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The real GOAT

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George Best.

Maybe it's the amount of TV coverage now, but I've seen Messi look pretty ordinary way too many times. I've seen him marked out of a game by Arbeloa for fucks sake. So I could never say he's the greatest after some of the shit he served up especially in several world cups. If he's the greatest, then fuck me. But Best and shit don't go together. Nor does Zidane and shit.
 
athensruairi said:
I just googled it and it was Cookstown sausages he advertised.

I don't like them Portuguese sausages either.
Click to expand...

So you're saying Cookstown sausages are better than Denny's?

Or George Best is better than gay Ronaldo?

Or both.
 
dantes said:
George Best.

Maybe it's the amount of TV coverage now, but I've seen Messi look pretty ordinary way too many times. I've seen him marked out of a game by Arbeloa for fucks sake. So I could never say he's the greatest after some of the shit he served up especially in several world cups. If he's the greatest, then fuck me. But Best and shit don't go together. Nor does Zidane and shit.
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Well of the rare footage of him that there is, they're not going to have kept whatever turgid performances he did put in and replay them too often, are they?

Zidane is probably my favourite non-LFC player ever, but Messi is better. Zidane had bad games too. I've seen him miss an open goal.
 
StevieM said:
So you're saying Cookstown sausages are better than Denny's?

Or George Best is better than gay Ronaldo?

Or both.
Click to expand...
It's been ages since I had either Cookstown or Denny's sausages. I would have to do a blind taste test.

I would also have to do the same with Ronald and George. A blind taste test. Do you think Ronald tastes better than a 10 year dead body?
 
Maradona.

Simply because there are great players in great teams (Messi, Figo, Zidane etc) but he is the only great player I've seen that made very ordinary teams champions.

Just think of the Argentine team in 1986 or the Napoli team in the mid 80's and their achievements.

If ever one man could be a team it was him.
 
Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo and is at the very least in the top 2 of all time.
 
I always banter my dad on the greatest of all time, he defaults to Matthews or best but all I can say is the fitness levels of players today is far superior to those of 30 years ago, they run further, faster and more frequently so whilst you can't truly compare Messi to Maradona o technical ability you can pretty much guarantee that Messi is a better athlete which forms pretty good foundations for the argument on a current generation player being the greatest ever.

Messi will retire as the greatest ever and understandably so In my opinion.
 
athensruairi said:
It's been ages since I had either Cookstown or Denny's sausages. I would have to do a blind taste test.

I would also have to do the same with Ronald and George. A blind taste test. Do you think Ronald tastes better than a 10 year dead body?
Click to expand...

I dunno - George might be quite like beer marinated dry aged jerky... while Ronnie would be very lean, not much fat - so probably like kangaroo. - which I'm not particularly in to.
 
Judge Jules said:
I'll see your Ronaldo or Messi and raise you George Best. Best could do anything and everything these guys do AND tackle like a pitbull to get the ball when it wasn't coming to him. No footballer since has had the same range of skills at the highest level.
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Put Best in the Napoli team of the 80's up against the best players in the world and the meanest defence orientated league and Napoli would probably finish top 4. That says it all really. Diego had the ability to grab a game, a season, a team by the horns and transcend mediocrity and reach levels never seen before. Messi not doing it at a World Cup with a squad of incredible talent is s big blemish on an incredible record.
 
HC said:
I always banter my dad on the greatest of all time, he defaults to Matthews or best but all I can say is the fitness levels of players today is far superior to those of 30 years ago, they run further, faster and more frequently so whilst you can't truly compare Messi to Maradona o technical ability you can pretty much guarantee that Messi is a better athlete which forms pretty good foundations for the argument on a current generation player being the greatest ever.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. What it shows is that training methods, diet, medical care and all the other off-the-field stuff are better than ever. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the players themselves.
 
red_maradona said:
Put Best in the Napoli team of the 80's up against the best players in the world and the meanest defence orientated league and Napoli would probably finish top 4. That says it all really. Diego had the ability to grab a game, a season, a team by the horns and transcend mediocrity and reach levels never seen before. Messi not doing it at a World Cup with a squad of incredible talent is s big blemish on an incredible record.
Click to expand...

