The Lions
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Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Care to make a prediction for Saturday and the overall series?
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Care to make a prediction for Saturday and the overall series?
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Ah i didn't realise that Williams had had a few stitches.
On a side note, that is a huge pack they've named for the game tomorrow
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Ah i didn't realise that Williams had had a few stitches.
On a side note, that is a huge pack they've named for the game tomorrow
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32866.msg888515#msg888515 date=1245068957]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
[/quote]
What form is that?
Running in 3 tries that my Nan could have scored given that the hard work to create the space was done by others does not constitute form in my book. Add that to his propensity to charge out of the defensive line resulting tries by the opposition and I still think that the 11 spot is wide open. I'd prefer Fitzgerald there over Moyne based on what I've seen of the tour so far.
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
[/quote]
What form is that?
Running in 3 tries that my Nan could have scored given that the hard work to create the space was done by others does not constitute form in my book. Add that to his propensity to charge out of the defensive line resulting tries by the opposition and I still think that the 11 spot is wide open. I'd prefer Fitzgerald there over Moyne based on what I've seen of the tour so far.
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=32866.msg888512#msg888512 date=1245068549]
Care to make a prediction for Saturday and the overall series?
[/quote]
I fancy the Lions to take the first test, catching the 'Boks a tad cold.
However from there, I think that the 'Boks will have a bit too much for us.
Prediction 2-1 to the Saffers.*
*Heavy provisio - This is based on the fact the Ronan O'Gara gets nowhere near the test 10 spot.
Care to make a prediction for Saturday and the overall series?
[/quote]
I fancy the Lions to take the first test, catching the 'Boks a tad cold.
However from there, I think that the 'Boks will have a bit too much for us.
Prediction 2-1 to the Saffers.*
*Heavy provisio - This is based on the fact the Ronan O'Gara gets nowhere near the test 10 spot.
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888529#msg888529 date=1245070658]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32866.msg888515#msg888515 date=1245068957]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
[/quote]
What form is that?
Running in 3 tries that my Nan could have scored given that the hard work to create the space was done by others does not constitute form in my book. Add that to his propensity to charge out of the defensive line resulting tries by the opposition and I still think that the 11 spot is wide open. I'd prefer Fitzgerald there over Moyne based on what I've seen of the tour so far.
[/quote]
You can only play what's in front of you and Monye's finished competently, which is more than Williams has managed in similar situations. I happen to agree that Fitzgerald is the more talented player but he's done bugger all to justify being picked ahead of Monye, and Williams has done even less.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=32866.msg888515#msg888515 date=1245068957]
[quote author=bryndaloo link=topic=32866.msg888510#msg888510 date=1245068154]
Mostly.
11 is still up for grabs I reckon - if Shane or Fitzgerald has a blinding game they could easily oust Monye.
Back row will be Heaslip plus 2 from Williams, Wallace, Croft. the only reason Williams isn't on that bench is that he had a few stitches on a leg wound from Saturday. The paucity of back-row cover means that 2 of the 3 had to provide bench cover - Hines at 6 also reinforces that point.
[/quote]
Not "easily" given Monye's form so far, plus the fact that he's big and solid, which is always at a premium against the Springboks. Shane Williams on his day is possibly the best strike runner in the party, but he needs to be on top form to compensate for his lack of physical heft and so far he looks a long way from it. I have a hunch they may want Fitzgerald on the bench because of his versatility.
[/quote]
What form is that?
Running in 3 tries that my Nan could have scored given that the hard work to create the space was done by others does not constitute form in my book. Add that to his propensity to charge out of the defensive line resulting tries by the opposition and I still think that the 11 spot is wide open. I'd prefer Fitzgerald there over Moyne based on what I've seen of the tour so far.
[/quote]
You can only play what's in front of you and Monye's finished competently, which is more than Williams has managed in similar situations. I happen to agree that Fitzgerald is the more talented player but he's done bugger all to justify being picked ahead of Monye, and Williams has done even less.
British and Irish Lions: 15-Lee Byrne, 14-Tommy Bowe, 13-Brian O'Driscoll, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-Ugo Monye, 10-Stephen Jones, 9-Mike Phillips; 8-Jamie Heaslip, 7-David Wallace, 6-Tom Croft, 5-Paul O'Connell (capt), 4-Alun-Wyn Jones, 3-Phil Vickery, 2-Lee Mears, 1-Gethin Jenkins.
Replacements: 16-Matthew Rees, 17-Adam Jones, 18-Donncha O'Callaghan, 19-Martyn Williams, 20-Harry Ellis, 21-Ronan O'Gara, 22-Rob Kearney.
Replacements: 16-Matthew Rees, 17-Adam Jones, 18-Donncha O'Callaghan, 19-Martyn Williams, 20-Harry Ellis, 21-Ronan O'Gara, 22-Rob Kearney.
Pretty much as expected. I wondered if M.Williams might make a late run into the side instead of Croft to combat Brussow, now that Brussow's got the nod for the Springboks, but against that there's the line-out to consider and Croft will definitely help in that area.
