I'm not quite ready to admit we're a "one man team" regardless of what the evidence suggests when he doesn't play, but he's irreplaceable.
Weird how so many people weren't at all enthusiastic about his signing.
The Mane Game
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I'm not quite ready to admit we're a "one man team" regardless of what the evidence suggests when he doesn't play, but he's irreplaceable.
Weird how so many people weren't at all enthusiastic about his signing.
Because he was expensive. Signed from Southampton. Played well against us. He had all the makings of another cunt. We are still cunts regardless, everyone knows we didn't do any proper homework about him at all, but just got lucky this time.
lucky lucky liverpool
I think it's fair to say Klopp did his homework on the lad:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...erpool-star-Sadio-Mane-Borussia-Dortmund.html
It's fair to say the world has yet to destroy your naïve faith in humanity or the words which emanate from people's mouths. Klopp turned him down point blank, he clearly thought he was shit, then to not look like an idiot now he is backtracking to make it look like it was a tough decision, then for good measure he is holding his hands up to make himself look like a man who can acknowledge his mistakes. His bullshit doesn't fly with dantes.
Hang on.... so your argument is we need the best players in the world, capable of unlocking the tightest defences all by themselves, in our team to make us better... but whether they're available, achievable or even actually exist is irrelevant.
Well yes... if only we'd signed Messi, Suarez & Ronaldo in early January... it might have gotten us through until last weekend.
Definitely a missed opportunity.
That's being a bit reductive.
Earlier someone said "yeah, it's dead easy to get another Mane or two" as if Sadio Mane was this fucking unattainable God of a footballer last year when he was at Southampton, and despite hardly anyone clamouring that we should sign him before we were linked, and about half the people here saying "meh" when we did, has now turned into a world football elite player, and there's no more of his quality or level around anywhere, so there's no point trying.
It may not be easy, but implying it's just too stupid to contemplate is silly.
It's a bit like when some halfwits asked who we could get that was "better than Firmino" a few months ago.
What a load of bollox.
Did we sign Mane from Barca of Real?
How about Coutinho?
How about Suarez?
Torres?
Did Leicester sign Mahrez from there?
Messi & Suarez would be good, but keep that Portuguese peacock away from our club.
That's a nice list.
So who are the similarly gifted players we missed out on in January?
Equally it's incredibly easy to bang on about how we should have signed new players in January without actually identifying who those players were.
I agree we need better players. I also agree that those players exist.
What I don't know is whether the players that Klopp wants for his team where available, affordable or even interested in moving to Liverpool.
I also believe that there were or indeed are plenty of over-priced average players available who would have made no discernible improvement to what we currently have.
What, so unless you can name 5 or 6 players who we could possibly get, you are not allowed to express and opinion? You sound like that bellend Oliver Twist.
I'm not a scout. I don't have a vast scouting network. And while I do accept that the club might have myriad issues with signing the players Klopp wants, it's still a little hard to swallow that we didn't make more signings in the last two windows.
As for the last point, well yes, of course. But then at £34m, there was plenty on here who didn't want Mane either.
I was another. My concern was mainly due to the goal drought and Southampton fatigue.
At what point have I suggested you or anyone else isn't allowed to express an opinion.
It's really easy to make vague sweeping general statements without adding any detail then harp on about how right you are.
That old chestnut about not being a scout, etc is a bit weak. I presume you aren't a fully qualified coach with years of experience - it doesn't, nor should it, preclude you from giving your detailed opinion on tactics, etc. - which you do.
I think the point is that this age old tactic of trying to undo someone's argument about us needing players, by shooting it down when they don't unveil a list of possible options, is a bit of an underhanded and cheap trick.
We're Liverpool football club, we're supposed to have a world class scouting system that identifies players from all markets and for all sorts of financial budgets.
I don't think it's that wide of the mark to suggest that not bringing in an attacker in January might be the difference between finishing in the top four or not (or beyond, who knows). I agree with Stevie that the January market isn't the best, but come on. There are footballers the World over and as previously said, we've brought in players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Skrtel, Mascherano, etc in January. It's not a foregone conclusion that it's an impossibility.
We missed Mane when he was out and it showed that we lack depth and we lack a genuine goalscorer. As Brendan, myself, Ross and a few others said at the start of the season, when many idiots were still expressing this myopic view that Klopp's way is the only way, that hardworking attackers and goalscorers fall from a different tree and that (this one gets me everytime, as a complete crock of pretentious fucking laughable bullshit), 20 goals a season players don't exist any more, or something.
Anyway, back to the point. Not buying might come back to haunt us. We might get away with it, hopefully we will and Mane will be the catalyst for an upturn in form. But that's sort of the point isn't it? We have a player again who makes us tick and pushes up the performances of others, without him or facing a spell of poor form from the same player, we could be just as likely to start turning in hit and miss performances with more dropped points here and there. Let's hope we don't come to rue not being active in the transfer window.
