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The PL is dead

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Arn

Lucas the best player in the world
Banned
It is all about money now. Almost no heart left. Astronomical ticket prices. Well, the tourists will be happy because it means a lot more tickets for them. Who really cares about the fans?

The players and agents of course play their part because of the astronomical wages. Almost every player in the PL could retire after a few years because even the lowest paid players get paid high wages and even average players get paid £40k+ a week.

Klopp have already found this out. He blames the crowd for leaving early but also the players that must show that it is worth buying a ticket in the first place.

The PL is dead.
 
Perhaps overly dramatic but I do agree in principle.
Lately, I've been enjoying the Bundesliga much more. Granted, Bayern win the league at a canter but I prefer watching it.
 
The PL is dead. Long live the PL! I agree in principle. Its not like it was when I were a lad. The quality is probably better than ever, but with so much money a lot of unsavoury stuff comes too - much of which leaves me cold.
Football is no longer the "working-man's game", and has not been for some time.
 
We could do something really special with the extra capacity we will have in terms of pricing and still make a shit ton off the corporate hospitality.

Even from a cynical perspective, I think the value and fantastic PR it would bring to our brand would make up for some of the lost revenue.

Instead we'll go with the ticketmaster business strategy.
 
The only chance that tickets will be much cheaper is that the FA force every team to do it, simply won't happen or that all the real fans would boycott every game in the PL and the tickets won't be sold to tourists, not realistic.

The players and owners must start to talk about the massive problem. The players must agree to take a big pay cut and the owners at the same time agree to half the ticket prices. It isn't realistic either. The players would move other leagues and the English clubs would not have a chance in the CL.

You also need to have safe standing sections. Bundesliga have showed that that isn't a problem but that isn't realistic either.

The only solution as I see it is a new European super league with cheaper tickets and that allow standing sections.
 
Liverpool turned over 200m in their last accounts. Only 45m was from match day revenue... less than a quarter. In the scheme of things the seat prices aren't that big of a deal.

Mind you. Ayre said that the 8000 new seats will sell for £20m per season. That's an average 2500 per seat. I guess that's dragged upwards by the corporate, but there's no fucking way on earth that it's gonna get more affordable.
 
We aren't a club that make people happy anymore. We the fans are now customers. Only a boycott would work, a total boycott. Stop buying tickets, merchandise etc and demand 50% cheaper tickets. As a Liverpool fan it is almost impossible to say that standing sections must be allowed but standing sections is a must. I have donated much money to the HJC but I also understand that safe standing exists. It didn't 20 years ago but it exists now. You can't live in the past and feel sorry for yourself forever. You will have to look at what options is available now. What the fans want. I will support HJC forever but I don't agree with everything they say.

I'm very sure that more than 90% would say yes to standing sections. We the fans must get the power pack. The power to demand things.
 
Boycott the club, see revenues fall, the is forced to sell players, which then leads to dramatic fall in the league which in turn could mean relegation. Do you really want that? If fans want success, it comes at a price. If you buy a player for £15m plus you'll pay wages around £3m a year plus other fee's, like insurance and taxes. The player might also have other expenses the club might need to bear. I think if prices are to come down then they need to reintroduce all standing terraces.
 
Boycott the club, see revenues fall, the is forced to sell players, which then leads to dramatic fall in the league which in turn could mean relegation. Do you really want that? If fans want success, it comes at a price. If you buy a player for £15m plus you'll pay wages around £3m a year plus other fee's, like insurance and taxes. The player might also have other expenses the club might need to bear. I think if prices are to come down then they need to reintroduce all standing terraces.

Not only us Liverpool fans should boycott the club we support until the tickets get much cheaper. Every fan in the PL must agree to the boycott. That is why it isn't realistic.
 
The club would love the locals to give their tickets up. More tickets for tourists who get there early, spend 100 quid in the club shop and buy three beers and a hotdog for 20 quid.

The horse has bolted.

This is a great read, but it's not out for a few months:
 
The club aren't doing much to grow their future match attending fan base. The average age of your match goer is increasing year on year. I know a number of fan groups have met the club to try and remedy the situation but if things change is yet to be seen.
 
Average age of PL season ticket holder is 41. In Germany it's 21. Safe standing is one of the reasons - and loads of clubs force people away their kop end when they get to 30 and move them into the side stands. Here all we've got is old moaning farts like me, people who've had tickets for ages... and if I ever do splash out and take my kids they're in single seats away from me or their mates. Hardly good for atmos.
 
