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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456013#msg1456013 date=1325682460]
What's a real shame is for when the next innocent person gets accused of racism. Because of liverpool football club and luis suarez backing down (due to fear of losing and fear of damaging their reputation) two things have happened.
1. The FA will handle their future cases much more intelligently, they'll be wiser to the mistakes they made today
2. Noone can now argue that E3 should not be strict liability, because the precedent has been set now

This was the time to put up a fight... but we got scared. The next guy might have courage, pride and a will to fight. But he will have no chance now will he
[/quote]

I agree. This was unjustified, and should have been challenged.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456013#msg1456013 date=1325682460]
What's a real shame is for when the next innocent person gets accused of racism. Because of liverpool football club and luis suarez backing down (due to fear of losing and fear of damaging their reputation) two things have happened.
1. The FA will handle their future cases much more intelligently, they'll be wiser to the mistakes they made today
2. Noone can now argue that E3 should not be strict liability, because the precedent has been set now

This was the time to put up a fight... but we got scared. The next guy might have courage, pride and a will to fight. But he will have no chance now will he
[/quote]

Here's hoping it's EBJT...
 
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456022#msg1456022 date=1325682813]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456013#msg1456013 date=1325682460]
What's a real shame is for when the next innocent person gets accused of racism. Because of liverpool football club and luis suarez backing down (due to fear of losing and fear of damaging their reputation) two things have happened.
1. The FA will handle their future cases much more intelligently, they'll be wiser to the mistakes they made today
2. Noone can now argue that E3 should not be strict liability, because the precedent has been set now

This was the time to put up a fight... but we got scared. The next guy might have courage, pride and a will to fight. But he will have no chance now will he
[/quote]

Here's hoping it's EBJT...
[/quote]

Oh fuck him. I meant "the guy after the next guy"
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
 
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456029#msg1456029 date=1325683774]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
[/quote]
I hope he doesn't of course. The FA have a habit of bending over backwards for certain players. Look what they've done for Rooney. Also what happened when Shearer rearranged Neil Lennon's face as well.
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456031#msg1456031 date=1325683989]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456029#msg1456029 date=1325683774]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
[/quote]
I hope he doesn't of course. The FA have a habit of bending over backwards for certain players. Look what they've done for Rooney. Also what happened when Shearer rearranged Neil Lennon's face as well.
[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that they'll let him go on the cheap. The way they handled Suarez is a precedent and it'll be extremely hard for them to treat EBJT differently.
 
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456041#msg1456041 date=1325684577]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456031#msg1456031 date=1325683989]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456029#msg1456029 date=1325683774]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
[/quote]
I hope he doesn't of course. The FA have a habit of bending over backwards for certain players. Look what they've done for Rooney. Also what happened when Shearer rearranged Neil Lennon's face as well.
[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that they'll let him go on the cheap. The way they handled Suarez is a precedent and it'll be extremely hard for them to treat EBJT differently.
[/quote]

The difference will be Terry only made one abusive remark, the FA found Suarez to have made seven and said if they had believed he had only said it once they would have given him a shorter ban.

That's your precedent right there. Terry's ban will be shorter.
 
The case against me boss was very similar, we had teh best evidence in the world (thanks to dantes and the cover of darkness), they'd fucked up so badly it beggared belief, I was at the height of my legal knowledge and mindset. Then she decided to move on with her life and back down.

The next girl got fired in the middle of maternity leave. I could do nothing to help her.
Then someone got fired and deported
Then who was next, yes a guy became alcoholic and homeless, never to be heard from again
Then the poor bastard who sits behind be got section twice under the mental health act
The apprentice was luck, he got fired before he suffered too much
The guy whose first marriage ended in divorce

I could see what happened to all of them, but couldn't prove it. Thats why my friend shouldn't have moved on, she should have let me finish the job. She had a 99% chance of winning. Dantes has been left with 1%. But that's all I need.

That's the thing. probability is very random and stochastic. So in a 100 coin tosses you'll get the sequence you need of HHHHHHH only once. But dantes isn't a statistician. There's also analytical equations. The equation which tells you the sequence itself. So even though the probability of HHHHHHH might be 1%. But dantes knows what's going to happen. it's going to go TTHTHHTHTHHTHHTHTHTHHHTHTTHTHHHHHHHTHTHTTTHTTHTHTH. That's what analytical equations predict. And why someone that lives by statistics need only bend over and prepare to get raped by the analyst. Oh that doesn't sound right at all. I mean when you know exactly when the 1% is going to happen, then it's not really 1% anymore. Its a fucking certainty. And you simply wait, wait and laugh sadistically at your genius.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1456043#msg1456043 date=1325684683]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456041#msg1456041 date=1325684577]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456031#msg1456031 date=1325683989]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456029#msg1456029 date=1325683774]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
[/quote]
I hope he doesn't of course. The FA have a habit of bending over backwards for certain players. Look what they've done for Rooney. Also what happened when Shearer rearranged Neil Lennon's face as well.
[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that they'll let him go on the cheap. The way they handled Suarez is a precedent and it'll be extremely hard for them to treat EBJT differently.
[/quote]

The difference will be Terry only made one abusive remark, the FA found Suarez to have made seven and said if they had believed he had only said it once they would have given him a shorter ban.

