Fair point, although I don't think that's how Roy sees them.
This is the perfect storm for bringing Dalglish back.
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[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
If I were employing 4-3-3 with that roster of strikers I wouldn't play two full-time wide men. It'd be Torres and either N'Gog or Pacheco playing more centrally (though Torres does drift wide a fair bit) with either Babel or Ecclestone playing down either wing depending on how the game was going.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
If I were employing 4-3-3 with that roster of strikers I wouldn't play two full-time wide men. It'd be Torres and either N'Gog or Pacheco playing more centrally (though Torres does drift wide a fair bit) with either Babel or Ecclestone playing down either wing depending on how the game was going.
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42128.msg1188092#msg1188092 date=1286189499]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42128.msg1188083#msg1188083 date=1286189155]
I agree Richey.
Truth is we've been shafted from both sides. Managers who haven't quite been able to cut it and owners who couldn't care less about the club.
[/quote]I said the same yesterday. Moores, Parry, Benitez, Hodgson, Hicks, Gilette and every single player who has been on the books in the past 6 years with the possible exception of Stevie Gerrard share equal fucking blame for where we are now. None of them are guilt free.
[/quote]
I'd agree with all but 'players of the last 6 years'. Every player that's been here for the past two years: yes.
I can't blame the likes of Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso, Cisse etc for this.
Every single player bar Gerrard, Carra and Reina right now, yes. None of them are fit to wear the shirt of the club this once was, when we all started supporting them. We're rotten right the way through.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42128.msg1188083#msg1188083 date=1286189155]
I agree Richey.
Truth is we've been shafted from both sides. Managers who haven't quite been able to cut it and owners who couldn't care less about the club.
[/quote]I said the same yesterday. Moores, Parry, Benitez, Hodgson, Hicks, Gilette and every single player who has been on the books in the past 6 years with the possible exception of Stevie Gerrard share equal fucking blame for where we are now. None of them are guilt free.
[/quote]
I'd agree with all but 'players of the last 6 years'. Every player that's been here for the past two years: yes.
I can't blame the likes of Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso, Cisse etc for this.
Every single player bar Gerrard, Carra and Reina right now, yes. None of them are fit to wear the shirt of the club this once was, when we all started supporting them. We're rotten right the way through.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42128.msg1188209#msg1188209 date=1286194757]
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
Yes. There was lots of talk about Benitez losing the dressing room, but you have to wonder if Hodgson ever found it.
Quite literally perhaps, the bumbling old duffer.
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
Yes. There was lots of talk about Benitez losing the dressing room, but you have to wonder if Hodgson ever found it.
Quite literally perhaps, the bumbling old duffer.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42128.msg1188224#msg1188224 date=1286195730]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42128.msg1188209#msg1188209 date=1286194757]
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
Yes. There was lots of talk about Benitez losing the dressing room, but you have to wonder if Hodgson ever found it.
Quite literally perhaps, the bumbling old duffer.
[/quote]
ha ha
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42128.msg1188209#msg1188209 date=1286194757]
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
Yes. There was lots of talk about Benitez losing the dressing room, but you have to wonder if Hodgson ever found it.
Quite literally perhaps, the bumbling old duffer.
[/quote]
ha ha
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42128.msg1188244#msg1188244 date=1286196731]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]I struggle to understand what formation it is we are trying to play anymore. Its just random players running slowly after the opposition from a random starting point. Then on 80 minutes move the whole thing lock stock 6" further up the pitch.
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]I struggle to understand what formation it is we are trying to play anymore. Its just random players running slowly after the opposition from a random starting point. Then on 80 minutes move the whole thing lock stock 6" further up the pitch.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42128.msg1188244#msg1188244 date=1286196731]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]
Yes, I agree that is has to be Kuyt and Babel in a 433-formation....but would the service to Torres be any better with these two footballers? Their first touch is soo poor.
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]
Yes, I agree that is has to be Kuyt and Babel in a 433-formation....but would the service to Torres be any better with these two footballers? Their first touch is soo poor.
One of the obvious tactical differences I've seen is that he's telling the full backs to get up and down the line from the first minute - Rafa's didn't used to go past the halfway line until 60 mins had passed, now they're always belting up and down the thing. I thought he was trying to kill Carra yesterday.
The other is the centre halves, he's telling them to sort of watch what's going on, drop, and never commit. Total balls.
The other is the centre halves, he's telling them to sort of watch what's going on, drop, and never commit. Total balls.
It's the inability to manage a change process that's most surprising thing about a supposedly experienced and mature manager.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42128.msg1188257#msg1188257 date=1286197848]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42128.msg1188244#msg1188244 date=1286196731]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]I struggle to understand what formation it is we are trying to play anymore. Its just random players running slowly after the opposition from a random starting point. Then on 80 minutes move the whole thing lock stock 6" further up the pitch.
[/quote]
Pretty much. It might help if we actually played the same formation with the same set of players two matches on the trott.
The old man doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't even know what his favoured formation is.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42128.msg1188244#msg1188244 date=1286196731]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=42128.msg1188183#msg1188183 date=1286193736]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42128.msg1188177#msg1188177 date=1286193590]
Yes - Torres, Wash, Babel, Ecclestone, even Pacheco who's more of a second striker than a true midfielder.