All standing sections would reduce costs and improve atmosphere. I think the clubs do want to bring this back in but HSE probably will not allow it. Maybe allow a shirt sponsor on the reverse in return for reduced ticket prices. I think what ever idea that is proposed has to be in the vain of reduced ticket prices but not at the cost of revenue.
 
The game at the top level has gone. I'm finding myself watching football in general and getting as much enjoyment from it as I do watching us.

If I get my way my kid isn't gonna support us, or any other premier league side.

I'd rather him support tranmere and have a foreign side so I can take him to their games too.
 
It is all about money now. Almost no heart left. Astronomical ticket prices. Well, the tourists will be happy because it means a lot more tickets for them. Who really cares about the fans?

The players and agents of course play their part because of the astronomical wages. Almost every player in the PL could retire after a few years because even the lowest paid players get paid high wages and even average players get paid £40k+ a week.

Klopp have already found this out. He blames the crowd for leaving early but also the players that must show that it is worth buying a ticket in the first place.

The PL is dead.

Not to shoot down your post, I agree with a lot of it, but I bet you weren't saying similar in the 2013-2014 season when we were smashing teams left, right, and centre.

Literally everything seems a lot more shit when we're struggling.
 
You can spend half the cost of a match ticket to go and see a decent band. You're pretty much guaranteed to see a good show unlike the footy.
 
Not to shoot down your post, I agree with a lot of it, but I bet you weren't saying similar in the 2013-2014 season when we were smashing teams left, right, and centre.

Literally everything seems a lot more shit when we're struggling.

I have moaned about it for years, not on this site of course. What is best for the fans will always be much more important than winning games. Suarez was like a mega big superstar. He delivered magical moments in every game. Probably the best player ever that played in the highest league but not even he is worth £250k a week in wages.

Murdock is probably loving it. Greed is killing the game. Corruption is killing the game. Fixed games is killing the game. Murdock style. Every club in the PL probably pay millions in bribes every year to agents, it is called agent fees. but no one cares as long as the player is signed.
 
The killer thing is the eagerness with which the authorities have embraced the worst aspects of the new culture. There's been not the slightest resistance. As with FIFA, the innate pomposity of the bosses has blossomed, right down to such toe-curling pretentiousness as the ball on the plinth that the players have to pass at the start of the 'event'. It ought to be a wad of notes. The new money made many things inevitable, but there are plenty of elements that never had to happen, but popped up like puss from the personalities of the grandees.
 
Tony Barrett
Last updated at 12:01AM, November 10 2015

German’s criticism of supporters was valid and Liverpool are in danger of losing their identity.

Shortly after taking over at Liverpool, Jürgen Klopp was asked by a foreign journalist if he had come to English football to right its wrongs, prompting images of a Germanic messiah handing out cheap tickets and serving up free beer after momentous victories.

On Sunday, Klopp lost a football match, but afterwards he held up a mirror to an element of fan culture that was totally alien to him. No sooner had Scott Dann’s header hit the back of the net to put Crystal Palace 2-1 up at Anfield than numerous Liverpool supporters began streaming away from the ground.

Aghast at what was happening around him, the Liverpool manager momentarily turned his back to the pitch while the game was going on and watched the exodus as it took place, his demeanour betraying his bewilderment.

Afterwards, Klopp explained his feelings, admitting that those who had left had made him feel “pretty alone”, particularly as there were still 12 minutes remaining, including stoppage time. If it was a criticism of the Liverpool fans, then Klopp’s subsequent backtracking ensured that it did not become a confrontational one. “I don’t want to argue,” he said. “We [the team] are responsible for ensuring that nobody can leave the stadium a minute before the last whistle because everything can happen.”

By shifting the issue on to his players, Klopp neatly defused a situation when perhaps he should not have done. At some point, someone in a position of power at Liverpool has to ask the question that is posed in song by opposition fans on a regular basis: “Where’s your famous atmosphere?”

European football folklore might decree that Anfield is a cauldron of passion, the home of the 12th man where fans support their team even when a cause has already been lost, but the matchday experience continues to fly in the face of that reputation.

