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The incredible Xabi Alonso thread 2009.

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=33578.msg897245#msg897245 date=1246280893]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897237#msg897237 date=1246280652]
I dont care if he leaves.
At all.
[/quote]

I do but I think we can win without him - I just hope Rafa has someone in mind to replace him. Hamsik!
[/quote]

Is he any good Wiz?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897229#msg897229 date=1246280404]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897219#msg897219 date=1246279658]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897210#msg897210 date=1246278800]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897200#msg897200 date=1246278409]
[quote author=koze link=topic=33578.msg897187#msg897187 date=1246277558]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897153#msg897153 date=1246274949]
And I wouldn't blame him if he did.

I think if I was in his position I'd avoid saying too much.  Let's not look at this summer in isloation; it was Rafa who instigated Alonso moving away from the club last summer. Only Alonso didn't have the luxury of doing it on his own terms, so he sat tight. This summer he's making sure he gets things done on his own terms.

Either he's decided that he doesn't want to stay because he doesn't feel wanted enough because of what happened last summer, or he thinks Rafa is still looking to sell him. Either way, like I said. I don't really blame him, I'd do the same. I wouldn't wanna stay somewhere I'm not wanted.

Rafa's actions from last summer have come back to bite him in the arse, simple as.
[/quote]
Lol.

How could Alonso feel "unwanted" when the manager has explicitly stated that he wanted him to stay?

[/quote]

Eh, because that manager tried to sell him 12 months ago. Maybe he'e not willing to forgive and forget, that's his perogative.
[/quote]

No it isn't, not for a grown man who should know better than to sulk, especially when his form at that time was mediocre.
[/quote]

It's not a "sulk" - sulks don't last 12 months. If Xabi does decide to leave, it will be the result of a lot of hard thinking and time.

At the start of this thread I was really angry and blamed Rafa's because of his actions last season, but in hindsight holding either party is culpable is ultimately pointless. Both Rafa and Xabi have their reasons for what's happened, and I suspect both of them could justify their actions regardless of the outcome this summer.

There's also so much we don't know about; a public plea to stay isn't *everything* is it? We don't know what Rafa's been acting like all year. We pretty much know fuck all.

We as fans have to suck it up and see what happens.
[/quote]

Anita referred to Xabi's possible unwillingness to forgive and forget, and my dictionary defines "sulk" as "fit or state of silence, inactivity or unsociability from resentment or ill temper".  There's no time limit on such things - McMoneyman's lasted longer still.

We don't know how either of them has acted behind the scenes for that matter, but I don't buy the idea that a guy as calculating as Rafa would have treated Xabi like a cnut and then made the kind of public announcement he's come out with, risking an adverse reaction from a player who had been privately outraged.
[/quote]

Rafa risked an "adverse reaction" last summer and that worked out well for him, until now.

That statement pushed Alonso into a corner and he's yet to make up his mind, but we're in no position to crucify Alonso as some spoiled brat, and I think any attempt to do so is pathetic.

Maybe we're all reading too much into everything that went on last summer, because moving to Madrid at present must be tempting for any Spaniard?

The bottom line is, Benitez has to convince Alonso to stay, at least for another year or two. I just hope he's up the job.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=koze link=topic=33578.msg897243#msg897243 date=1246280859]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897228#msg897228 date=1246280340]
It's amazing that Xabi Alonso's credibility can come into question after 5 years or largely excellent service and professionalism.

If he "underperformed for 2 years" he wouldn't be so widely respected amongst the fans, the media and his colleagues.
[/quote]

Kay then, he carried us for those two years..


Christ.
[/quote]

Are you 10?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897254#msg897254 date=1246281060]
[quote author=koze link=topic=33578.msg897243#msg897243 date=1246280859]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897228#msg897228 date=1246280340]
It's amazing that Xabi Alonso's credibility can come into question after 5 years or largely excellent service and professionalism.

If he "underperformed for 2 years" he wouldn't be so widely respected amongst the fans, the media and his colleagues.
[/quote]

Kay then, he carried us for those two years..


Christ.
[/quote]

Are you 10?
[/quote]
Maybe.. But I'm not stupid.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

The sooner this thread dies the better.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897258#msg897258 date=1246281209]
The sooner this thread dies the better.
[/quote]

It keeps coming back to life!
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Last summer isn't comparable. For one thing, Rafa made no public announcement about Xabi leaving and, for another, Xabi hadn't just been our player of the season - far from it.

