Tonight Belongs To Alberto Aquilani
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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39312.msg1070563#msg1070563 date=1268738548]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39312.msg1070562#msg1070562 date=1268738495]
I didn't see the game, but it's aces to read that he had a stormer last night.
Well done Aquilani!
[/quote]Watch the clip farky posted in this thread. its beautiful.
[/quote]
Cheers oncy, i just watched it!
He looked rather special in those clips. I loved the tidy build up to Stevie's chance.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39312.msg1070562#msg1070562 date=1268738495]
I didn't see the game, but it's aces to read that he had a stormer last night.
Well done Aquilani!
[/quote]Watch the clip farky posted in this thread. its beautiful.
[/quote]
Cheers oncy, i just watched it!
He looked rather special in those clips. I loved the tidy build up to Stevie's chance.
He also went toe to toe with 'the wardrobe' for a good old shoulder and stood his ground.....cant see why people say he wouldnt stand up to more physical players like fletcher, essien etc. Bouba diops like a bear and aqua must be at least giving up 3 stone to him! Now im not saying he's the finished article strenght wise but if he can deliver performances like last night theres no reason Lucas should be on the pitch......EVER!
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=39312.msg1070573#msg1070573 date=1268739606]
He also went toe to toe with 'the wardrobe' for a good old shoulder and stood his ground.....cant see why people say he wouldnt stand up to more physical players like fletcher, essien etc. Bouba diops like a bear and aqua must be at least giving up 3 stone to him! Now im not saying he's the finished article strenght wise but if he can deliver performances like last night there's no reason Lucas should be on the pitch......EVER!
[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=39312.msg1070573#msg1070573 date=1268739606]
He also went toe to toe with 'the wardrobe' for a good old shoulder and stood his ground.....cant see why people say he wouldnt stand up to more physical players like fletcher, essien etc. Bouba diops like a bear and aqua must be at least giving up 3 stone to him! Now im not saying he's the finished article strenght wise but if he can deliver performances like last night theres no reason Lucas should be on the pitch......EVER!
[/quote]
I'd agree with that, in terms of strength there's not much difference between Aquilani and Lucas. Lucas offers a body to stand in front of the defense. Aquilani offers an option for the defense to pass to and the forwards the confidence that if they make a run there is a chance the ball will come quickly.
He also went toe to toe with 'the wardrobe' for a good old shoulder and stood his ground.....cant see why people say he wouldnt stand up to more physical players like fletcher, essien etc. Bouba diops like a bear and aqua must be at least giving up 3 stone to him! Now im not saying he's the finished article strenght wise but if he can deliver performances like last night theres no reason Lucas should be on the pitch......EVER!
[/quote]
I'd agree with that, in terms of strength there's not much difference between Aquilani and Lucas. Lucas offers a body to stand in front of the defense. Aquilani offers an option for the defense to pass to and the forwards the confidence that if they make a run there is a chance the ball will come quickly.
Aquialni is a star. I have never doubted his ability. However he has been fit since November, and rarely gets a sniff in. Either the gorund is to bumpy, or the game is too close, or the team is playing to well (???) or the team is not playing well and it is hard for him... There has been 100s of excuses for not putting him in there. 100 to many!
For all his depressing mediocrity, Lucas is better at breaking up the play than Aquilani. I'm not making a case for him, but let's not pretend otherwise.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39312.msg1070582#msg1070582 date=1268740766]
For all his depressing mediocrity, Lucas is better at breaking up the play than Aquilani. I'm not making a case for him, but let's not pretend otherwise.
[/quote]
Would you not say that having four defenders and masher is enough to break up play? If rafa is all about balance the balance needs to be between attack and defence rather than super defensive and rather defensive.
For all his depressing mediocrity, Lucas is better at breaking up the play than Aquilani. I'm not making a case for him, but let's not pretend otherwise.
[/quote]
Would you not say that having four defenders and masher is enough to break up play? If rafa is all about balance the balance needs to be between attack and defence rather than super defensive and rather defensive.
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=39312.msg1070584#msg1070584 date=1268740967]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39312.msg1070582#msg1070582 date=1268740766]
For all his depressing mediocrity, Lucas is better at breaking up the play than Aquilani. I'm not making a case for him, but let's not pretend otherwise.
