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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448850#msg1448850 date=1324470544]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1448834#msg1448834 date=1324470037]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1448817#msg1448817 date=1324469509]
In a country which was at the heart of the Slave trade it's understandable why such language is deemed different here to elsewhere.
[/quote]

You mean the country that was the first to abolish the slave trade and stamped it out wherever they found it round the world?
[/quote]

great point
[/quote]

Flipping heck.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1448861#msg1448861 date=1324471053]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1448846#msg1448846 date=1324470449]
The bullshit analogies being branded about are also a joke. The law/rules do not stipulate that "Saying negrito is an offense". They stipulate that racial slurs are an offense. Suarez did not use it as a racial slur, Evra misunderstood it as one. It is a MISUNDERSTANDING. No laws have been broken, no rules have been broken.

Say Anita gets fired from her job. And she "feels" it was sexual discrimination. Then the facts proved that it was not sexual discrimination on the part of her employer, but another harmless/acceptable reason. Some of you here are adopting the position that, well that's the employers fault. They should know better. They should learn a lesson. Anita felt she was discriminated against, so the employer is wrong and must suffer. Fuck off. That's utter bullshit.

This was a misunderstanding on the part of Evra/Anita. How in fucks name can that lead to an 8 game ban and a fine.
[/quote]

Excellent post, one of a number from you in this thread.
[/quote]

and the employer did say nice dress and admitted to saying nice dress in a newspaper interview...
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448865#msg1448865 date=1324471167]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1448857#msg1448857 date=1324470928]
I'm kind of middle of the road on this, I think. But I can't believe so many people are harping on about evidence. Suarez admitted what he said, they don't need more evidence.
[/quote]

I thought I was too ... but I'm not ...

What did he admit to saying exactly Gerry? Did he say 'negro' or 'negrito'?
[/quote]

To be honest, I'm not sure, we'll have to wait for the full report. But what ever he said, the FA have deemed it to be offensive. Rightly or wrongly.

So, evidence is not the issue.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1448857#msg1448857 date=1324470928]
I'm kind of middle of the road on this, I think. But I can't believe so many people are harping on about evidence. Suarez admitted what he said, they don't need more evidence.
[/quote]

I agree, but the focus is on whether what he said was offensive or not, based on the fact that it is not offensive to call someone that in other countries.

For me, the problem with that argument is simply that we are NOT in another country. I suspect if Suarez had spent the entire game calling Evra a black man the result would have been pretty much the same. I sit next to a black guy at work. I don't walk in every day and say 'good morning black man'. That would be unthinkable. And we're friends! Evra and Suarez clearly aren't friends, which is where the context needs to be considered too.

Suarez has admitted what he has been accused of saying I believe. The cultural differences/misunderstandings could have got him a lighter sentence, and might well do if he appeals
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1448863#msg1448863 date=1324471124]
The FA will only react to complaints made. I don't know what you point it about team-mates and the like, but it's never going to be an issue. Clubs will, for obvious reasons, keep that in in-house and away from the glare of the FA.

If Evra has said something unacceptable to the club should have launched an earlier complaint. Like it or not, stating proceedings now would have an air of sour grapes about it.
[/quote]

My point is that these terms are obviously used by Manc teams on Evra. So these terms are 'ok' with mates (or in foreign countries obviously) ... It sends a poor message in my opinion. But what do I know - I wonder if GlenJo has got a nickname from Lucas/Maxi/Suarez that we'd consider wrong?

It comes off sour grapes, but are we fighting 'racism' or not? It doesn't seem we are if we're willing to let this go.
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448870#msg1448870 date=1324471243]
Flipping heck.
[/quote]

But it's true.

By 1807, Britain had outlawed the slave trade with the Slave Trade Act, with penalties of £100 per slave levied on British captains found importing slaves (treaties signed with other nations expanded the scope of the trading ban). Small trading nations that did not have a great deal to give up, such as Sweden, quickly followed suit, as did the Netherlands, also by then a minor player; however, the British Empire on its own constituted a substantial fraction of the world's population. The Royal Navy established the West Africa Squadron (or Preventive Squadron) at substantial expense in 1808 after Parliament passed the Act. The squadron's task was to suppress the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coast of West Africa.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448841#msg1448841 date=1324470344]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1448827#msg1448827 date=1324469703]
I actual factual love this thread.
I really think some people are slightly mental.

Brilliant.
He said it. He admitted saying it. The end.

Theres some utter bollocks being spouted about everything else.

Each individual has to decide if they think he is a racist, or if they think the punishment is harsh or if they think *snigger* Fergie is behind it all and controls the FA etc etc
But he admitted using a word that caused offence and has been done for it.
The end.
[/quote]

... and you wonder why some people have exploded on this thread ...