I actually agree that we don't know whether Xabi's acting like a spoiled brat or not. My point was in reply to Anita's view that, if Xabi HAS refused to forgive and forget, he's entitled to.

And yes, Rafa does have the job of persuading Xabi to stay, but it takes two to tango. It won't be just down to Rafa if things dont work out.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg897258#msg897258 date=1246281209]
The sooner this thread dies the better.
[/quote]
I concur.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897249#msg897249 date=1246280936]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897229#msg897229 date=1246280404]


Anita referred to Xabi's possible unwillingness to forgive and forget, and my dictionary defines "sulk" as "fit or state of silence, inactivity or unsociability from resentment or ill temper". There's no time limit on such things - McMoneyman's lasted longer still.

We don't know how either of them has acted behind the scenes for that matter, but I don't buy the idea that a guy as calculating as Rafa would have treated Xabi like a cnut and then made the kind of public announcement he's come out with, risking an adverse reaction from a player who had been privately outraged.
[/quote]

You should get a new dictionary.
[/quote]

Your concerns have been noted and will be passed to Oxford University Press.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897264#msg897264 date=1246281471]
Last summer isn't comparable. For one thing, Rafa made no public announcement about Xabi leaving and, for another, Xabi hadn't just been our player of the season - far from it.

I actually agree that we don't know whether Xabi's acting like a spoiled brat or not. My point was in reply to Anita's view that, if Xabi HAS refused to forgive and forget, he's entitled to.

And yes, Rafa does have the job of persuading Xabi to stay, but it takes two to tango. It won't be just down to Rafa if things dont work out.
[/quote]

If Rafa wants him to stay should have put that work in *before* Alsono went away for the summer, if he hasn't that only straightens my stance of Alonso being more than entitled to consider his options.

As for Rafa's 'public announcements': they mean sod all. Alonso probably knows that as well as we do. He didn't have to publically announce that he was trying to sell Alonso last summer for the world to know that was the case. Just like him publically saying he wants him to stay this year doesn't mean he won't happily sell him.

Your suggestion about Alonso being a 'brat', is it based on the assumption that Rafa has had a sit down with him where he's made it clear to him that he wants him to stay?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897266#msg897266 date=1246281487]
Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
[/quote]

I love you Oncy, I do. But you could just opt out of the thread if you don't wanna read it.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897270#msg897270 date=1246281775]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897264#msg897264 date=1246281471]
Last summer isn't comparable. For one thing, Rafa made no public announcement about Xabi leaving and, for another, Xabi hadn't just been our player of the season - far from it.

I actually agree that we don't know whether Xabi's acting like a spoiled brat or not. My point was in reply to Anita's view that, if Xabi HAS refused to forgive and forget, he's entitled to.

And yes, Rafa does have the job of persuading Xabi to stay, but it takes two to tango. It won't be just down to Rafa if things dont work out.
[/quote]

If Rafa wants him to stay should have put that work in *before* Alsono went away for the summer, if he hasn't that only straightens my stance of Alonso being more than entitled to consider his options.

As for Rafa's 'public announcements': they mean sod all. Alonso probably knows that as well as we do. He didn't have to publically announce that he was trying to sell Alonso last summer for the world to know that was the case. Just like him publically saying he wants him to stay this year doesn't mean he won't happily sell him.

Your suggestion about Alonso being a 'brat', is it based on the assumption that Rafa has had a sit down with him where he's made it clear to him that he wants him to stay?
[/quote]
Why would public announcements mean sod all?

Rafa publicly announced that Xabi was for sale for the right price last summer. Did that announcement mean sod all too?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897271#msg897271 date=1246281873]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897266#msg897266 date=1246281487]
Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
[/quote]

I love you Oncy, I do. But you could just opt out of the thread if you don't wanna read it.
[/quote]Its like a tractor beam of inane repetetive hysterical bullshit.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Because Rafa claimed Keane was going nowhere less than 24 hours before he was sold.

