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VS Wolves.

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[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403321#msg1403321 date=1316684408]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403319#msg1403319 date=1316684305]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

8pts down? oh mark...mark...mark...

we're 3pts off top 3 and that is our target for this season.
[/quote]

We've dropped 8pts, 5 against teams we should have beaten.
[/quote]

'meh' I think we're going okay given the amount of players we're introducing to the team, of course you can argue we shouldn't be attempting to introduce so many players at once but I think over the course of a season (and that's how I always evaluate our overall performances) I think the new players will contribute to strong finish and that isn't going to happen if they are bit part players.

I see it like this;
when carroll is confident he will score the most goals of all our strikers including suarez

when henderson is confident he will create shedloads of chances
played in downing 1-1 with the keeper - fluffed
played in suarez 1-1 with the keeper - fluffed
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403325#msg1403325 date=1316684727]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

After spending £50 odd mil on these 2 and being only a few games in i'd be more concerned if Kenny wasn't willing to stick by them tbh Mark. We've got Wolves at home where you'd hope we should have the lions share of the ball, sounds like a good place for Hendo and Carroll to gain some confidence to me mate.


[/quote]


^^^
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

This is spot on. I like the flashes both players have shown for us and I do hope they become great, I hope every one of our new signings does. I just think at the minute they are detrimental. Last night some of the passing and movement was excellent at times. It's something we should be building on.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403325#msg1403325 date=1316684727]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

After spending £50 odd mil on these 2 and being only a few games in i'd be more concerned if Kenny wasn't willing to stick by them tbh Mark. We've got Wolves at home where you'd hope we should have the lions share of the ball, sounds like a good place for Hendo and Carroll to gain some confidence to me mate.
[/quote]

How much were Berbatov and Carrick bought for at their respective times? Both fee's I felt at the time were excessive yet they are both in and out of the team. It's the market were in you pay big money to have good players as part of "the squad". Which is something Kenny has intimated many times in his pre-match interviews. If a player isn't on form he should be dropped.
 
'Meh'? So you're happy with the way things are going, despite the fact these two have been largely anonymous so far and have contributed to our dropped points? Over the course of the season is the best time to judge their overall impact, I'm talking about current form. I'm not saying banish them indefinitely, a team should be picked on form.

'When confident' - Well there lies the point, right now they're not, we need to build that confidence by putting them into winning scenario's with less pressure.
 
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=46966.msg1403330#msg1403330 date=1316685191]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403325#msg1403325 date=1316684727]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

After spending £50 odd mil on these 2 and being only a few games in i'd be more concerned if Kenny wasn't willing to stick by them tbh Mark. We've got Wolves at home where you'd hope we should have the lions share of the ball, sounds like a good place for Hendo and Carroll to gain some confidence to me mate.
[/quote]

How much were Berbatov and Carrick bought for at their respective times? Both fee's I felt at the time were excessive yet they are both in and out of the team. It's the market were in you pay big money to have good players as part of "the squad". Which is something Kenny has intimated many times in his pre-match interviews. If a player isn't on form he should be dropped.
[/quote]

we're not talking about manu and their glittering array of stars we're talking about liverpool.
I look at carroll and see someone who would outscore all of our strikers if we can play to his strength (not hoofball, quality crosses) and in henderson I can see him creating more chances for the forwards than all of our strikers save gerrard, this season which of the midfielders has played someone in on goal more than henderson? certainly not adam or downing that's for sure.
 
----------------Reina-----------------
-Kelly---Skrtel---Carragher---Enrique-
-------Henderson----Lucas------------
--Kuyt--------Suarez------Downing---
----------------Bellamy------------------

Good blend of hard work, skill and pace up top. 2 anchoring who will keep it quick and simple (providing Lucas isn't in dwell on the ball mode) and a decent enough back 4. Adam and Carroll to come on if a more direct approach is required.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403331#msg1403331 date=1316685255]
'Meh'? So you're happy with the way things are going, despite the fact these two have been largely anonymous so far and have contributed to our dropped points? Over the course of the season is the best time to judge their overall impact, I'm talking about current form. I'm not saying banish them indefinitely, a team should be picked on form.

'When confident' - Well there lies the point, right now they're not, we need to build that confidence by putting them into winning scenario's with less pressure.
[/quote]

I didn't say I was 'happy', I think we are doing 'okay', there is no panic from me and certainly not after the spurs game.

dropped points;
s'land - we created enough chances to win TWO games so there are positives
stock - we created enough chances to win TWO games so there are positives
spurs - bad day at the office

I would rather we bedded in carroll and henderson now and reaped the benefit during the winter months when we usually disappear up our own arse. I can understand you point of view but we paid for potential and will have to be patient while we realise that potential, sure we could and maybe should bought the finished article but we didn't so now we have to just get on with it.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46859.msg1402950#msg1402950 date=1316634290]drop henderson and bring in bellamy[/quote]

aaaand, bring in Henderson.




