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The midfield

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I am not concerned about the result of the Fulham game. You'll get bad results, it happens.
I could blame both Fulham goals on bad refereeing that cost us, but I am sure we will have games where bad refereeing decisions that will go in our favour, and we win games as a result.
I think we need a CM this season , the Liverpool recruitment has a list of targets other than Jude. I think we stand a better chance of winning the league with an extra CM or we might go into October struggling to cobble together 3 players for the MF roles.
I'd generally agree with most of this. What pissed me off so much wasn't the result but the actual level of preformance. The only player who started who doesn't deserve any criticism is Diaz. Think even alisson could have done more for the first goal. Obviously the subs all did OK when coming on. Nunez should probably have scored 2 more. Elliott was a livewire when he came on but he's not going to win the game by himself anf milner was his usual dependable self.
Midfield is a problem though, was a problem last year as well. They don't weigh in with enough goals or assists
 
Our players aren’t stupid, they’ve experienced enough to know you can’t take any game lightly in this league….I do believe a big part for the flat performance was due to Fulham having fresher legs…far fresher.

The midfield were so sluggish in everything they did, tracking back, so many simple passes going astray…that’s not down to complacency….it’s the fitness and durability.

I didn't see the game against City the previous week but by all accounts they didn't show any problems fitness-wise or durability-wise
 
But thats always the case, "longterm". Here and now we need one top quality addition. We've still got good quality there, despite the injuries, we don't need to panic buy, which is what it'll be if we'd already decided to wait for our top targets.

And Gary, I'm not dressing it up in any way, you said we'd signed one midfielder since 2018, which is selective bullshit to fit your "it's grim" narrative. We needed a midfielder, it's now been magnified because of four injuries. Thats the only reason its grim, regardless of previous injury records, I don't think we were expecting to lose four at once.

I don't know what the answer is, we all know the pros and cons of our transfer policy. The last tine we had an injury crisis, we ended up playing two reserves we already had, ahead of a panic buy.

That's the thing - many of you have convinced yourselves we were Ok, plus the Charity Shield victory must have given many on here a feeling of contentment with what we have. Me - No - I still get haunted by the Brighton, and Brentford, and Chelsea games from last season, and even the City game at home where we squandered leads. When a team has a go at our midfield - they lack the mobility and athleticism to cope - don't fool yourself because we got to the finals and lost the league by a point and the CL final by one goal. That Fulham game was a pattern from last season rearing it's ugly head again. I also feel that many other teams will learn from what they did and try and repeat it, we maybe better prepared - but it takes a lot out of our team.
 
You focus on those games but our approach had an 80% (or something ridiculously high) win rate. I agree that’s where we lost the league but it isn’t a pattern.
 
We had this exact same discussion about the forward line this time last season.

The midfield's not a such a massive problem that one good signing won't solve, more so if just one of Eliott, Jones or Carvalho show they are good enough.
 
You focus on those games but our approach had an 80% (or something ridiculously high) win rate. I agree that’s where we lost the league but it isn’t a pattern.
It is a pattern - always happens, and when it does - they get injured because 7/8 of our midfielders are made of glass. I loved Gini because he was always available and had real drive and muscle. It's that small margin we need to eliminate that will win us the title, otherwise we will continue to be the bridesmaid
 
But he was shit. Which is a polarising opinion. I’m in the he was shit camp.

It’s not a pattern as those games were not the norm. There is one thing you are omitting from your point of view. We are competing with an oil state. We’d have 5 titles had it not been for this brazen disregard of the rules and ineptitude of governing bodies. That’s why we need to be smarter with our money and extract value where possible and not blow cash on stop gaps.

We’ve gained so many points since klopp arrived it is astonishing.
 
There's a balancing act between getting landing the number 1 target (Bellingham) and keeping the squad competitive against a ridiculously strong City side.

We have shifted our approach in recent years to only targeting players that walk into the first team (Thiago, Nunez, Diaz, Konate) and supplementing that with young talent (Elliott, Carvalho, Ramsay) There's no real in-between, which is creating shortages in some key areas. It paid off waiting for VVD. However lets not forget we chose to wait for Konate, had a massive injury crisis and effectively wrote a season off as a result. Not saying Konate will not prove himself worth the wait - I think he will, but we did leave ourselves short and the worst nightmares were realised. We also chose to wait for Naby Keita, who has never fully justified the time we waited, or the fee, with his impact over the course of his contract.