That's your precedent right there. Terry's ban will be shorter.
[/quote]

So although the TV cameras caught Terry explicitly racially abusing Ferdinand and there's no cultural differences issues, you believe they'll give him a shorter ban?
Will you find it to be just and fair if they do?

BTW, I think that if they indeed treat EBJT differently than they treated Suarez it will damage reputation of the English game and the English justice system in the eyes of the (non-English) world much more than the Suarez case did.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1456043#msg1456043 date=1325684683]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456041#msg1456041 date=1325684577]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456031#msg1456031 date=1325683989]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456029#msg1456029 date=1325683774]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1456023#msg1456023 date=1325682891]
I believe EBJT will get off pretty lightly.
[/quote]

That would be interesting.
[/quote]
I hope he doesn't of course. The FA have a habit of bending over backwards for certain players. Look what they've done for Rooney. Also what happened when Shearer rearranged Neil Lennon's face as well.
[/quote]

I find it hard to believe that they'll let him go on the cheap. The way they handled Suarez is a precedent and it'll be extremely hard for them to treat EBJT differently.
[/quote]

The difference will be Terry only made one abusive remark, the FA found Suarez to have made seven and said if they had believed he had only said it once they would have given him a shorter ban.

That's your precedent right there. Terry's ban will be shorter.
[/quote]

That's probably correct. I only flicked through their rules though but two things are clear.... for a misconduct charge it has to be filed against the accused withign 3 working days of the match. So for Terry, the FA are technically out of time to accuse him of breaching E3.

If Terry is found guilty, there are separate sets of rules that allow a player to be punished if he is convicted of a criminal charge, they can bring sanctions against him. But that won't be under E3 then, and they'll have to go by whatever the rules state there. I guess the sanctions depend upon whether the conviction was for murder/theft/drink driving or whatever. So there is no precedent right there in this case.

And if he is found innocent in the magistrates court which is quite possible given he'll have the best legal representation money can buy, then the FA are in trouble. They haven't charged Terry. So to charge him a full 6 months after the offense would be damn near impossible to justify. The rules don't allow for it.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1456047#msg1456047 date=1325685075]
Can they even charge Terry is he wins his court case?
[/quote]

I'm sure they hope not.
 
every time i read one of dantes post i imagine him leaning over his computer in a dark undergroung lair like the phantom of the opera, or as some kind of mad lovecraftian scientist

evil-scientist.png
 
Im glad this is over with.
I havnt enjoyed this thread. I havnt like disagreeing so much with people I like and people who i know to be good people.
I like most have had strong views on the matter, obviously they have been polar opposite to some peoples views. But i havnt at all times shown the respect that my fellow poster deserves. For that I am sorry.
I dont believe myself to be right in my opinion in the same way I am not 'right' that Negrette scored the greatest goal in a world cup ever. Its just my opinion.
I dont know the truth anymore than anyone else and as such I apologise for any point during this thread or any other threads where I have belittled or disrespected another posters opinion. If only I were as perfect as I always hoped id be.
I hope personally that no one will hold against me my opinions or my failings as i would never do that. Grudges are not something I wish to deal with.
Insignificance, JJ, LTW and others I apologise unreservedly and am sorry if I have at any point hurt anyone. Its not my intention to be an oaf. On occassion I cannot help myself.
x
 
Well this thread's given you a good insight into my madness. That girl I was helping, her boss was making her feel afraid, intimidated, emotionally exhausted, depressed, bullied, lonely and in despair. I kind of reached out my hand to help her out of that place. That was the happiest I'd known her in that short moment. But then when she turned around expecting her hero dantes or some other romantic nonsense fairytale....whatever she did see she ran.

And then I fell into that place I helped her out from and could of used someones help. But good people quit, and get scared, and run away. That's another thing I don't know which I ought to. What made her run away. And my boss doesn't bully me, or intimidate me. Like her, he runs as far as possible to the other side of the room in fear. Always keeping his distance from dantes.
 
The following is a transcript from the Liverpool press conference after the Anfield club's 3-0 defeat at Manchester City on Tuesday night:


Reporter: "Kenny, the wider world is pretty shocked that, if a player can call someone 'negro' and the player who is the victim in this takes offence, that there is no apology or contrition offered from your club."