Murray out of the tour BTW.
Murray out of the tour BTW.
You'll hate this but, as a non-Union fan, I find that backline overly conservative and I wonder if it's the best that Britain & Ireland has to offer. I agree with Byrne, Bowe, BOD and Philips (Philips due to lack of options) but not much else.
Is Shane Williams injured, out of sorts or what? In form, he's clearly the best winger available but I don't know the circumstances. Stephen Jones has failed big time before, not got the game.
It strikes me as the old England approach, keep it tight, see what happens.
But then, I'm an outsider. The pack I can't comment on, although that Powell could shake things up given the chance. You need a headcase not a strategist at times.
Is Shane Williams injured, out of sorts or what? In form, he's clearly the best winger available but I don't know the circumstances. Stephen Jones has failed big time before, not got the game.
It strikes me as the old England approach, keep it tight, see what happens.
But then, I'm an outsider. The pack I can't comment on, although that Powell could shake things up given the chance. You need a headcase not a strategist at times.
Fair points, espcially from a non-Union man. My suggested answers would be these:
1. I'm not sure the back line is that conservative. It's just that we have had more sheer talent in Lions squads in the past.
2. Agree we're not that well off at scrum-half either. I'd have taken Care and/or Peel instead of Blair. IMO Phillips is in because he's relatively big for a no.9 as much as for any other reason.
3. Shane Williams has been out of form all through the tour so far, which is a real bummer as there's no better attacking player anywhere when he's on his game.
4. I'm not a big fan of O'Gara as a general rule, but I think he's unlucky not to have been picked at 10 given the way the tour has gone so far.
5. My friend Rafa4PM will dispute this till his dying day, but the fact that Powell isn't even on the bench tells you something about the lack of variety in his approach. The Boks can match his physicality all day long. You need to bring more than that to the table when you play them.
1. I'm not sure the back line is that conservative. It's just that we have had more sheer talent in Lions squads in the past.
2. Agree we're not that well off at scrum-half either. I'd have taken Care and/or Peel instead of Blair. IMO Phillips is in because he's relatively big for a no.9 as much as for any other reason.
3. Shane Williams has been out of form all through the tour so far, which is a real bummer as there's no better attacking player anywhere when he's on his game.
4. I'm not a big fan of O'Gara as a general rule, but I think he's unlucky not to have been picked at 10 given the way the tour has gone so far.
5. My friend Rafa4PM will dispute this till his dying day, but the fact that Powell isn't even on the bench tells you something about the lack of variety in his approach. The Boks can match his physicality all day long. You need to bring more than that to the table when you play them.
Cheers JJ. Reading my post back I said 'as a non-Union fan' should have said 'as a non-Union man' as I am fan of Union, just that I'm a League man. That said, I love Union too.
I don't mind Roberts, he's a unit and a half. But, the centres seem a bit too defensive to me.
I can't get my head round a 6 foot 3 scrum half although, in fairness to the guy, he doesn't look like that when he runs. Give me Robert Jones any day of the week though!
Williams is class, full stop. A real game breaker. A Luis Garcia if you like considering what site we're on. But, if the forms not there.
I think Powell would be a good RL player, big one-ups and big hits. I don't understand the technicalities of being a RU forward (and sometimes I think they're by the by) but I like a no nonsense player, and he is one.
Based on the last WC, I think SA might have too much. Hope not obviously.
Some may not agree but I'd like to see a separate Rugby thread, for both codes, where we could swap thoughts etc. I'm from Widnes and we have had millions of ex-RU stars who have been great players e.g Davies, Tait, Moriarty, Devereux, so I respect where they're coming from.
Plus, now I live in Oz, I get to see Giteau etc. first hand.
I don't mind Roberts, he's a unit and a half. But, the centres seem a bit too defensive to me.
I can't get my head round a 6 foot 3 scrum half although, in fairness to the guy, he doesn't look like that when he runs. Give me Robert Jones any day of the week though!
Williams is class, full stop. A real game breaker. A Luis Garcia if you like considering what site we're on. But, if the forms not there.
I think Powell would be a good RL player, big one-ups and big hits. I don't understand the technicalities of being a RU forward (and sometimes I think they're by the by) but I like a no nonsense player, and he is one.
Based on the last WC, I think SA might have too much. Hope not obviously.
Some may not agree but I'd like to see a separate Rugby thread, for both codes, where we could swap thoughts etc. I'm from Widnes and we have had millions of ex-RU stars who have been great players e.g Davies, Tait, Moriarty, Devereux, so I respect where they're coming from.
Plus, now I live in Oz, I get to see Giteau etc. first hand.
Yeah, I'm getting more confident as the game gets closer. The S.Africans are shooting their mouths off more in the press than I remember them doing before, whereas we're just playing it cool, which is a good sign IMO. I'm also not convinced the S.Africans have made the right choice in keeping their Test team away from the Lions in the run-up to the game, as our lads are battle-hardened now, and quietly steaming up.
It's going to be an epic battle, but I think we're good and ready for 'em. I just hope it's reffed properly - if it is, we'll win.