[/quote]
Would you not say that having four defenders and masher is enough to break up play? If rafa is all about balance the balance needs to be between attack and defence rather than super defensive and rather defensive.
[/quote]
Yes, that is how I'd like to see us line up against the vast majority of teams, but your suggestion that Lucas is nothing more than a 'body to stand in front of the defense' suggests that Aquilani could be that 'body' as effectively, which he couldn't. His strengths lie elsewhere, as we saw last night.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39312.msg1070582#msg1070582 date=1268740766]
For all his depressing mediocrity, Lucas is better at breaking up the play than Aquilani. I'm not making a case for him, but let's not pretend otherwise.
[/quote]
Would you not say that having four defenders and masher is enough to break up play? If rafa is all about balance the balance needs to be between attack and defence rather than super defensive and rather defensive.
[/quote]
Yes, that is how I'd like to see us line up against the vast majority of teams, but your suggestion that Lucas is nothing more than a 'body to stand in front of the defense' suggests that Aquilani could be that 'body' as effectively, which he couldn't. His strengths lie elsewhere, as we saw last night.
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to the mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
It's all marginal, we play Masher and Lucas and invite pressure, or we play more attacking and press the opposition with the slight possibility of us getting caught on the break. Either way, the goals we've let in this season have largely come from dead balls or balls from the wide areas. So what difference does it make?
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to the mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
It's all marginal, we play Masher and Lucas and invite pressure, or we play more attacking and press the opposition with the slight possibility of us getting caught on the break. Either way, the goals we've let in this season have largely come from dead balls or balls from the wide areas. So what difference does it make?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39312.msg1070616#msg1070616 date=1268744300]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
[/quote]
And he can cross at a set piece!!!!
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
[/quote]
And he can cross at a set piece!!!!
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39312.msg1070614#msg1070614 date=1268744035]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070621#msg1070621 date=1268744717]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39312.msg1070614#msg1070614 date=1268744035]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[/quote]
In 8 games, or whatever it he's played, he has 4 or 5 assists and a goal with signs that it could very well improve. Who else would you play tere right now?
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39312.msg1070614#msg1070614 date=1268744035]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[/quote]
In 8 games, or whatever it he's played, he has 4 or 5 assists and a goal with signs that it could very well improve. Who else would you play tere right now?
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39312.msg1070622#msg1070622 date=1268744920]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070621#msg1070621 date=1268744717]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39312.msg1070614#msg1070614 date=1268744035]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[/quote]
In 8 games, or whatever it he's played, he has 4 or 5 assists and a goal with signs that it could very well improve. Who else would you play tere right now?
[/quote]
Honest question, as I have no clue, how many of those 8 games did we win? and were they against good sides?
Right now, and for the long run, I'd probably look to play what we played last night. Almost a 4-3-3, and with two good wide men providing pace (Babel) and guile (Maxi). We certainly will have to strengthen at LB though, as we're going to get punished on the counter against good sides with the space Aquilani leaves when he drifts.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070621#msg1070621 date=1268744717]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39312.msg1070614#msg1070614 date=1268744035]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
He doesnt score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team...good lord.
[/quote]
Not for someone who we'd want to play behind Torres (if that indeed does become his role). I don't think he's cut out for CM, at all. Certainly not in 2 man centre midfield partnership. In a 4-3-3, he could be very useful though.
[/quote]
In 8 games, or whatever it he's played, he has 4 or 5 assists and a goal with signs that it could very well improve. Who else would you play tere right now?
[/quote]
Honest question, as I have no clue, how many of those 8 games did we win? and were they against good sides?
Right now, and for the long run, I'd probably look to play what we played last night. Almost a 4-3-3, and with two good wide men providing pace (Babel) and guile (Maxi). We certainly will have to strengthen at LB though, as we're going to get punished on the counter against good sides with the space Aquilani leaves when he drifts.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39312.msg1070616#msg1070616 date=1268744300]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
It's all marginal, we player Masher and Lucas and invite pressure, or we play more attacking and press the opposition with the slight possibility of us getting caught on the break. Either way, the goals we've let in this season have largely come from dead balls or balls from the wide areas. So what difference does it make?