Since you aren't one of the mental folk (thankfully as you are 6CM man of the year, and we don't want a mentalist winning that prestigious award):

1) if the term is used by Manure teammates on Evra too, should they be done for it?
2) why wasn't Evra done in for using an offensive term to Suarez?
[/quote]Aaah youre lovely.
Im not scm man of the year Wiz, Im barely registering a vote these days.
I cant really see the point in answering your questions, i think you already know the answers to be honest.

And no I dont see why people are exploding. Its retarded.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1448881#msg1448881 date=1324471580]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448870#msg1448870 date=1324471243]
Flipping heck.
[/quote]

But it's true.

By 1807, Britain had outlawed the slave trade with the Slave Trade Act, with penalties of £100 per slave levied on British captains found importing slaves (treaties signed with other nations expanded the scope of the trading ban). Small trading nations that did not have a great deal to give up, such as Sweden, quickly followed suit, as did the Netherlands, also by then a minor player; however, the British Empire on its own constituted a substantial fraction of the world's population. The Royal Navy established the West Africa Squadron (or Preventive Squadron) at substantial expense in 1808 after Parliament passed the Act. The squadron's task was to suppress the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coast of West Africa.
[/quote]

The young uns need proper history lessons to prevent all these extreme political correctness bullshit.
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448872#msg1448872 date=1324471299]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1448861#msg1448861 date=1324471053]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1448846#msg1448846 date=1324470449]
The bullshit analogies being branded about are also a joke. The law/rules do not stipulate that "Saying negrito is an offense". They stipulate that racial slurs are an offense. Suarez did not use it as a racial slur, Evra misunderstood it as one. It is a MISUNDERSTANDING. No laws have been broken, no rules have been broken.

Say Anita gets fired from her job. And she "feels" it was sexual discrimination. Then the facts proved that it was not sexual discrimination on the part of her employer, but another harmless/acceptable reason. Some of you here are adopting the position that, well that's the employers fault. They should know better. They should learn a lesson. Anita felt she was discriminated against, so the employer is wrong and must suffer. Fuck off. That's utter bullshit.

This was a misunderstanding on the part of Evra/Anita. How in fucks name can that lead to an 8 game ban and a fine.
[/quote]

Excellent post, one of a number from you in this thread.
[/quote]

and the employer did say nice dress and admitted to saying nice dress in a newspaper interview...
[/quote]

It's even worse. The employer said "Miss Anita, you're the poorest performing employee we've ever had, so you're fired".

The FA have then said
1. Did they insult her? Yep, poorest performing is insulting
2. Did they refer to her gender? Yep, Miss Anita is a reference to her gender

GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!!!!!!

PS, sorry Anita.
 
1807 signalled the abolition if the slave trade act, meaning people were not allowed to sell slaves etc. Slavery was still acceptable and carried on for years and years. 1837(something) signalled the abolition of slavery act, it most likely carried on for years after that also.

It's like you dismissed the hundreds of years before where britain was instrumental just to make the point, as mentioned pat on the back.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1448750#msg1448750 date=1324465162]
Ive noticed an age divide (with a few exceptions) in this thread.
[/quote]

There's also one between people who have never recovered from been hurt by our players, and people who have moved on.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1448886#msg1448886 date=1324471809]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448841#msg1448841 date=1324470344]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1448827#msg1448827 date=1324469703]
I actual factual love this thread.
I really think some people are slightly mental.

Brilliant.
He said it. He admitted saying it. The end.

Theres some utter bollocks being spouted about everything else.

Each individual has to decide if they think he is a racist, or if they think the punishment is harsh or if they think *snigger* Fergie is behind it all and controls the FA etc etc
But he admitted using a word that caused offence and has been done for it.
The end.
[/quote]

... and you wonder why some people have exploded on this thread ...

Since you aren't one of the mental folk (thankfully as you are 6CM man of the year, and we don't want a mentalist winning that prestigious award):

1) if the term is used by Manure teammates on Evra too, should they be done for it?
2) why wasn't Evra done in for using an offensive term to Suarez?
[/quote]Aaah youre lovely.
Im not scm man of the year Wiz, Im barely registering a vote these days.
I cant really see the point in answering your questions, i think you already know the answers to be honest.

And no I dont see why people are exploding. Its retarded.
[/quote]

You are in my eyes (though I think I voted for Mark just b/c he paid me).

People are just upset on many levels - our club has been stained by this, our best player has been stained by this (do you think he's a racist?) and i just am a bit shocked at how we're posting. I think a few posters have taken a 'middle line' but most of us are just getting pissed off b/c of how things are being worded, or jokes being made (sorry Pete).

I think it's time to quit footy and move on to ballet. At least everyone there is nice and gentle.
 
Level playing field...

"Following a February 1997 match against Arsenal, Schmeichel was accused of racism by Arsenal striker Ian Wright. During the game, Schmeichel and Wright had a number of controversies, and at the end of the game, the two players confronted each other on their way off the pitch. After the game, news emerged of a police inquiry into a November 1996 match between the two clubs, where it was alleged that Schmeichel had made a racist remark. After months of politicising by The FA and The PFA, who wanted a "converted" Schmeichel as their posterboy of the "Kick Racism out of Football" campaign, no evidence was found and the case was dropped."
 