It's going to be an epic battle, but I think we're good and ready for 'em. I just hope it's reffed properly - if it is, we'll win.
We're definitely good enough to win this, no doubt about it. We don't need to match them up front as such, just outfox them a bit.
It's going to be a close game one way or another, but my major worry is that Jones' kicking range could cost us. Our set pieces are good and the backline has enough fire power to cause them serious worries. Hopefully Jones may follow ROG's lead a bit and try some cross field kicks to Bowe in the danger zone, who will be marked by Habana.
The breakdown will obviously be crucial and I think the old mantra "No mistakes, no penalties" is the key for the Lions tomorrow.
It's going to be a close game one way or another, but my major worry is that Jones' kicking range could cost us. Our set pieces are good and the backline has enough fire power to cause them serious worries. Hopefully Jones may follow ROG's lead a bit and try some cross field kicks to Bowe in the danger zone, who will be marked by Habana.
The breakdown will obviously be crucial and I think the old mantra "No mistakes, no penalties" is the key for the Lions tomorrow.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=32866.msg890958#msg890958 date=1245349056]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=32866.msg890828#msg890828 date=1245338682]
I don't understand the technicalities of being a RU forward
[/quote]
Neither does Powell.
[/quote]
Touche
For my part, I think the Lions have a great chance of winning the first test. That's a seasoned team of players there, with leaders everywhere, and the squad seems to have bonded well. I don't think that this is a conservative lineup by any means, particularly in that we are picking ball carrying forwards like Wallace. We're not going to try and play SA at their own game. The lack of tough match practice for SA means this is the best chance for the Lions to win IMO.
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=32866.msg890828#msg890828 date=1245338682]
I don't understand the technicalities of being a RU forward
[/quote]
Neither does Powell.
[/quote]
Touche
For my part, I think the Lions have a great chance of winning the first test. That's a seasoned team of players there, with leaders everywhere, and the squad seems to have bonded well. I don't think that this is a conservative lineup by any means, particularly in that we are picking ball carrying forwards like Wallace. We're not going to try and play SA at their own game. The lack of tough match practice for SA means this is the best chance for the Lions to win IMO.
Agree with that, though as it happens I think we probably can and will overshadow the Boks in the front row. If so, it'll be interesting - and crucial - to see whether a Southern hemisphere ref penalises us for being too good there, like that cheating fecker Watson did to England in 2003.
I really hope refereeing doesn't become an issue. I actually hope and think that the Lions will earn the respect of the refs. I think we'll keep our discipline whilst SA try to bully, and hopefully pay the price.
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=32866.msg883880#msg883880 date=1244412926]
[quote author=the count link=topic=32866.msg883692#msg883692 date=1244373062]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=32866.msg883664#msg883664 date=1244369497]
anyone know of any good lions streams for the tests?
[/quote]
I waatched the match yesterday on Veetle http://www.veetle.com/channelList.php?cat=80which transmits Setanta USA ( among other sports channells) pretty much constantly.
I would assume that the test matches will be on here and the quality is normally very good to excellent.
You will need to download the veetle player but that only takes a few minutes.
[/quote]
cheers Count
[/quote]
is this link/stream still the best for the lions match?
[quote author=the count link=topic=32866.msg883692#msg883692 date=1244373062]
[quote author=red_maradona link=topic=32866.msg883664#msg883664 date=1244369497]
anyone know of any good lions streams for the tests?
[/quote]
I waatched the match yesterday on Veetle http://www.veetle.com/channelList.php?cat=80which transmits Setanta USA ( among other sports channells) pretty much constantly.
I would assume that the test matches will be on here and the quality is normally very good to excellent.
You will need to download the veetle player but that only takes a few minutes.
[/quote]
cheers Count
[/quote]
is this link/stream still the best for the lions match?
S
Squiggles
Guest
Haha, someone on the stream on the SA national anthem:
"Awww, a Lion King song! Simba one day you will be king!"
(Thanks for the link, Doc)
"Awww, a Lion King song! Simba one day you will be king!"
(Thanks for the link, Doc)
S
Squiggles
Guest
Tough penalty for us
Jones misses wide left.
Stunning clearance kick from the SA15.
Jones misses wide left.
Stunning clearance kick from the SA15.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Defence like a sieve
SA 7-0 Lions.
SA 7-0 Lions.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=32866.msg891920#msg891920 date=1245503182]
Tough penalty for us
Jones misses wide left.
Stunning clearance kick from the SA15.
[/quote]
WHich led to a bad lineout by us where we turned over possession, and after a few phases that kick was horribly missed by Byrne and Monye , leading up to the try. Every part of the team malfunctioned for that try.
Look like Monye may have redeemed himself already.
Tough penalty for us
Jones misses wide left.
Stunning clearance kick from the SA15.
[/quote]
WHich led to a bad lineout by us where we turned over possession, and after a few phases that kick was horribly missed by Byrne and Monye , leading up to the try. Every part of the team malfunctioned for that try.
Look like Monye may have redeemed himself already.
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