Dalglish: "I would have thought that, if you pronounced the word properly, you maybe understand it better. I think it was Spanish he was speaking and I don't think you were speaking Spanish there."

Reporter: "OK, if a player calls someone 'negro' [Spanish pronunciation], surely the player who takes offence deserves an apology?"

Dalglish: "Ask a linguistic expert, which certainly I am not. They will tell you that the part of the country in Uruguay where he [Luis Suárez] comes from, it is perfectly acceptable. His wife calls him that and I don't think he is offended by her. We have made a statement and I think it is there for everybody to read. Luis has made a brilliant statement and we will stand by him."

Reporter: "But the FA verdict said it was 'simply incredible' to suggest it wasn't used in an offensive way when they were clearly arguing and it wasn't friendly."

Dalglish: "There's a lot of things we'd like to say and a lot we could say but we would only get ourselves in trouble. We are not trying to be evasive … well, we are being evasive because we don't like getting ourselves in trouble. But we know what has gone on. We know what is not in the report and that's important for us. So without me getting ourselves in trouble, I think that's it finished."

Reporter: "Why take the ban now and not play the next three games, including the Carling Cup semi-final against Manchester City?"

Dalglish: "He could have played for a fortnight but he has to serve eight games at some stage and this time is as good as any, isn't it? It was better to get the situation over and done with."

Reporter: "Mark Lawrenson was saying on the radio that you've got to fear now whether Suárez may feel unsettled playing in England. Is that a concern?"

Dalglish: "Because Mark Lawrenson said it? No. I don't see why we have to reply to anybody. If you're asking if I have any concern about Luis playing in England, then no."

Reporter: "Is he strong enough?"

Dalglish: "I don't have a problem with Luis playing in England."

Reporter: "Do you regret wearing the T-shirts?"

Dalglish: "You see, if one of you guys were in trouble, would you help him? Would you support him if you knew the truth and you knew it was right? Would you support him?"

Reporter: "But not with T-shirts when he has been found guilty …"

Dalglish: "Why not? If they want to show their support for their team-mate, what's wrong with that? It was a fabulous statement to make visually of their support for a guy who is endeared in the dressing room, one of their closest friends in the dressing room, and all of his friends in the dressing room can speak up adequately and perfectly well for him. [size=12pt]And I think it is very dangerous and unfortunate that you don't actually know the whole content of what went on at the hearing[/size]. I'm not prepared, and I can't say it, but I am just saying it is really unfortunate you never got to hear it. That's all I'm saying."
Reporter: "Kenny, given how the wider public are so opposed to your view, what do you have to lose by telling us and revealing what you're saying was not included in the FA statement?"

Dalglish: "It's up to the club to decide what they want to do."

Reporter: "But if you have something to say, surely say it – because the alternative is you are digging a bigger hole for yourself?"

Dalglish: "I don't think we are digging a bigger hole but I just think it's unfortunate we can't be more forthcoming. That's the unfortunate thing."

Reporter: "In your two statements you basically accused the FA of a conspiracy against your club."

Dalglish: "So they have made a statement then …"

Liverpool press officer intervenes and asks for no more questions on Suárez.

Reporter: "The hearing was to lay out all the evidence, 115 pages of evidence, and you have said they [the FA] have done it subjectively. So why do you think the FA are targeting Liverpool and Suárez?"

Dalglish: "Maybe wrong place, wrong time. It could have been anybody. I can't answer for the FA, you ask them."

Reporter: "You think there is an agenda against Liverpool?"

Dalglish: "No. You said that. I never. You get yourself in trouble, I'm all right."

Reporter: "Are you concerned Suárez's first game back could be at Old Trafford?"

Dalglish: "I'll just be delighted to get him back."
 
There is an old adage “Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?”

It seems certain sections of the British press have adopted this phrase as their corporate motto, with no greater example than the Daily Mirror.

On Tuesday 20th December, the Football Association announced via their website that Luis Suarez had been found guilty of misconduct contrary to FA rule E3, coincidentally the same charge (against the same rule) that Sir Alex Ferguson had been charged with for his comments in relation to Howard Webb.

The FA statement added that ‘the insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2)’.

Basically Mr Suarez had been found guilty of misconduct for using insulting words, which included a reference to Mr Evra’s colour. Liverpool FC quickly issued a strongly worded statement, which included the following phrase

“It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said 'I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist'. The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.”

Despite this the Daily Mirror rushed to press and barely four hours later their Wednesday morning back page was available to view online. (see left)

“RACIST” screamed the banner headline. Racist? Suarez had been found guilty of using insulting behaviour including a reference to Evra’s colour (in Spanish). Does that constitute him being labelled racist? Questionable in the least.