If you consider that Keita and Chamberlain are out of contract next summer and cannot be relied upon to play most weeks, Thiago has a long history of muscle injuries, which are not going to disappear any time soon, Henderson is already on a visible decline in terms of his athletism and often gets a few knocks throughout the year, and Jones did not progress at all last year, there was more than enough evidence to warrant entering the market for a decent CM to share the burden. Klopp has very few faults, but I don't think he, or the team, realistically assess the likeliness of already injury prone players picking up further injuries, and fail to take that into account when planning the squad. Suggesting we have 8 midfielders when it takes 3 of them to play the amount of games Gini did just is not convincing.

Occasionally you just need a sensible, pragmatic signing to make up the numbers. Bissouma at £25M always looked an astute buy, could have contributed from day 1 and in the future. I'm sure there was plenty of others.
 
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But he was shit. Which is a polarising opinion. I’m in the he was shit camp.

It’s not a pattern as those games were not the norm. There is one thing you are omitting from your point of view. We are competing with an oil state. We’d have 5 titles had it not been for this brazen disregard of the rules and ineptitude of governing bodies. That’s why we need to be smarter with our money and extract value where possible and not blow cash on stop gaps.

We’ve gained so many points since klopp arrived it is astonishing.

I don't think the oil state thing washes anymore.

We had a better team and squad last season. Maybe it's about the same this year.

Pep has loads of money, but Klopp has the best wheeler dealers in the world. In terms of turning the best resources into trophies, Guardiola seems to be getting it more right than Klopp.
 
I think it does. Massively. No way they are commercially up to our standards. They wouldn’t get those deals on the open market.
 
I think it does. Massively. No way they are commercially up to our standards. They wouldn’t get those deals on the open market.

Yeah but who cares when they're not using it efficiently?

We've got a ridiculous amount of world class players in our first team. Easily as many as City. That's the ultimate measure of competitiveness.
 
I didn't see the game against City the previous week but by all accounts they didn't show any problems fitness-wise or durability-wise
So you don't think that City game took a lot out of them & plays a factor?

Obviously not saying we'll play every game like we did at Fulham but you will start to see more signs of tear and wear within the group.
 
I don't think the oil state thing washes anymore.

We had a better team and squad last season. Maybe it's about the same this year.

Pep has loads of money, but Klopp has the best wheeler dealers in the world. In terms of turning the best resources into trophies, Guardiola seems to be getting it more right than Klopp.

Of course it does!

If we had City's money, it's likely we would have bought Diaz last summer and Bellingham this Summer.

It makes all the difference between us and them.
 
So you don't think that City game took a lot out of them & plays a factor?

Obviously not saying we'll play every game like we did at Fulham but you will start to see more signs of tear and wear within the group.

If it was a big game on Saturday, no way we would have saw that performance
 
A week ago we had the best side we’ve ever seen after beating shitty. Now we are doomed. Something happened in training this past week. In the charity shield we looked energetic and crisp. This weekend it was flat and lazy.

Going bat shit crazy about midfielders is bloody weird to me. We know who we are getting and when. We’ve spent 8 weeks moaning about certain players not going anywhere and had suitable offers come in, no doubt we’d have sold them and bought in a whorthwhile replacement. That didn’t happen so we are moving on to plan B.

This is our only quite spell of the season. I’m okay having to choose from Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Elliott and Carvalho for now. We can manage between now and early September. If Thiago is out for a lengthy period of time then we may need a rethink but it needs to be bringing in actual targets we have identified and not just getting anyone in just for the sake of getting anyone in. We would end up in the same shitty scenario in a few years time having a sub-par player we just can’t get rid of which sends people here mental.
And which half this forum would be delighted we bought but soon be demanding we sell as soon as we reach the January transfer window.
 
"Liverpool are keen on a swap deal for Inter Milan's Croatia midfielder Marcelo Brozovic, 29, with Brazil forward Roberto Firmino, 30, or Guinea midfielder Naby Keita heading the other way. (Calciomercato - in Italian)"
FFS they are just pulling this crap out of their arses now. We need a midfielder so sell a midfielder for one in one out or sell a player Klopp has literally only just described as 'integral' to the team.
 
I don't think the oil state thing washes anymore.

We had a better team and squad last season. Maybe it's about the same this year.

Pep has loads of money, but Klopp has the best wheeler dealers in the world. In terms of turning the best resources into trophies, Guardiola seems to be getting it more right than Klopp.
Oh it undoubtedly still washes. Throw money at a position until it finally sticks, Cancelo + Haaland just for starters. The total amount spent by City is an utter joke.

Just because we are more astute doesn't mean that City don't have a massive advantage. The fact we have to wait until the player we truly want is available, and affordable, whereas City can easily just buy in cover (or two) for a season.
 