As an aside and back to my earlier point about goalscorers. I said back in October that we would buy a goalscoring attacker in the Summer, and asked whether that would more or less confirm that our initial concerns were correct. I guess we'll soon see but I'll put a wager on us doing so, and then let's be honest, that would mean we were right all along.
We'll see.
We're Liverpool football club, we're supposed to have a world class scouting system that identifies players from all markets and for all sorts of financial budgets.
I don't think it's that wide of the mark to suggest that not bringing in an attacker in January might be the difference between finishing in the top four or not (or beyond, who knows). I agree with Stevie that the January market isn't the best, but come on. There are footballers the World over and as previously said, we've brought in players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Skrtel, Mascherano, etc in January. It's not a foregone conclusion that it's an impossibility.
We missed Mane when he was out and it showed that we lack depth and we lack a genuine goalscorer. As Brendan, myself, Ross and a few others said at the start of the season, when many idiots were still expressing this myopic view that Klopp's way is the only way, that hardworking attackers and goalscorers fall from a different tree and that (this one gets me everytime, as a complete crock of pretentious fucking laughable bullshit), 20 goals a season players don't exist any more, or something.
Anyway, back to the point. Not buying might come back to haunt us. We might get away with it, hopefully we will and Mane will be the catalyst for an upturn in form. But that's sort of the point isn't it? We have a player again who makes us tick and pushes up the performances of others, without him or facing a spell of poor form from the same player, we could be just as likely to start turning in hit and miss performances with more dropped points here and there. Let's hope we don't come to rue not being active in the transfer window.
As an aside and back to my earlier point about goalscorers. I said back in October that we would buy a goalscoring attacker in the Summer, and asked whether that would more or less confirm that our initial concerns were correct. I guess we'll soon see but I'll put a wager on us doing so, and then let's be honest, that would mean we were right all along.
We'll see.
Understanding football isn't hard.
Being a scout requires a vast network of contacts, detailed databases on players from all over the world, and watching football players all day, as a job. Having access to all of that, I'd be a very good scout, of that I have little doubt.
It is utterly retarded to try and equate the two. How would I have any in-depth knowledge of every player in Serie A, the Bundesliga, Eredivisie or wherever else a possible Liverpool signing might come from?
I do, however, know when a Liverpool player isn't good enough, or if we need reinforcements in obvious areas, and not having an immediate list of potential replacements from every major league in world football does not make any fucking difference to that opinion, or lessen its veracity in any way.
Because I'm not a scout
The problem is scouting is tending towards evidence, data, statistics. All of those things are backwards looking, the player needs to have killed it, in leagues and games that are of a "high ranking" before they show up on your radar. So by the time something crops up on your infallible statistical analysis, guess what, you're too fucking late.
It'd be so much better if we sacked these spotty faced graduates from the scouting department, and got people who just went round looking at people play football. Once you see a good player, then you can look at the statistics afterwards to confirm your judgement. We're doing it the opposite way around, and there's no words for it except utter stupidity and laziness.
It'd be so much better if we sacked these spotty faced graduates from the scouting department, and got people who just went round looking at people play football. Once you see a good player, then you can look at the statistics afterwards to confirm your judgement. We're doing it the opposite way around, and there's no words for it except utter stupidity and laziness.
When someone states we need someone with "Frightening pace, skill, aggression and finishing", it's very easy to agree - because, let's face it, there isn't a team in the world that that doesn't.
When someone adds - failure to do so in January effectively killed our season then, in my opinion, it's not only relevant but pertinent to ask "what players".
It's a politicians answer - it's like loudly claiming that it's a disgrace that cancer hasn't been cured and then when questioned about how to tackle the problem, advising that as they aren't medically trained or have access to medical research then it's not a question for them to answer.
Which is all true - but kinda makes the original statement a bit wishy-washy.
That's even before we get into the veracity of whether our season hinged on January purchases or the reasons why January was so poor.
The fact that no one seems to be able to identify realistic targets that we could have signed doesn't exactly strengthen the proposition.
Is it because even putting together a basic list would show up the original proclamation for what is is - an empty piece of rhetoric that means nothing.
When someone adds - failure to do so in January effectively killed our season then, in my opinion, it's not only relevant but pertinent to ask "what players".
It's a politicians answer - it's like loudly claiming that it's a disgrace that cancer hasn't been cured and then when questioned about how to tackle the problem, advising that as they aren't medically trained or have access to medical research then it's not a question for them to answer.
Which is all true - but kinda makes the original statement a bit wishy-washy.