The well-documented saga has played out over the Christmas and New Year period and many including myself have aired their views on the business. By last evening, as the reds prepared for an important clash at Manchester City, Liverpool FC and Luis Suarez had decided (with obvious reluctance) to accept the punishment, although they made their feelings very clear by releasing passionate statements supporting Luis’ character and good name.

So what would be the Daily Mirror’s response this time?

This time the editorial staff at the Mirror surpassed themselves with their mischief making.

The back page headline this morning reads. ‘I called him a negro but I am innocent’

Read it again. It strongly implies that it is a direct quotation (by the use of inverted commas) attributed to Luis Suarez. The falsifying of Luis’ words is bad enough, but even worse it that in a simple headline the whole essence of the FA’s findings has been misrepresented.

It should be noted that the Mirror’s fictional quote refers to ‘a negro’. What Suarez admitted to saying during the infamous confrontation was ‘negro’. What’s the difference you may ask?

Well, there is a big difference. Suarez used the word in a conversation held in his native Spanish language, using the Spanish pronunciation. ( Negro with a soft ‘e’, in contrast to the English ‘Nee-gro’ pronunciation)

So, however the Mirror would like to portray things, there is absolutely no way on this earth that their “I called him a negro” could be considered representative of the facts or the truth.

Luis Suarez and Liverpool FC are clearly very unhappy with the outcome of the FA tribunal hearing and of the whole process. They have been backed into a corner, to an extent that they have accepted their medicine. It appears that they consider that the FA have stitched them up, so that beyond making their displeasure known, they have no recourse.

The Daily Mirror’s clear and deliberate libel may just have given Luis and LFC their opportunity to obtain some justice in this matter. I trust their legal teams have been fully briefed
 
If you tell someone you don't speak to blacks, you fouled them because they were black, then goad them by saying come on then blackie blackie blackie...... the FA and Patrice Evra believe that the person saying those words is not a racist. That tells you everything you need to know about them.

Of course, those words were never spoken by Suarez. But cos they are the probable version of events the Mirror have no case to answer. Liverpool have no argument. They backed down. All they need do is shut their fucking mouths, including Dalglish.
 
As stupid as it sounds, Evra has a right not to be called a liar too. By chatting the shit we are now, we are infringing upon that right of Evra. It's beyond pathetic. We decided not to challenge Evra by legitimate means, and are now making snide cryptic remarks about it in a press conference. Fucking pathetic in my eyes. The club can do no right from this point, so it's best they just shut the fuck up.
 
"And I think it is very dangerous and unfortunate that you don't actually know the whole content of what went on at the hearing."

What the fuck can it be?
 
Racist 'joke' email chief still working for the FA

The FA boss who sent a racist email to his friends is still working for English football's governing body.

Peter Brown forwarded the offensive gag from his business account in September, just hours before Bulgarian fans hurled racist abuse at black England players.

He was due to retire at the end of last month, but he is still at the Bedfordshire FA to ensure a “smooth handover” to his successor, Keith Stroud.

Mr Brown, 65, had made a public apology and offered to quit during an investigation.


But FA bosses, who recently banned Liverpool’s Luis Suarez for eight games following racist comments, took no action against the chief executive.

A source said: “It’s as though grassroots football has little appetite to confront racism, which is shameful.”

Bedfordshire FA chairman Richard Robinson said: “Peter will commence his delayed retirement later in 2012.”
 
I think either Kenny is absolutely mad or there must be something major being left out. He has to realize coming out and saying what he has said in the case will make him look a nutter in the face of a 115 page report, so he must be utterly convince we were wronged.
 
[quote author=bkwitche link=topic=47188.msg1456121#msg1456121 date=1325691585]
I think either Kenny is absolutely mad or there must be something major being left out. He has to realize coming out and saying what he has said in the case will make him look a nutter in the face of a 115 page report, so he must be utterly convince we were wronged.
[/quote]

The club will have a transcript of the hearing, so a blow-by-blow account of it. So I promise you there is going to be more than one major thing left out. That's probably also what he meant by it being unfortunate we don't know what went on in the hearing. Well fuck off. Why is he telling the press, and not putting it to the FA and Evra in a fair hearing. We sound like a pathetic boxer who's ducked a fight. Then turn up the next day claiming we have this great left hook, and we would have knocked him out, and blah blah blah. That's really nice you try to protect your public image and brandname. But don't expect any boxer in the land to have an ounce of respect left for anything you say afterwards.
 
[quote author=Lewy link=topic=47188.msg1456054#msg1456054 date=1325686063]
every time i read one of dantes post i imagine him leaning over his computer in a dark undergroung lair like the phantom of the opera, or as some kind of mad lovecraftian scientist

evil-scientist.png


[/quote]

I always read Dantes' posts in the voice of the Brain from Pinky and the Brain in my head.
 
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