fuck the transfers up, and we've 2.5 others over the line.
Us as fans have absolutely no visibility or idea how the transfer process works or how complex is, but assume the club are shit at doing them based on what is read on twitter or the tabloids. Pissing in the dark here. We might be doing really well with our targets, but we might also be doing terrible and all of the clubs doing, we have absolutely no idea so it's no point going off at the club is it, and assuming we should move on when we've fuck all idea where we're actually at.

There's no debate at all about us totally fucking up the transfer negotiations of VDV. None.

 

[peekay]

There's no debate at all about us totally fucking up the transfer negotiations of VDV. None.

Yup. Even if we get the VVD transfer over the line it will be at an additional 5-10 million cost. No doubt about the fact that we screwed it up.

 

[Hansern]

Yup. Even if we get the VVD transfer over the line it will be at an additional 5-10 million cost. No doubt about the fact that we screwed it up.

Indeed, that was a horrific fuck up. And as you say, if get VVD signed it will cost us some extra money. No doubt.

 

[Mors]

There's no debate at all about us totally fucking up the transfer negotiations of VDV. None.

The only thing I see as a fuck up is that somehow it got to the press that Klopp and VVD had met personally met re a transfer. It seems that it happens with all transfers now and is sort of an unwritten fact between clubs/players/agents. And Soton do it themselves. The only cockup is that it got to the press, and we don't know (I dont, maybe you do) who let it slip to them. What about if it was his agent? Then how is it our fuckup?

 

[peekay]

The only thing I see as a fuck up is that somehow it got to the press that Klopp and VVD had met personally met re a transfer. It seems that it happens with all transfers now and is sort of an unwritten fact between clubs/players/agents. And Soton do it themselves. The only cockup is that it got to the press, and we don't know (I dont, maybe you do) who let it slip to them. What about if it was his agent? Then how is it our fuckup?

The news was reported simultaneously by our usual sources - Joyce et al - whom we normally brief. No way, VVDs agent brief the three journalist we commonly brief to leak this news.

 

[Oncy]

Well, it seems not much thought went into yours.
We're not gonna sign a GK. And we probably wont sign CF either, unless Studge leaves.

Chelsea are having a hard time getting their targets. Conte has been pissed off. They finally agreed something for Bakayoko and Morata just now.

Arsenal have made a free transfer signing and Lacazette.

Spurs have bought none so far. 0.

City have bought 3 players and are about to buy another right back for 30 mill for some reason aswell. Who didnt look particuarly good for Real Madrid.

This is from Mourinho yesterday. Minimum fuss? All rosy and shiny? Even he is saying its a difficult window.

Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho admits he is not happy with the club’s performance in the summer transfer window so far, despite signing Romelu Lukaku and Victor Lindelof.
The Red Devils have only managed to land two of four top targets, according to Mourinho, who concedes it is a difficult market to operate in at the moment.

Still, the Portuguese is hoping to bring at least one more player in, with reports linking the club with Chelsea midfielder Nemanja Matic and Inter Milan winger Ivan Perisic.
It remains to be seen which is the more realistic target for United, but Mourinho clearly won’t be satisfied with how his side have done unless they bring in one more player in the midfield area.
‘We always want more,’ Mourinho told ESPN. ‘We always feel there is room to improve, and I cannot say that I am happy with our transfer window.
‘What I can also say is that it is a difficult transfer window and I don’t blame anyone – it is just a reality of things. The market is going in such a direction that many players are difficult to get, not to say impossible.
‘Every club is powerful and they don’t want to sell or their demands are really high, so the market is difficult.
‘What I will say is that, a long time ago, we thought about four players to strengthen our squad, but it is really hard to do it. If we do the third and forget the fourth, I would be quite happy with that because I know it is difficult.’


Now, Robertson is due for a medical today. So the LB can be crossed of the list.

We all knew that getting a deal done for these two players would be difficult, Keita and VVD.
But I'm more than happy to get our targets late in the window, then not getting them and moving on to someone of lesser quality.
It comes a time when you have to move on, but I dont think that we've come to that point yet.
If the next rumoured bid for Keita is rejected, then we should move one.
If VVD doesnt hand in a transfer request and kicks up a fuss (as rumoured yesterday), then we might have to move on soon from that aswell.

But Klopp seems adament that he wants those two, and seeing as we're not currently looking at other alternatives (actively), then we must be getting some encouragement in regards to getting a deal done.

All I'm saying is that, yes, it would have been nice to have all these deals in place but its the 20th July. Its not the time to panic or throw a hissy fit just yet compared to other clubs transfer business.

If we start with the players we got now against Watford, it wont be the end of the world either. We havent lost a single player, that we didnt want to lose, and we've signed Salah, Solanke and soon Robertson.

But if we come to the 1st of September and the squad looks the same. Then yes, all hell should break out. I agree.

Good post.
I disagree wholeheartedly but thanks for taking a bit of time over it rather than a snide soundbite (your first effort)

 

[Hansern]

Good post.
I disagree wholeheartedly but thanks for taking a bit of time over it rather than a snide soundbite (your first effort)

Sound mate, the first one was indeed shite.

 

[Judge Jules]

Indeed, that was a horrific fuck up. And as you say, if get VVD signed it will cost us some extra money. No doubt.

Disagree. There's doubt all right. The way the player's dug his heels in with Southampton has left them with precious little wriggle room and we absolutely must not fall for the idea that they're still in the driving-seat.

 

[Oncy]

I do like the idea of not worrying until the 1st september.
I wish I was that guy.
Right now im concerned that we have a qualifier soon, and even the most optimistic poster must agree
On our BEST day
Mignolet OK
Milner OK
Lovren OK
Matip OK
Clyne OK
Henderson OK
Wijnaldum OK
Coutinho BRILLIANT
Mane BRILLIANT
Firmino OK
Salah UNKNOWN


Is not the most inspiring representation you will ever see, with the bench even worse.
4 tropies to play for, starting in a fortnight and our spine is still about as reliable as Stephen Hawkins

Im not panicking, im pissed off, because time and time again this club inspires no confidence in getting it right.

There isnt a single poster here who couldnt put together a list of targets we could have boxed off by now.

Anyway. Im neggy. Others arent. Its all love. I hope you lot are right.

 

[Woland]

Did a big fuck off stupid post but there was no need for it. Here's the TL😀R version.

The night before the last game of the season I was sat next to John Henry, Tom Werner and Linda for a couple of hours and they couldn't have looked more bored and unhappy to be somewhere. I really think they're going through the motions.

 

[doctor_mac]

Did a big fuck off stupid post but there was no need for it. Here's the TL😀R version.

The night before the last game of the season I was sat next to John Henry, Tom Werner and Linda for a couple of hours and they couldn't have looked more bored and unhappy to be somewhere. I really think they're going through the motions.

I liked the big post.