[/quote]
Good post above Mark. I agree with much of what you say but don't really rate Lucas to play in any type of game when everyone is fit. I'm not a hater, I just don't think he's very good (and his inclusion invites teams onto us as you said, without him being good enough to cope with that). Playing 2 DMs can work though, as Arsenal have shown with Petit and Vieira.. and United are showing now with Carrick and Fletcher. However, as Brendan said in another thread, one (if not) both have to be good in attacking sense as well (forward passing, intelligence, etc). Mascher and Essien (imo) would be a good partnership for example.
Also, it helps when you have many good attacking full backs and out-and-out forward players around those 2 DMs. Like Arsenal did with Cole, Lauren, Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg and Henry.. and how United now do with Rafael, Evra, Valencia, Nani, Rooney and Berbatov. We're half and half in respect, with decent defensive full backs/fowards in Insua and Kuyt mixed with decent-to-good attacking players like Maxi and Johnson.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39312.msg1070611#msg1070611 date=1268743801]
He was good last night but I still don't think he's a CM. Still looks like a complete luxury player. An 'Aimar' type who you'd put in the hole and just let drift anywhere. A bit like Aimar though, whilst he makes us pass the ball quicker/better, he doesn't score enough goals right now to be a fixture in the team or accomodate his luxury nature against a good side (especially away from home).
Yesterday was a good start, but it was only that.. a start.
[/quote]
I think he's in between. I don't think he seems scared to get stuck in, he's good in the air and will drop back to help mop up. The main concern is his build. But anyway, people need to stop looking at what system suits us best due to mentality that Rafa has instilled, and start looking at what will get us closer to what we want. If we want 4th place we've got to play like we want to win and stop concentrating so much on the opposition.
As said in previous threads, do United play with two DM's? There are different approaches that you can take to football, and their approach is to maintain possession and use that as the best form of defence. So while Lucas and Mascherano is useful in some instances, we'd be better off in other games playing with players who are likely to press the opposition back with their quality and movement, as we saw yesterday. Lucas and Mascherano haven't stopped us conceding goals anyway, because our defensive system is flawed and we have an inexperienced left back leaving holes everywhere.
In some games two DM's IS feasible, as has been proven in the past, but Mascherano as the defensive midfielder, with Gerrard and Aquilani playing more advanced, yet dropping back 'when' required is perfectly acceptable and it gives us more attacking poise.
It's all marginal, we player Masher and Lucas and invite pressure, or we play more attacking and press the opposition with the slight possibility of us getting caught on the break. Either way, the goals we've let in this season have largely come from dead balls or balls from the wide areas. So what difference does it make?
[/quote]
Good post above Mark. I agree with much of what you say but don't really rate Lucas to play in any type of game when everyone is fit. I'm not a hater, I just don't think he's very good (and his inclusion invites teams onto us as you said, without him being good enough to cope with that). Playing 2 DMs can work though, as Arsenal have shown with Petit and Vieira.. and United are showing now with Carrick and Fletcher. However, as Brendan said in another thread, one (if not) both have to be good in attacking sense as well (forward passing, intelligence, etc). Mascher and Essien (imo) would be a good partnership for example.
Also, it helps when you have many good attacking full backs and out-and-out forward players around those 2 DMs. Like Arsenal did with Cole, Lauren, Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg and Henry.. and how United now do with Rafael, Evra, Valencia, Nani, Rooney and Berbatov. We're half and half in respect, with decent defensive full backs/fowards in Insua and Kuyt mixed with decent-to-good attacking players like Maxi and Johnson.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=the count link=topic=39312.msg1070529#msg1070529 date=1268736964]
Alberto was indeed very very good and contributed enormously to the fine performance last night, notwithstanding the opposition. He undoubtedly has class. However before we all get totally carried away, one great game doesn't mean that he is the answer to all our prayers.
I also remember the game he played against Bolton where he was absolutely woeful and seemed intimidated by the physical nature of the Premiership. He was afforded the time and space last night to show off his considerably talent. The real test will come when things are a lot tighter in the centre, when he is hounded constantly by the opposition and he has little time or space to "do his thing"
I seem to recall that many posters were of the opinion that Alonso's poor second season form was more to do with the fact that he was "found out" When he was denied the time and space by the opposition to use the ball constructively, he and the team as a whole, were less effective. So was last season's brilliance down to Alonso becoming more effective under increased time and space constraits or did the midfield somehow work the opposition to the extent that Xabi had the required time and space?
