Defoe gets in because of sheer volume. If Cantona stuck around instead of retiring at 30 you’d have a point.
top 10 PL era forwards?
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Defoe gets in because of sheer volume. If Cantona stuck around instead of retiring at 30 you’d have a point.
If it was abour nostalgia, I'd put him in there, but he's not better than anyone in my top 10.
Wright, Fowler, Owen, Sheringham, Cantona, Philips, Yorke, LeTissier, Zola, Klinsmann etc
Aww mate - you’re wide of the mark again.
“”Sheer volume” - Defoe’s goals to game ratio is one of the worst amongst strikers that have scored over 100 goals in the premier league - worse than Robbie Keane’s for example and definitely worse than Cantona’s.
Your first list - that’s basically the top 10 forwards in terms of goals scoring - yes?
Your second list is basically the top ten forwards based on goals per minute played.
Trouble is - it’s not just about goals, is it? You look at assists and the likes of Bergkamp start to feature highly.
You’d have to be an idiot to think Defoexwas a better player than Bergkamp - even though Defoe scored more goals and at a faster rate.
So you want my 10, in no particular order :
Shearer
Henry
Rooney
Wright
Bergkamp
Drogba
Suarez
Cantona
Agüero
Salah
Kane should probably be in there - but he’s a sloppy jawed wanker- so he can get fucked.
Ladyboy Ronaldo probably should be in there too.
Klinsman was a great shout too.
Also harsh on Van Persie, Owen, Fowler, Torres, Cole and Van Nistelrooy who were also fucking great.
You could argue for Sheringham, Hasselbank, Zola, Mane, Anelka, Ferdinand, Berbatov, Yorke, Tevez... even fucking Yakubu before Jermaine Defoe...
There’s also a pile of excellent strikes that turned up in the Premier League late on in their career - but if you look at their career elsewhere the were fucking boss- Weah, Shevcenko, Eto’o, Larsson... massive Zlatan would probably punch anyone who didn’t include him on the list.
Shearer
Henry
Cantona
Aguero
Bergkamp
Salah
Rooney
Fowler
Drogba
Ronaldo
Difficult list, as I would rather not have included any United players, but you can't ignore the facts.
I was 50/50 on whether to include Drogba but ultimately he was a great player.
Fowler is kinda the odd man out here, sadly. He obviously never won the league and never finished as PL top scorer. I think the rest of the list managed one or both of those things. But it's my list and I refuse to create a list of best forwards without including Robbie Fowler, so that's that.
Henry
Cantona
Aguero
Bergkamp
Salah
Rooney
Fowler
Drogba
Ronaldo
Difficult list, as I would rather not have included any United players, but you can't ignore the facts.
I was 50/50 on whether to include Drogba but ultimately he was a great player.
Fowler is kinda the odd man out here, sadly. He obviously never won the league and never finished as PL top scorer. I think the rest of the list managed one or both of those things. But it's my list and I refuse to create a list of best forwards without including Robbie Fowler, so that's that.
A strikers primary role is to score goals.
Having a list of the top 10 goal-scorers in the period your assessing is as objective as it comes.
Looking at a goals to games ratio is absolutely another perfectly acceptable criteria.
Sure you could weight those criteria and get a cross section and Defoe may not make it.
Cantona definitely wouldn’t as he there isn’t an objective metric to measure and the OP spoke about objectivity.
Add Cantona if you want, it’s your list but don’t have a go at other lists who actually have objective reasoning.
This is the problem with data, metrics, statistics, data science, etc. You think you're being objective when in reality you're saying defoe was a better player than cantona, which is breathtaking stupidity. Yet the data makes you think yeah nah it's totally fine.
Cantona was a PL great but I remember him often picking up the boal from the centre line. Though he was classed as SS, I remember him more as attacking Mid.
That's why he's not in my list. It was crime against humanity when Leeds sold him to Manure, he won them a lot of trophies, he was a great footballer, but he wasn't a striker
I disliked Cantona as much as everyone else did. Hatred does fade a bit once a player retires, admittedly but still, he was a cunt at the time.
However, five full seasons in the Premier League and four league titles. The one when they didn't win it, he was banned. All that following another league title at Leeds. And the year after he left United they came second.
He was one hell of a player. If we had signed him (which we could have done, easily) our 90s could have been rather different.
However, five full seasons in the Premier League and four league titles. The one when they didn't win it, he was banned. All that following another league title at Leeds. And the year after he left United they came second.
He was one hell of a player. If we had signed him (which we could have done, easily) our 90s could have been rather different.
They let him go for a measley £1.2m, and he - (Howard Wilkinson) still has no regrets, despite being relegated couple of seasons after
Story goes that Leeds called United to try to sign Denis Irwin. United rather predictably said no, but the conversation ended with Leeds buying noone yet selling their best player for around a million pounds.
For some context on transfer fees at the time, I believe we signed Paul Stewart the same summer for around double that amount.
For some context on transfer fees at the time, I believe we signed Paul Stewart the same summer for around double that amount.
See that’s the problem - you’re taking two basic stats and forgetting all the other ones that make forwards great.
A forward’s role, at its base level, is the same as any position- to help that team win games - whether that be scoring, assisting.. or generally being fucking awesome and creating space or fear in the opposition that allows other players to shine.
Some forwards are just plain finishers - Owen for example - others are tacticians - Bergkamp.. Cantona - occasionally you have a Rooney or Henry that’s great at everything.
Point is - your two lists are, what Dantes would and did suggest, based on incomplete and simplistic data.
Anyway- since you want to bang on about objectivity -
Rooney had a goals to game ratio of 0.42 and assists to game ratio of 0.21.
Cantona had a goals to game ratio of 0.45 and assist to game ratio of 0.36.
So Cantona beats Rooney in those measurable stats.
To put that assists ratio in to context - it’s one of the best - better than Shearer, Rooney, Henry & Bergkamp.
Again - it’s not just about the goals you score - it’s about the impact for the team - Cantona was scoring a reasonable amount while creating loads for his team.
So yeah - you’re wrong, as usual - so I will have a go at your bullshit lists - and your bullshit application of “objectivity”, thank you very much... and if you don’t like it - don’t post them, particularly in a thread designed for discussing that very issue.
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