[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403303#msg1403303 date=1316683217]
----------------Reina-----------------
-Kelly------Skrtel---Carra---Enrique--------
Henderson----Lucas----Adam-----Downing
-------Bellamy------Suarez------------
[/quote]
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403333#msg1403333 date=1316685480]
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=46966.msg1403330#msg1403330 date=1316685191]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403325#msg1403325 date=1316684727]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

After spending £50 odd mil on these 2 and being only a few games in i'd be more concerned if Kenny wasn't willing to stick by them tbh Mark. We've got Wolves at home where you'd hope we should have the lions share of the ball, sounds like a good place for Hendo and Carroll to gain some confidence to me mate.
[/quote]

How much were Berbatov and Carrick bought for at their respective times? Both fee's I felt at the time were excessive yet they are both in and out of the team. It's the market were in you pay big money to have good players as part of "the squad". Which is something Kenny has intimated many times in his pre-match interviews. If a player isn't on form he should be dropped.
[/quote]

we're not talking about manu and their glittering array of stars we're talking about liverpool.
I look at carroll and see someone who would outscore all of our strikers if we can play to his strength (not hoofball, quality crosses) and in henderson I can see him creating more chances for the forwards than all of our strikers save gerrard, this season which of the midfielders has played someone in on goal more than henderson? certainly not adam or downing that's for sure.
[/quote]

I know who were fucking talking about. Who they player for his totally irrelevant. I was just using Utd as an example with regards to fee's being played for players in response to K4PM's post. *AT THE MOMENT* I look at Carroll and see a fucking useless lump who cant be arsed. When I look at Henderson I see a rabbit in headlights who is too afraid to express himself and impact on the game. For what it's worth I'd like to see Henderson deputise for Gerrard in an AM role because let's be honest, he just isn't cutting at RM at the moment. He has a good engine and good first touch passing, we know he can score too from in and outside the box. He's better suited to the middle and wasted out wide.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=46966.msg1403339#msg1403339 date=1316686170]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46859.msg1402950#msg1402950 date=1316634290]drop henderson and bring in bellamy[/quote]

aaaand, bring in Henderson.




[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403303#msg1403303 date=1316683217]
----------------Reina-----------------
-Kelly------Skrtel---Carra---Enrique--------
Henderson----Lucas----Adam-----Downing
-------Bellamy------Suarez------------
[/quote]
[/quote]


I definately want bellamy to play but I also want henderson and carroll to be nursed through their lack of confidence. I guess that's a selection headache, but kenny is paid to make the big decisions.
 
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=46966.msg1403341#msg1403341 date=1316686566]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403333#msg1403333 date=1316685480]
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=46966.msg1403330#msg1403330 date=1316685191]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403325#msg1403325 date=1316684727]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403317#msg1403317 date=1316684091]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403313#msg1403313 date=1316683901]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

I think Kenny needs to back them mate, not stick them on the bench.
[/quote]

In some respects I'd agree, but we're already 8pts down. They should have played in the Cup. They need to be on the bench and coming into a game where we're winning so they can show what they do with less pressure and build up some kind of form. Throwing them into games at the minute is doing nothing for us or them.
[/quote]

After spending £50 odd mil on these 2 and being only a few games in i'd be more concerned if Kenny wasn't willing to stick by them tbh Mark. We've got Wolves at home where you'd hope we should have the lions share of the ball, sounds like a good place for Hendo and Carroll to gain some confidence to me mate.
[/quote]

How much were Berbatov and Carrick bought for at their respective times? Both fee's I felt at the time were excessive yet they are both in and out of the team. It's the market were in you pay big money to have good players as part of "the squad". Which is something Kenny has intimated many times in his pre-match interviews. If a player isn't on form he should be dropped.
[/quote]

we're not talking about manu and their glittering array of stars we're talking about liverpool.
I look at carroll and see someone who would outscore all of our strikers if we can play to his strength (not hoofball, quality crosses) and in henderson I can see him creating more chances for the forwards than all of our strikers save gerrard, this season which of the midfielders has played someone in on goal more than henderson? certainly not adam or downing that's for sure.
[/quote]