Either way, Alberto, for all his promise has a long way to go to justify the £20m price tag. Let's hope, irrespective of how it happens, for all or sakes he does.
[/quote],
Good post.
The encouraging signs, however, are that he's more mobile than Alonso, who was your quarter-back style of CM - a player who sat back 'in the pocket' and dictated the tempo. In Xabi's second season, opposition managers asked their attacking players to hound him instead of our defence, and in some games it shut him down completely. Aquilani generally plays higher up, ghosting his way into more attacking areas, releasing the ball quickly and dangerously before a defensive player can get to him.
There are two things which could be a problem in that sense. Firstly: he's got his head up so quickly to look for a ball that his first touch sometimes can be pretty average and against better sides he'd lose it. And secondly: is the physical nature of playing in a more advanced position - does he have that complete confidence in his body to hack it against the Bolton's of this world? I'd suggest: not yet.
Alberto was indeed very very good and contributed enormously to the fine performance last night, notwithstanding the opposition. He undoubtedly has class. However before we all get totally carried away, one great game doesn't mean that he is the answer to all our prayers.
I also remember the game he played against Bolton where he was absolutely woeful and seemed intimidated by the physical nature of the Premiership. He was afforded the time and space last night to show off his considerably talent. The real test will come when things are a lot tighter in the centre, when he is hounded constantly by the opposition and he has little time or space to "do his thing"
I seem to recall that many posters were of the opinion that Alonso's poor second season form was more to do with the fact that he was "found out" When he was denied the time and space by the opposition to use the ball constructively, he and the team as a whole, were less effective. So was last season's brilliance down to Alonso becoming more effective under increased time and space constraits or did the midfield somehow work the opposition to the extent that Xabi had the required time and space?
Either way, Alberto, for all his promise has a long way to go to justify the £20m price tag. Let's hope, irrespective of how it happens, for all or sakes he does.
[/quote],
Good post.
The encouraging signs, however, are that he's more mobile than Alonso, who was your quarter-back style of CM - a player who sat back 'in the pocket' and dictated the tempo. In Xabi's second season, opposition managers asked their attacking players to hound him instead of our defence, and in some games it shut him down completely. Aquilani generally plays higher up, ghosting his way into more attacking areas, releasing the ball quickly and dangerously before a defensive player can get to him.
There are two things which could be a problem in that sense. Firstly: he's got his head up so quickly to look for a ball that his first touch sometimes can be pretty average and against better sides he'd lose it. And secondly: is the physical nature of playing in a more advanced position - does he have that complete confidence in his body to hack it against the Bolton's of this world? I'd suggest: not yet.
S
Squiggles
Guest
That's true, but we have seen a few glimpses of him against more physical, competitive opposition and he's looked intimidated and failed to perform. And rightly or wrongly, Rafa must have his reasons for looking after him so carefully - maybe he's not being getting stuck in with the physical stuff in training, etc, etc. We just don't know.
Whenever I was coming back from injury with Rugby and was thrust into my first district game since, where everyone is massive, it took me a good while to break the mental barrier and for me to play my game. Sometimes it takes being smashed where you were formally injured to finally feel at ease on the pitch.
After last night, though, I don't think Benitez has much of a choice apart from fielding him pretty regularly between now and the end of the season. We need to win a lot of games to be within a chance of Europe and for the most part, Aquilani makes that more possible. I also hope last night means he won't be considered to be sold this summer, because it would be a crying shame. I really think that's how big last night was for him.
Whenever I was coming back from injury with Rugby and was thrust into my first district game since, where everyone is massive, it took me a good while to break the mental barrier and for me to play my game. Sometimes it takes being smashed where you were formally injured to finally feel at ease on the pitch.
After last night, though, I don't think Benitez has much of a choice apart from fielding him pretty regularly between now and the end of the season. We need to win a lot of games to be within a chance of Europe and for the most part, Aquilani makes that more possible. I also hope last night means he won't be considered to be sold this summer, because it would be a crying shame. I really think that's how big last night was for him.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Morientes must have been a better midfielder than we ever gave him credit for.