Rafa never publically announced Alonso was for sale last summer.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897273#msg897273 date=1246282034]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897271#msg897271 date=1246281873]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897266#msg897266 date=1246281487]
Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
[/quote]

I love you Oncy, I do. But you could just opt out of the thread if you don't wanna read it.
[/quote]Its like a tractor beam of inane repetetive hysterical bullshit.
[/quote]

As is most of the forum. What's your point?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897274#msg897274 date=1246282070]
Because Rafa claimed Keane was going nowhere less than 24 hours before he was sold.

Rafa never publically announced Alonso was for sale last summer.
[/quote]
When interviewed about the possibility of Alonso moving to Juve, Rafa did say that if the ask price is matched he's theirs..
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897275#msg897275 date=1246282111]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897273#msg897273 date=1246282034]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897271#msg897271 date=1246281873]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897266#msg897266 date=1246281487]
Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
[/quote]

I love you Oncy, I do. But you could just opt out of the thread if you don't wanna read it.
[/quote]Its like a tractor beam of inane repetetive hysterical bullshit.
[/quote]

As is most of the forum. What's your point?
[/quote]Dont get touchy with me missus!
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I should stay out of here, this thread gives me a headache.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg897105#msg897105 date=1246270835]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg897100#msg897100 date=1246270080]
442 won't work. We might have drop Gerrard back and buy another striker or behind Torres, but then who can we buy that will replace Gerrard in that position?
[/quote]

?

If Gerrard is playing in midfield and another striker is playing alongsider Torres, is that not a 4-4-2?

I'd have Sneijder if Madrid are willing to be reasonable, i.e. the price is nowhere near the 20M they paid.


[/quote]

I think 4231 works so much better and we should not go for a 442.
We should put Gerrard back in the middle and buy another to play in the middle of the 3 behind Torres.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg897282#msg897282 date=1246282733]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg897105#msg897105 date=1246270835]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg897100#msg897100 date=1246270080]
442 won't work. We might have drop Gerrard back and buy another striker or behind Torres, but then who can we buy that will replace Gerrard in that position?
[/quote]

?

If Gerrard is playing in midfield and another striker is playing alongsider Torres, is that not a 4-4-2?

I'd have Sneijder if Madrid are willing to be reasonable, i.e. the price is nowhere near the 20M they paid.


[/quote]

I think 4231 works so much better and we should not go for a 442.
We should put Gerrard back in the middle and buy another to play in the middle of the 3 behind Torres.
[/quote]

But perhaps 4-2-3-1 works so well just because Gerrard plays off Torres?
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg897282#msg897282 date=1246282733]
I think 4231 works so much better and we should not go for a 442.
We should put Gerrard back in the middle and buy another to play in the middle of the 3 behind Torres.
[/quote]

But if Gerrard does what Gerrard does best, it's no longer *really* a 4-2-3-1 because Gerrard won't and shouldn't play like a holding midfielder.

So, it's kinda the same as what I was saying in the other Xabi thread - we'd have to change our system slightly so that we're no longer playing with two holding midfielders, rather two more attacking midfielders.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

4-1-4-1

The frustration of all this makes me think of that Mike Bassett England Manager scene.

"Just go wherever the fuck you like!"
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897270#msg897270 date=1246281775]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897264#msg897264 date=1246281471]
Last summer isn't comparable. For one thing, Rafa made no public announcement about Xabi leaving and, for another, Xabi hadn't just been our player of the season - far from it.

I actually agree that we don't know whether Xabi's acting like a spoiled brat or not. My point was in reply to Anita's view that, if Xabi HAS refused to forgive and forget, he's entitled to.

And yes, Rafa does have the job of persuading Xabi to stay, but it takes two to tango. It won't be just down to Rafa if things dont work out.
[/quote]

If Rafa wants him to stay should have put that work in *before* Alsono went away for the summer, if he hasn't that only straightens my stance of Alonso being more than entitled to consider his options.

As for Rafa's 'public announcements': they mean sod all. Alonso probably knows that as well as we do. He didn't have to publically announce that he was trying to sell Alonso last summer for the world to know that was the case. Just like him publically saying he wants him to stay this year doesn't mean he won't happily sell him.