I know who were fucking talking about. Who they player for his totally irrelevant. I was just using Utd as an example with regards to fee's being played for players in response to K4PM's post. *AT THE MOMENT* I look at Carroll and see a fucking useless lump who cant be arsed. When I look at Henderson I see a rabbit in headlights who is too afraid to express himself and impact on the game. For what it's worth I'd like to see Henderson deputise for Gerrard in an AM role because let's be honest, he just isn't cutting at RM at the moment. He has a good engine and good first touch passing, we know he can score too from in and outside the box. He's better suited to the middle and wasted out wide.
[/quote]


downing----henderson---lucas----bellamy
-----------carroll---suarez
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403343#msg1403343 date=1316686841]
[quote author=themn link=topic=46966.msg1403339#msg1403339 date=1316686170]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46859.msg1402950#msg1402950 date=1316634290]drop henderson and bring in bellamy[/quote]

aaaand, bring in Henderson.




[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403303#msg1403303 date=1316683217]
----------------Reina-----------------
-Kelly------Skrtel---Carra---Enrique--------
Henderson----Lucas----Adam-----Downing
-------Bellamy------Suarez------------
[/quote]
[/quote]


I definately want bellamy to play but I also want henderson and carroll to be nursed through their lack of confidence. I guess that's a selection headache, but kenny is paid to make the big decisions.
[/quote]

And the simple fact that Kuyt, Bellamy and Suarez worked pretty chuffing well (first half) last night, and Dirk *gasp* scored, means fuck all, when we're trying to win league games ?
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403305#msg1403305 date=1316683332]
------------------Pepe--------------------

Kelly------Carra----Skrtel----Enrique

-----Hendo----Stevie----Adam--------

---Suarez-----Carroll----Downing


Subs: Doni, Kuyt, Bellers, Coates, Robinson, Lucas, Maxi
[/quote]

On paper that´s probably our best XI.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=46966.msg1403348#msg1403348 date=1316688768]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403343#msg1403343 date=1316686841]
[quote author=themn link=topic=46966.msg1403339#msg1403339 date=1316686170]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46859.msg1402950#msg1402950 date=1316634290]drop henderson and bring in bellamy[/quote]

aaaand, bring in Henderson.




[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46966.msg1403303#msg1403303 date=1316683217]
----------------Reina-----------------
-Kelly------Skrtel---Carra---Enrique--------
Henderson----Lucas----Adam-----Downing
-------Bellamy------Suarez------------
[/quote]
[/quote]


I definately want bellamy to play but I also want henderson and carroll to be nursed through their lack of confidence. I guess that's a selection headache, but kenny is paid to make the big decisions.
[/quote]

And the simple fact that Kuyt, Bellamy and Suarez worked pretty chuffing well (first half) last night, and Dirk *gasp* scored, means fuck all, when we're trying to win league games ?
[/quote]

I thought kuyt was pretty wasteful with possession but he did take his goal well and his movement was pretty good as well.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403331#msg1403331 date=1316685255]
'Meh'? So you're happy with the way things are going, despite the fact these two have been largely anonymous so far and have contributed to our dropped points? Over the course of the season is the best time to judge their overall impact, I'm talking about current form. I'm not saying banish them indefinitely, a team should be picked on form.

'When confident' - Well there lies the point, right now they're not, we need to build that confidence by putting them into winning scenario's with less pressure.
[/quote]

Well like i've said Mark i'd stick with them as i think Kenny will come the weekend. We've got some big games coming up and we're going to need the likes of Hendo and Carroll to stand up sooner rather than later.

One question, why have you picked Maxi if it's all about form for you?
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403362#msg1403362 date=1316691221]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403331#msg1403331 date=1316685255]
'Meh'? So you're happy with the way things are going, despite the fact these two have been largely anonymous so far and have contributed to our dropped points? Over the course of the season is the best time to judge their overall impact, I'm talking about current form. I'm not saying banish them indefinitely, a team should be picked on form.

'When confident' - Well there lies the point, right now they're not, we need to build that confidence by putting them into winning scenario's with less pressure.
[/quote]
We've got some big games coming up and we're going to need the likes of Hendo and Carroll to stand up sooner rather than later.

[/quote]

that's how I see it. it's pointless hanging them out to dry, we're talking of writing off an investment of nearly 50 million (give or take).
 
I think based on the seven games weve seen so far id go with
Reina
Enrique
Skrtel
Carragher
Kelly

Lucas
Adam

Maxi
Suarez
Kuyt

Carroll.

Harsh on Downing and Bellamy who have done nothing wrong but that Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt axis looks really tasty to me.
Id have Downing, Bellamy and Gerrard ready to influence the game and id give Henderson a day off.
 
.............................................REINA.............................................

KELLY..........................SKRTEL.........CARRA.......................ENRIQUE

...........................................LUCAS..............................................