I've not been quiet at all, I'm fucking delighted he had a magnificent game, because it shows what happens when Lucas doesn't play and will hopefully mean the end of Lucarse's painful Liverpool career.
That said, my fears about Purple being unsuited to this league, and another Morientes, are in no way going to be allayed by one great display against a dismal and doomed Portsmouth
He needs to do it week in, week out against the top. Middle and bottom clubs
That said, my fears about Purple being unsuited to this league, and another Morientes, are in no way going to be allayed by one great display against a dismal and doomed Portsmouth
He needs to do it week in, week out against the top. Middle and bottom clubs
What a fantastic performance, that video is brilliant!
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39312.msg1070640#msg1070640 date=1268746897]
Good post.
The encouraging signs, however, are that he's more mobile than Alonso, who was your quarter-back style of CM - a player who sat back 'in the pocket' and dictated the tempo. In Xabi's second season, opposition managers asked their attacking players to hound him instead of our defence, and in some games it shut him down completely. Aquilani generally plays higher up, ghosting his way into more attacking areas, releasing the ball quickly and dangerously before a defensive player can get to him.
There are two things which could be a problem in that sense. Firstly: he's got his head up so quickly to look for a ball that his first touch sometimes can be pretty average and against better sides he'd lose it. And secondly: is the physical nature of playing in a more advanced position - does he have that complete confidence in his body to hack it against the Bolton's of this world? I'd suggest: not yet.
[/quote]
Your point about Alberto's greater mobility is I believe a very relevent one. He made some great runs last night and received the ball in some excellent positions with time and space to hurt the opposition. In doing that he should be that much harder to track and constantly close down.
Hopefully also, what you have said about his earlier distaste for the physical side of the game, may be more down to his return from a long term serious injury than his general on field demeanour.
I suspect that the amount of game time that he gets from now until the end of the season depends on whether Rafa is prepared to at least partially abandon his normal rigid system. I am not on the "Lucas is shit" bandwagon by any means but clearly Alberto is a far superior footballer. However within the system that Rafa deploys with his two central midfielders having considerable defensive responsibilities, you can see why he would think that Lucas is probably the better option.
Hopefully though the shackles will be off. I am more in favour in getting our best players on the pitch and allowing the formation and the tactics to be built around them, rather than the other way round. Clearly Alberto falls into that category.
Come on Rafa, get those shackles off (It is springtime after all.)
Good post.
The encouraging signs, however, are that he's more mobile than Alonso, who was your quarter-back style of CM - a player who sat back 'in the pocket' and dictated the tempo. In Xabi's second season, opposition managers asked their attacking players to hound him instead of our defence, and in some games it shut him down completely. Aquilani generally plays higher up, ghosting his way into more attacking areas, releasing the ball quickly and dangerously before a defensive player can get to him.
There are two things which could be a problem in that sense. Firstly: he's got his head up so quickly to look for a ball that his first touch sometimes can be pretty average and against better sides he'd lose it. And secondly: is the physical nature of playing in a more advanced position - does he have that complete confidence in his body to hack it against the Bolton's of this world? I'd suggest: not yet.
[/quote]
Your point about Alberto's greater mobility is I believe a very relevent one. He made some great runs last night and received the ball in some excellent positions with time and space to hurt the opposition. In doing that he should be that much harder to track and constantly close down.
Hopefully also, what you have said about his earlier distaste for the physical side of the game, may be more down to his return from a long term serious injury than his general on field demeanour.
I suspect that the amount of game time that he gets from now until the end of the season depends on whether Rafa is prepared to at least partially abandon his normal rigid system. I am not on the "Lucas is shit" bandwagon by any means but clearly Alberto is a far superior footballer. However within the system that Rafa deploys with his two central midfielders having considerable defensive responsibilities, you can see why he would think that Lucas is probably the better option.
Hopefully though the shackles will be off. I am more in favour in getting our best players on the pitch and allowing the formation and the tactics to be built around them, rather than the other way round. Clearly Alberto falls into that category.
Come on Rafa, get those shackles off (It is springtime after all.)
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