It would if I agreed with it, but I don't. 😛
 
Judge Jules said:
I respectfully disagree. What it shows is that training methods, diet, medical care and all the other off-the-field stuff are better than ever. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the players themselves.
Click to expand...
I never said it did. I said technically you can't really compare them but in terms of being an athlete (diet, fitness etc) the top 10% are now leaps and bounds ahead of where we were 20/30 years ago plus.
 
But my point is that those things in brackets don't constitute "being an athlete". They're external factors applied to the players to improve them. What those players are in themselves - which includes their athletic ability - is a different question. IMO the only way of making this kind of comparison meaningful is to assume the same diet, fitness regime etc.applied to all the players one's considering.
 
But you agree that those variables are better than they have ever been, right?

So we can now that Messi is at the pinnacle of this current generation (better nutrition, conditioning etc) we can certainly then begin to question about whether Best would either meet the pre requisites of a top athlete in 2015 or even have the physical ability to?
 
In answer to your initial question: yes, of course, but as I've explained above I don't think that's relevant in comparisons like this, not if you want to make them mean something. Besides, what ultimately scuppered Best was what he did and what happened to him off the field. Nowadays clubs in particular take far better care of their players in that respect, as well as in respect of in-game factors, than they used to back in the day.
 
When you say Best could tackle as well, what do you mean?

That he could play as a defensive minded midfielder like Maschareno?
 
keniget said:
When you say Best could tackle as well, what do you mean?

That he could play as a defensive minded midfielder like Maschareno?
Click to expand...
He was not shy in tackling back and winning the ball.

That's from what I have heard, my only experience of seeing Best live is when he told Terry Wogan that he liked to fuck.
 
athensruairi said:
He was not shy in tackling back and winning the ball.
Click to expand...


That's why I was asking... if it's just a case of tracking back and winning the ball effectively, I'd say the same about Messi. Less so in the last couple of years but he has shown the ability to work very hard defensively and be effective in doing so.
 
keniget said:
That's why I was asking... if it's just a case of tracking back and winning the ball effectively, I'd say the same about Messi. Less so in the last couple of years but he has shown the ability to work very hard defensively and be effective in doing so.
Click to expand...
But has Messi appeared drunk on national television?

Best 1 - Messi 0
 
Haha. "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest, I wasted." [George Best]

As for Best/Messi: granted Messi's stats are so staggering that he may yet take Best's crown in the minds of those who, like me, have always voted for Best in this discussion. At the moment I'm still in the Best camp though, because he covered the hard yards in addition to his more spectacular contributions all through his top-flight career and didn't have to grow into it as Messi may now be doing. Perhaps partly for that reason, I suspect Best was more effective at it too - while he was still at his peak, pundits would occasionally speculate whether he might prolong the latter stages of his career by moving back into midfield and even defence ultimately, because his "grunt" work (including his heading - Messi's is decent but Best's was better) was good enough to suggest that he could. I'll be surprised if I see Messi prompting similar speculations, though you never know.
 
So, instead of asking could Best have made it as a great player these days, why don't we ask ourselves; would Messi have made it as a great player during the days of Best?

In a word, no. Messi relied on Barcelona to pay for his growth hormone treatment, a treatment that didn't exist when Best was growing up. Harsh? Perhaps. But it's a valid point in my opinion. You can't say that Best wouldn't have the speed that Messi had without thinking about this.

I've probably mentioned this before, I too was a short arse, growth hormone midget like Messi. Obviously the stuff he was given was better than the stuff I received. I don't have super powers.
 
A player that basically retired at 27 shouldn't be even in the discussion.
Best was an excellent dribbler and a supremely gifted player but he was dribbling at players who weren't as physically or tactically drilled as the defenders playing today.
It will be scary the day that Messi retires and his final stats will be revealed.
He'll become the greatest player of all time when he retires.
Absolutely no doubt about it.
 
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