There's a balancing act between getting landing the number 1 target (Bellingham) and keeping the squad competitive against a ridiculously strong City side.

We have shifted our approach in recent years to only targeting players that walk into the first team (Thiago, Nunez, Diaz, Konate) and supplementing that with young talent (Elliott, Carvalho, Ramsay) There's no real in-between, which is creating shortages in some key areas. It paid off waiting for VVD. However lets not forget we chose to wait for Konate, had a massive injury crisis and effectively wrote a season off as a result. Not saying Konate will not prove himself worth the wait - I think he will, but we did leave ourselves short and the worst nightmares were realised. We also chose to wait for Naby Keita, who has never fully justified the time we waited, or the fee, with his impact over the course of his contract.

If you consider that Keita and Chamberlain are out of contract next summer and cannot be relied upon to play most weeks, Thiago has a long history of muscle injuries, which are not going to disappear any time soon, Henderson is already on a visible decline in terms of his athletism and often gets a few knocks throughout the year, and Jones did not progress at all last year, there was more than enough evidence to warrant entering the market for a decent CM to share the burden. Klopp has very few faults, but I don't think he, or the team, realistically assess the likeliness of already injury prone players picking up further injuries, and fail to take that into account when planning the squad. Suggesting we have 8 midfielders when it takes 3 of them to play the amount of games Gini did just is not convincing.

Occasionally you just need a sensible, pragmatic signing to make up the numbers. Bissouma at £25M always looked an astute buy, could have contributed from day 1 and in the future. I'm sure there was plenty of others.

Brilliant post this, your point about Bissouma is spot on. Right now, I actually fear playing teams that have anything like a Bissouma amongst them, can see Fab just standing there watching the traffic go past.
 
Of course it does!

If we had City's money, it's likely we would have bought Diaz last summer and Bellingham this Summer.

It makes all the difference between us and them.

That's not the same thing. Obviously if we had more resources then we'd find it easier to beat City.

My point is the team and squad is easily good enough to compete with City's.
 
Oh it undoubtedly still washes. Throw money at a position until it finally sticks, Cancelo + Haaland just for starters. The total amount spent by City is an utter joke.

Just because we are more astute doesn't mean that City don't have a massive advantage. The fact we have to wait until the player we truly want is available, and affordable, whereas City can easily just buy in cover (or two) for a season.

Our acumen in the market is probably more valuable than City's money. I think the likelihood is that Pep just has a better idea of how to use an extremely good team to overwhelm lesser teams than Klopp does.

If they win it again this year then I'll be pretty much convinced of that tbh.
 
Klopp and LFC - tries to sign Tchouameni

several midfielders get injured

Klopp: we don´t need midfielders - happy with what we got
 
Klopp and LFC - tries to sign Tchouameni

several midfielders get injured

Klopp: we don´t need midfielders - happy with what we got

All about nuance.

Klopp & LFC try to to sign youngster widely regarded as one of the best prospects in the world.

Several midfielders get injured.

Klopp: we don’t need to sign sub standard midfielders - I’m happy with what we got.
 
From Fabrizio Romano, for @moron [article]“Klopp and Liverpool will consider a new midfielder if there is an opportunity on the market. I believe that Sporting Lisbon’s Matheus Nunes is a very interesting player who could be a good fit for this team, but we need to see the amount that the club will be prepared to invest”[/article]
 
Yeah but who cares when they're not using it efficiently?

We've got a ridiculous amount of world class players in our first team. Easily as many as City. That's the ultimate measure of competitiveness.

I think we could argue we have better players and excellent cover than City in most positions - Goalkeeper, central defense, upfront (since the arrival of Diaz). We have good cover in those places also.

At right back and midfield is where City wins out. RB we have a better starting player but there is a significant drop-off if TAA is injured or not in the right frame of mind. Hopefully, the new signing from Aberdeen addresses that. Midfield is where City wins out clearly. The options they have - they can play various combinations without a significant drop-off in quality.
 
I think we could argue we have better players and excellent cover than City in most positions - Goalkeeper, central defense, upfront (since the arrival of Diaz). We have good cover in those places also.

At right back and midfield is where City wins out. RB we have a better starting player but there is a significant drop-off if TAA is injured or not in the right frame of mind. Hopefully, the new signing from Aberdeen addresses that. Midfield is where City wins out clearly. The options they have - they can play various combinations without a significant drop-off in quality.

The thing is, people slag the midfield options but at the end of the day 2 of the 3 are Thiago and Fabinho, both considered 2 of the finest players in the world in their position, and the other is the club captain.

Perhaps we lack depth compared to City, but the actual first team quality is as good as theirs. It's just way more conservative.
 
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