[/quote]
But would we have a balaced and a good team with 2 of those flanking Torres and who would that be?
[/quote]
It'd be second nature to Kuyt and Babel who are very familiar with the formation, Jova looks to be more of a striker, Pacheco has generally played up front in his career and for Spain wide left as part of an attacking three... which just leaves Maxi and Joe Cole, both of whom are useless at defending anyways. It also suits our central midfield more than any other formation.
It is by some distance the best option for us.
[/quote]I struggle to understand what formation it is we are trying to play anymore. Its just random players running slowly after the opposition from a random starting point. Then on 80 minutes move the whole thing lock stock 6" further up the pitch.
[/quote]
Pretty much. It might help if we actually played the same formation with the same set of players two matches on the trott.
The old man doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't even know what his favoured formation is.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42128.msg1188209#msg1188209 date=1286194757]
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
THIS!
It's like one of the "experts" over here said today.
The squad Liverpool have, is one that most managers would love to work with. 10 out of 11 in yesterdays match was in the WC, average cap 55.
We're underperforming. Heavily. And when you throw in a manager clueless with tactics and team selection, 18th place is what you get.
We needed a change. But appointed the wrong manager. Now, 3 months later, we need a change again. No wonder Kenny threw his name in there. He knows Roy isn't the right man.
[/quote]
THIS!
Ah he is so naive. I'm starting to like him. Fuck it he's better than Poulsen. I never thought I'd say it, go get your kit on Lucas, we need you!
Hahahahahhaha Lucas to save the day!
I thought Maxi played by far his best game against Blackpool, and all he did was winning a couple of duells way back in our half, along the sidelines..... Much better than he has done all season so far!
S
Squiggles
Guest
He put in the cross for the Greek chance at the end.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42128.msg1188865#msg1188865 date=1286268491]
He put in the cross for the Greek chance at the end.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
[/quote]
His opportunities have been limited, in fairness. He was one of our best players at the back-end of last season. And he's one of our more intelligent footballers. His problem is that he's not one of those players who can affect a game on his own. And when the entire team seems lost at sea, I guess you want someone to come in who can turn a game on its head. Maxi isn't that player but that doesn't mean he can't be useful for us.
I think he's been a victim of many people's frustrations this season. I still think he's a decent player.
He put in the cross for the Greek chance at the end.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
[/quote]
His opportunities have been limited, in fairness. He was one of our best players at the back-end of last season. And he's one of our more intelligent footballers. His problem is that he's not one of those players who can affect a game on his own. And when the entire team seems lost at sea, I guess you want someone to come in who can turn a game on its head. Maxi isn't that player but that doesn't mean he can't be useful for us.
I think he's been a victim of many people's frustrations this season. I still think he's a decent player.
Say Everton stuff us next week, I think the clamour for Dalglish to replace Hodgson will be gaining momentum.
Near the foot of the table, if not bottom.
Hodgson is looking like a lost and tired old man after only a few weeks, the pressure of a derby defeat might cause him to quit.
Would be kind of fitting for Kenny to take back over after a derby, since he left after the 4-4 draw, 20-odd years ago.
Near the foot of the table, if not bottom.
Hodgson is looking like a lost and tired old man after only a few weeks, the pressure of a derby defeat might cause him to quit.
Would be kind of fitting for Kenny to take back over after a derby, since he left after the 4-4 draw, 20-odd years ago.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42128.msg1188868#msg1188868 date=1286269366]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42128.msg1188865#msg1188865 date=1286268491]
He put in the cross for the Greek chance at the end.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
[/quote]
His opportunities have been limited, in fairness. He was one of our best players at the back-end of last season. And he's one of our more intelligent footballers. His problem is that he's not one of those players who can affect a game on his own. And when the entire team seems lost at sea, I guess you want someone to come in who can turn a game on its head. Maxi isn't that player but that doesn't mean he can't be useful for us.
I think he's been a victim of many people's frustrations this season. I still think he's a decent player.
[/quote]
i agree. ironically some of the most attractive football we played under benitez came towards the end of last season, and maxi was right at the heart of it.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42128.msg1188865#msg1188865 date=1286268491]
He put in the cross for the Greek chance at the end.
It's the one thing he's done all season.
[/quote]
His opportunities have been limited, in fairness. He was one of our best players at the back-end of last season. And he's one of our more intelligent footballers. His problem is that he's not one of those players who can affect a game on his own. And when the entire team seems lost at sea, I guess you want someone to come in who can turn a game on its head. Maxi isn't that player but that doesn't mean he can't be useful for us.
I think he's been a victim of many people's frustrations this season. I still think he's a decent player.
[/quote]
i agree. ironically some of the most attractive football we played under benitez came towards the end of last season, and maxi was right at the heart of it.
Count me in too. IMO he still has a part to play.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I'm not writing him off. I just think he's been shit so far. He's another one of those Benitez signings in which he needs lots of factors in his favour to be able to play to a good enough ability for this club, and I'm kind of sick of them.
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