HENDERSON................................ADAM...........................DOWNING

.....................................SUAREZ.......CARROLL...............................

Yes.

*Could swap into a 4-3-3 as well. But those are the players I'd pick.
 
Few selection headaches for Kenny this weekend. All good of course.

I'd go for:

Reina

Kelly Carragher Skrtel Enrique

Gerrard Lucas Adam Downing

Kuyt Suarez


Few things to keep in mind:

- Merseyside Derby is a week Saturday and Gerrard will be absolutely desperate to start in that one hence i'd play him from the start vs Wolves. Give him 55-60 minutes and that'll stand him in good stead for the bitters. A risk of course but he'll have to be thrown in at some stage. He'll get through it on pure adrenaline.

- Whilst Bellamy was our best player last night, looked proper sharp. It's no secret his knees cause him problems and he's actually said he finds it difficult to play two matches per week. With that in mind, i'd put him on the bench.

- Suarez looks like he needs a rest but this is too important a game for us to give him it. Besides these next two games are a week apart so i'm sure he'll be fine.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46966.msg1403362#msg1403362 date=1316691221]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403331#msg1403331 date=1316685255]
'Meh'? So you're happy with the way things are going, despite the fact these two have been largely anonymous so far and have contributed to our dropped points? Over the course of the season is the best time to judge their overall impact, I'm talking about current form. I'm not saying banish them indefinitely, a team should be picked on form.

'When confident' - Well there lies the point, right now they're not, we need to build that confidence by putting them into winning scenario's with less pressure.
[/quote]

Well like i've said Mark i'd stick with them as i think Kenny will come the weekend. We've got some big games coming up and we're going to need the likes of Hendo and Carroll to stand up sooner rather than later.

One question, why have you picked Maxi if it's all about form for you?
[/quote]

Fair point, I've picked him really because he's the closest thing we've got to Ming or Stevie in terms of off the ball movement behind the front line, he's probably the player in there I'm least convinced (or arsed) about picking in all honesty.

Neil, like said no one is hanging them out to dry, they need to earn their place, like I said, talking about current form and that word you brought up, confidence.
 
Based on the beginning of the seasons evidence I'm not sure we can play 4-4-2 with the midfielders we have at present, I'd prefer it if we played 4-3-3 with Bellamy, Kuyt and Suarez as the front three.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46966.msg1403530#msg1403530 date=1316714948]
Based on the beginning of the seasons evidence I'm not sure we can play 4-4-2 with the midfielders we have at present, I'd prefer it if we played 4-3-3 with Bellamy, Kuyt and Suarez as the front three.
[/quote]

with downing, lucas and gerrard in midfield? I still think carroll is the biggest goal threat of the strikers so I'd rather him (carroll) than kuyt but kuyt does have better movement and will work the channels better.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46966.msg1403530#msg1403530 date=1316714948]
Based on the beginning of the seasons evidence I'm not sure we can play 4-4-2 with the midfielders we have at present, I'd prefer it if we played 4-3-3 with Bellamy, Kuyt and Suarez as the front three.
[/quote]

Yep!
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46966.msg1403522#msg1403522 date=1316712604]
Few selection headaches for Kenny this weekend. All good of course.

I'd go for:

Reina

Kelly Carragher Skrtel Enrique

Gerrard Lucas Adam Downing

Kuyt Suarez


Few things to keep in mind:

- Merseyside Derby is a week Saturday and Gerrard will be absolutely desperate to start in that one hence i'd play him from the start vs Wolves. Give him 55-60 minutes and that'll stand him in good stead for the bitters. A risk of course but he'll have to be thrown in at some stage. He'll get through it on pure adrenaline.

- Whilst Bellamy was our best player last night, looked proper sharp. It's no secret his knees cause him problems and he's actually said he finds it difficult to play two matches per week. With that in mind, i'd put him on the bench.

- Suarez looks like he needs a rest but this is too important a game for us to give him it. Besides these next two games are a week apart so i'm sure he'll be fine.
[/quote]

Spot on for me. We could switch to a 4-2-3-1 with that lot too. Bellers/Maxi/Carroll supersubs.
 
Reina
Kelly
Carra
Skrtel
Enrique
Henderson
Lucas
Adam
Downing
Bellamy
Carroll

Subs - Doni, Coates, Shelvey, Gerrard, Maxi, Suarez, Kuyt
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46966.msg1403307#msg1403307 date=1316683487]
I can't understand why people are advocating putting Carroll and Henderson in there on current form, they're both offering absolutely jack shit.
[/quote]

Truer words never typed.
 
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