Your suggestion about Alonso being a 'brat', is it based on the assumption that Rafa has had a sit down with him where he's made it clear to him that he wants him to stay?
[/quote]

Alonso has 3 years left on the 5 year contract worth 4.5M GBP/year that Rafa gave him 2 years ago. Rafa has to sort a squad out and the players with 3 years on their contract do not usually find their way to the top of the priority pile 2 minutes after the season ends.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897278#msg897278 date=1246282428]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897275#msg897275 date=1246282111]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897273#msg897273 date=1246282034]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897271#msg897271 date=1246281873]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg897266#msg897266 date=1246281487]
Myth 1.Alonso wasnt 'rubbish' for 2 years. But he wasnt anything better than average most of the time.
Myth 2.Rafa didnt try to sell him without his knowledge.

This argument is the dullest in the history of the internet.
Some love him and think hes the victim, some think hes a jebend, some just want him to fucking go or stay.
No ones coming out of this smelling of roses (torres excluded obv) do we really need to read the same fucking boring posts over and over again.
[/quote]

I love you Oncy, I do. But you could just opt out of the thread if you don't wanna read it.
[/quote]Its like a tractor beam of inane repetetive hysterical bullshit.
[/quote]

As is most of the forum. What's your point?
[/quote]Dont get touchy with me missus!
[/quote]

😛
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897270#msg897270 date=1246281775]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg897264#msg897264 date=1246281471]
Last summer isn't comparable. For one thing, Rafa made no public announcement about Xabi leaving and, for another, Xabi hadn't just been our player of the season - far from it.

I actually agree that we don't know whether Xabi's acting like a spoiled brat or not. My point was in reply to Anita's view that, if Xabi HAS refused to forgive and forget, he's entitled to.

And yes, Rafa does have the job of persuading Xabi to stay, but it takes two to tango. It won't be just down to Rafa if things dont work out.
[/quote]

If Rafa wants him to stay should have put that work in *before* Alsono went away for the summer, if he hasn't that only straightens my stance of Alonso being more than entitled to consider his options.

As for Rafa's 'public announcements': they mean sod all. Alonso probably knows that as well as we do. He didn't have to publically announce that he was trying to sell Alonso last summer for the world to know that was the case. Just like him publically saying he wants him to stay this year doesn't mean he won't happily sell him.

Your suggestion about Alonso being a 'brat', is it based on the assumption that Rafa has had a sit down with him where he's made it clear to him that he wants him to stay?
[/quote]

No argument about the first para.

Disagree about the second. By making a positive statement in the media Rafa puts himself right in the firing-line, especially since everybody did indeed know he was looking to sell last summer. And whatever else Rafa can be accused of, cutting his own throat isn't on the list. He's seen, as we all have, how important Xabi was to us last season, so I doubt very much that he'll "happily" sell him even if he ultimately has to.

I don't know how often I have to repeat this, but here goes one more time - I am not accusing Xabi of being a brat. What I am saying, and stand by, is that IF even now he is still narked about last summer - your suggestion, not mine, originally - I don't think that speaks well of him at all.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Biggus Dickus link=topic=33578.msg897294#msg897294 date=1246284143]

Alonso has 3 years left on the 5 year contract worth 4.5M GBP/year that Rafa gave him 2 years ago. Rafa has to sort a squad out and the players with 3 years on their contract do not usually find their way to the top of the priority pile 2 minutes after the season ends.


[/quote]

Any decent man-manager would have taken into account what happened last summer and sat down with him to reassure him he was a part of his plans if that's what he really wanted.

RE JJ too: All this 'he's being a brat' etc is all very well, but try to relate it to your own working situations, not many people would stick around in a job where their manager had tried to push them out.

Also, JJ, by Rafa going public and saying he wants to keep him, it means the exact opposite; he spares himself the firing line. He knows a lot of fans want Alonso to stay, so by him publically saying he wants the same, he knows the fans can't blame him and will accept that it was Xabi himself that wanted to leave.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

If Alonso felt he'd been slighted he should have asked to leave last summer, or last January. I'm sick of all this moralising claptrap. If he goes it's for money, plain and simple.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg897308#msg897308 date=1246286168]
RE JJ too: All this 'he's being a brat' etc is all very well, but try to relate it to your own working situations, not many people would stick around in a job where their manager had tried to push them out.

[/quote]

Voronin wants to come back, and he hasn't exactly been made to feel wanted. Pennant had to be forced out the door. Players only get all sensitive when it suits them.
 
Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I wouldn't for a second believe that he would leave for the money, that's total BS, sorry G-Mak.

Pennant and Voronin were fringe players, not integral players who thought they were secure at the club.
 
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