Did Schmeichel admit to saying anything to Wright?

If Suarez had denied everything this case would also have been dropped
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448893#msg1448893 date=1324472061]
1807 signalled the abolition if the slave trade act, meaning people were not allowed to sell slaves etc. Slavery was still acceptable and carried on for years and years. 1837(something) signalled the abolition of slavery act, it most likely carried on for years after that also.

It's like you dismissed the hundreds of years before where britain was instrumental just to make the point, as mentioned pat on the back.
[/quote]

If I were Irish I'd object to that. 😉
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1448750#msg1448750 date=1324465162]
Ive noticed an age divide (with a few exceptions) in this thread.
[/quote]Ageist
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448889#msg1448889 date=1324471941]
The young uns need proper history lessons to prevent all these extreme political correctness bullshit.
[/quote]

Out of the hundreds of stupid ass, ill thought out posts on here this one takes the biscuit.

Young un's, do you even know what the fuck you are banging on about? What's political correctness got to do with this?

Pathetic really really sad and pathetic.
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448908#msg1448908 date=1324472537]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448889#msg1448889 date=1324471941]
The young uns need proper history lessons to prevent all these extreme political correctness bullshit.
[/quote]

Out of the hundreds of stupid ass, ill thought out posts on here this one takes the biscuit.

Young un's, do you even know what the fuck you are banging on about? What's political correctness got to do with this?

Pathetic really really sad and pathetic.
[/quote]

Calm down Atlas.
 
Re: Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1#msg1 date=1324472692]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448908#msg1448908 date=1324472537]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448889#msg1448889 date=1324471941]
The young uns need proper history lessons to prevent all these extreme political correctness bullshit.
[/quote]

Out of the hundreds of stupid ass, ill thought out posts on here this one takes the biscuit.

Young un's, do you even know what the fuck you are banging on about? What's political correctness got to do with this?

Pathetic really really sad and pathetic.
[/quote]

Calm down Atlas.
[/quote]
/thread
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1448912#msg1448912 date=1324472692]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448908#msg1448908 date=1324472537]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1448889#msg1448889 date=1324471941]
The young uns need proper history lessons to prevent all these extreme political correctness bullshit.
[/quote]

Out of the hundreds of stupid ass, ill thought out posts on here this one takes the biscuit.

Young un's, do you even know what the fuck you are banging on about? What's political correctness got to do with this?

Pathetic really really sad and pathetic.
[/quote]

Calm down Atlas.
[/quote]

You forgot the comma
 
I have plenty to say but I shall refrain from answering that so as not to inflame it further. Personal and directed abuse shows one can only shout when short of proper and right things to say.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1448919#msg1448919 date=1324473239]
Anyway it was the Arabs who started it! 😉
[/quote]

LOL, and there is no tiptoeing about words there.
 
Your post was pathetic y1, don't play the moral high ground. It may not have been directed but it's clear I would read it.
 
A Manc fan on Footy365.com:

Firstly, I'll just start off by saying I'm a mixed race Man United fan, so you'd think I'd be jumping for joy that Suarez has been found guilty and had the book thrown at him for racially abusing Evra; but I'm not. How has Suarez been found guilty just on Evra's word? Surely that's not grounds for a conviction in any case in the modern world?! My concern doesn't stem from some sympathy towards Suarez as he comes across as such a detestable character that I wouldn't be surprised if he called Evra every racist name under The Lying Rag, but surely this sets a dangerous precedent? One player claims another player called him this racist word - boom, 8 game ban and ¼ of a week's wages (poor soul).

There HAS to be more to it, the FA must have more evidence or this will be one of their single biggest F-ups in their history. And they have to reveal that they at least have additional evidence or statements from officials to back up Evra's claim (although there's no need to reveal the specifics to anyone but those concerned with the case) and they have to do it soon before the noise of thousands of Liverpool fans crying foul play against their great club and bias towards United reaches deafening levels! On that note, please people, keep a bit of perspective, none of us are in full possession of the facts, just a lot of stuff picked up off forums and the small bits from the papers around the case, let's not go crazy now!
Rob Haynes, MUFC
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1448930#msg1448930 date=1324473856]
Your post was pathetic y1, don't play the moral high ground. It may not have been directed but it's clear I would read it.
[/quote]

Why take it so personally? Oncey did mention this thread seems to be divided by age and Portly, JJ and myself are no spring chicken.
 
Re: Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47188.msg1#msg1 date=1324474309]
I still find that mirror headline incredible. Who wrote the article?
[/quote]

What is it? I'm not trawling through this shit storm
 
Re: Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1448938#msg1448938 date=1324474384]
What is it? I'm not trawling through this shit storm
[/quote]

RACIST

The FA statement was carefully worded to avoid spelling that out, although the severity of the punishment implied that's what they thought.
 
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