That's even before we get into the veracity of whether our season hinged on January purchases or the reasons why January was so poor.
The fact that no one seems to be able to identify realistic targets that we could have signed doesn't exactly strengthen the proposition.
Is it because even putting together a basic list would show up the original proclamation for what is is - an empty piece of rhetoric that means nothing.
It seems easier to assume the players aren't there because we haven't been active.
We don't know if we haven't been active because the players aren't there, or because of some other underlying factor (they wouldn't come, the club wouldn't fund it, Klopp didn't want to).
I think alot of the thoughts on this are backed by this feeling that we've been in a position of strength before and have seen obvious areas where that could be the difference, and we've hesitated and stumbled and ultimately fell behind (again). I don't think it's that unreasonable to question it and ask why aren't being more ambitious at key times.
... and I wouldn't disagree with much of that Mark.
The fact that none of the top teams across Europe, bar a couple of signings here and there, made any significant moves in the transfer market might suggest it was a more closed market in this window.
The answer to all our problems is not necessarily who we did or didn't buy in the January window.
The fact that none of the top teams across Europe, bar a couple of signings here and there, made any significant moves in the transfer market might suggest it was a more closed market in this window.
The answer to all our problems is not necessarily who we did or didn't buy in the January window.
So if not Jan signings, what were / are the answers to our problems?
I think top teams across Europe did not spend much because they are either in top positions in their league or have spent a significant amount in summer (City, Utd) and plan to do so again this summer. We have a negative net spend in summer and our squad could have used a pacy attacking goal scoring midfielder.
Now we are in a risky situation where CL qualification is in doubt. I don't think any top club in Europe would have risked not having a Mane replacement if they were in our situation especially with CL qualifications in doubt. Yes, our "ideal" targets may come 5-10 million cheaper in summer but we also run the risk of loosing 30 million (or whatever?) due to finishing 5th and our "ideal" targets going elsewhere.
There are times we need to look for value and times we may need to overpay to meet an obvious deficiency. If we look for value everytime, we end up being a shittier version of Arsenal.
Everyone's squad could.
We supposedly enquired about Draxler and he choose to go to PSG.
We supposedly inquired about Dahoud, Brandt & Pulisic to be told they weren't going to be sold in this window.
Personally - I blame our poor form in January on :
- A number of key players injured or just returning from injury (Matip, Henderson, Coutinho).
- poor form from other players (Origi, Sturridge, Can).
- AFCON
- congested fixture list
- constant rotation of players during the period - I don't think we fielded the same back 4 in more than one game - if we trying to get consistency, changing the team constantly won't achieve it
- shifting Firmino out wide to accommodate other players centrally, therefore neutralising his effectiveness
- the defence being a bigger problem than attack - we netted 4 in total against Sunderland & Swansea and took 1 point.
- we have a real Jekyll & Hyde approach between top teams and struggling teams - is it our mentality?
It's no coincidence that when we get all our key players back, have them playing in their best positions in a consistent lineup, that we start to look like a much better proposition.
Some of the issues above are bad luck - some could have been managed better or certainly differently.
I don't see how we can realistically blame this on the failure to purchase an unnamed player.
What would the expectations be - that he would immediately slot in to the team, being effective from day one?
What would happen now with the key players all back and starting to perform?
Agreed, but I also think its a case of how important our targets are for their respective clubs.
Brandt is a key player for Leverkusen. They're still in the CL and 4 points off a CL spot in the Bundesliga. Why should they risk the rest of their season for 5-10 mill more?
Yes, the January window has been good to us before but; Coutinho wasnt a regular for Inter, same with Sturridge at Chelsea, Mascherano couldnt get a game for West Ham, Ajax were open to selling Suarez after his ban and him wanting to leave, Agger from a Danish club in their mid season break and Skrtel was bought from a Russian club.
Its as much about timing as anything else. I find myself in agreement with StevieM a lot in this thread.
Its very easy to say we need this and that, but finding the right players isnt easy.
We all know that we should have signed someone in January, Klopp admitted to the same in an interview last night were he talked about squad depth and it sounds like we did try to make something happen.
There were only a couple of big transfers among all the top clubs in Europe in January, that tells its own story.
What we'll hopefully have learned is that we should have done a bit more business during the summer, and it sounded like Klopp will do that in his interview.
We should certainly have done more transfer business in summer, everyone knows that, and it was obvious we would suffer for it.
But it still leaves us with an awful lot to do THIS summer, given we desperately need a new goalkeeper, CB, a LB, central midfielder, attacking midfielder and most of all at least one top quality striker
But it still leaves us with an awful lot to do THIS summer, given we desperately need a new goalkeeper, CB, a LB, central midfielder, attacking midfielder and most of all at least one top quality striker
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