In fairness, the early exodus is as much a part of Anfield’s fabric as You’ll Never Walk Alone. It has been going on for decades, with supporters leaving early for a variety of reasons including getting to local pubs before they become crowded, escaping packed car parks before they become too busy and getting to the Mersey Tunnel or the M62 before the roads that lead to them become gridlocked.

Some leave before the final whistle simply out of habit. It has been happening at Anfield — and stadiums around the country — for as long as anyone can remember, but it is anathema to Klopp, who arrives from a culture at Borussia Dortmund where supporter and team are as one.

It is here that the idea that he is the perfect fit for Liverpool falls down. Liverpool are not the English Dortmund. They could be, if the will existed in the corridors of power at Anfield and in Boston, but it does not and that means Klopp is playing the role of conductor without an orchestra. It may not have been in keeping with the Remembrance Day spirit, but the Palace fans had a point yesterday when they chanted that the commemorative silence was only supposed to last for a minute.

Liverpool, a club with the second-most expensive “cheap” tickets in the country, are losing sight of the identity that made them what they are. As yet, the best suggestion that the club’s principal owner, John W Henry, has come up with to solve the problem is to host screenings of away games for local schoolchildren. At the same time as work on a new stand featuring more than 4,000 new corporate seats is being completed, it would be easy to argue that Henry doesn’t quite understand the issue at hand, even if his idea was sparked by good intentions.

The opposite could be said of Fenway Sports Group’s choice of Klopp as Brendan Rodgers’s successor, an inspired decision that brought one of world football’s most revered coaches to Anfield. As Sir Alex Ferguson pointed out through teeth so gritted he probably needed fillings afterwards, Klopp has the potential to revitalise Liverpool and the ability to make them a force to be reckoned with once more. But he can’t do it alone.

It is unlikely that they will be able to stop the traditional walkout, but they might come up with ways of ensuring that fans are supportive for as long as they are in the ground. Klopp might have been too polite and too respectful of his new employers to point it out but many of the solutions to Liverpool’s identity crisis are to be found in Germany, a place where fan culture remains a priority for clubs who recognise its importance in what they are trying to achieve.
 
I startred attending matches regularly in the mid-late 80s.

People have always left early. The noise levels have always been dependent on who we're playing and what's happening on the pitch. So what's he talking about with this:

"It is here that the idea that he is the perfect fit for Liverpool falls down. Liverpool are not the English Dortmund. They could be, if the will existed in the corridors of power at Anfield and in Boston, but it does not and that means Klopp is playing the role of conductor without an orchestra. It may not have been in keeping with the Remembrance Day spirit, but the Palace fans had a point yesterday when they chanted that the commemorative silence was only supposed to last for a minute."

Don't build corporate boxes? Just drop prices and the noise will increase?


Can someone sum this up for me? I'm totally lost.
 
Average age of PL season ticket holder is 41. In Germany it's 21. Safe standing is one of the reasons - and loads of clubs force people away their kop end when they get to 30 and move them into the side stands. Here all we've got is old moaning farts like me, people who've had tickets for ages... and if I ever do splash out and take my kids they're in single seats away from me or their mates. Hardly good for atmos.
The singles in seats is massive I Reckon. There's rarely a chance for 5 wasted mates to be wasted and loudly singing together
 
I startred attending matches regularly in the mid-late 80s.

People have always left early. The noise levels have always been dependent on who we're playing and what's happening on the pitch. So what's he talking about with this:

"It is here that the idea that he is the perfect fit for Liverpool falls down. Liverpool are not the English Dortmund. They could be, if the will existed in the corridors of power at Anfield and in Boston, but it does not and that means Klopp is playing the role of conductor without an orchestra. It may not have been in keeping with the Remembrance Day spirit, but the Palace fans had a point yesterday when they chanted that the commemorative silence was only supposed to last for a minute."

Don't build corporate boxes? Just drop prices and the noise will increase?


Can someone sum this up for me? I'm totally lost.


Of course they have to have a corporate element, but they also have to embrace the community as well. It's no good waffling on about 'the Liverpool Family' when they behave like it's just a business. They have a right to treat it just as a business, but they need to be clear about what they really want. If they want something more, they need to be more imaginative and active, that's all. Ticket prices at Dortmund range from about £8 to £39. It's not entirely accidental that the local representation is greater, the class mix is richer, and the atmosphere is vastly better, but there's also a genuine desire at the club to foster a sense of solidarity there.
 
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