The improvement in Lucas Leiva

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=43083.msg1230293#msg1230293 date=1291751909]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=43083.msg1230291#msg1230291 date=1291751192]
"partly" guilty for one goal made that him poor in that game? Poo.
[/quote]

Ermm yes it did.
He was invisible for the rest of the match...
[/quote]

that's just rubbish; Wigan & Stoke he was rubbish but certainly not against Spurs.

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43083.msg1230399#msg1230399 date=1291778715]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=43083.msg1230293#msg1230293 date=1291751909]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=43083.msg1230291#msg1230291 date=1291751192]
"partly" guilty for one goal made that him poor in that game? Poo.
[/quote]

Ermm yes it did.
He was invisible for the rest of the match...
[/quote]

that's just rubbish; Wigan & Stoke he was rubbish but certainly not against Spurs.


[/quote]

Yep, complete rubbish. But that's Le Chacal for ya.

He'll cling to the opinion too.

 

[spider-Neil]

if lucas wants to take his game to the next level he needs to learn to dominate opposition that give him less time on the ball i.e. away games.
lucas also needs to get down the gym and put on some muscle so he is harder to shrug off the ball.
it is pleasing though that lucas is learning to release the ball quicker which I thought was a big flaw of his.

 

[Pesam]

I still think he's a poor player and am 100% convinced he'll never be good enough for us even as a squad player.

He did play well against Villa but their central midfield consisted of two anaemic kids (Hogg & Clarke) and capitulated almost immediately.

IMO at his best Lucas would be an acceptable option for the likes of Birmingham, Sunderland, West Ham etc.

I will be delighted to be proved wrong and will be the first to admit it if and when he becomes a positive force in our recovery.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Morse, where can I view the Player of the Season thread for the Spurs match?

 

[Morse]

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=42956.0

 

[Mamma Mia]

Cheers.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=43083.msg1230091#msg1230091 date=1291731278]

And I feel some people tend to give him too much credit when he has a good game just because some go over the top when he has a bad one.

He has improved but I think it's fair to say he needs a lot more of those good games to convince it is not just a peak in form.
[/quote]

I'm not basing my judgement on one game. I'm basing it on what I see in front of me this season - every game - in the flesh. If I think he's been shit I'll say so. If he's played well and shown consistent improvement then I'll say so as well. he has so I have. It's as simple as that. Without getting into the match going\TV debate you simply cannot get a full view of the game on the tellybox or some shitty internet stream
[/quote]

No debate, you never see as much on the telly as you do live at the game.

Lucas has been the most improved player we have this year.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

A Gerrard 6/10 or 7/10 is a Lucas 9/10.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=43083.msg1230793#msg1230793 date=1291852407]
A Gerrard 6/10 or 7/10 is a Lucas 9/10.
[/quote]

Gerrard is one of the best players in the world. We couldn't afford a player in that class and they are seldom available anyway so its an unfair comparison.

 

[Mojo]

Just seen on the offal that we're starting talks about offering him a new deal.

Fuck, fuck, fuckity fuck!!!

The boy has been playing better than he was previously, but he's still not Liverpool 1st team quality IMO.

 

[SummerOnions]

how many years are left on his contract?

 

[Portly]

I don't think it means very much. I think players' contracts are routinely extended to preserve their sales value.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Whatever your opinions on Lucas, I cannot understand how someone who has been one of our better performers for a season and a half can be called "not Liverpool 1st team quality".

He plainly is. What that says about our current level of quality is a different matter.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=43083.msg1231445#msg1231445 date=1291967142]
Whatever your opinions on Lucas, I cannot understand how someone who has been one of our better performers for a season and a half can be called "not Liverpool 1st team quality".

He plainly is. What that says about our current level of quality is a different matter.
[/quote]

Obviously not everyone, myself included, agrees that he has been one of our better performers. Still I agree a reaction like Mojo's here is a bit stupid. Portly has got it right, it would be bad business to let contracts run down even if a player isn't perhaps considered to be in a team's long term plans as it would only reduce their sell on value. And I do believe Lucas would fetch a decent fee if we ever decided to cash in.

Didn't Sissoko too sign an extension like 6 months before he was sold?

 

[Mamma Mia]

Not one of our better performers? Aside from Reina, who else has been consistently better over the last year?

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=43083.msg1231465#msg1231465 date=1291968672]
Not one of our better performers? Aside from Reina, who else has been consistently better over the last year?
[/quote]

That was not the point in my post and I really don't want to get into that. If you are talking about performance vs. expectations then you are correct though.

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=43083.msg1231465#msg1231465 date=1291968672]
Not one of our better performers? Aside from Reina, who else has been consistently better over the last year?
[/quote]

I can't think of many who have been consistently worse, maybe Maxi, Poulsen & Babel - that's about it.

 

[Molbystwin]

Dont hate him i'm just thoroughly uninspired by him as a player and after 3 years pretty much certain that he isnt good enough, yes he is playing quite well at the minute but still....

 

[ILD]

Relax people. He is playing well of late so contract talk is bound to emerge. As Portly said earlier, signing of a contract can protect a potential transfer fee.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I personally don't agree with extending players contracts to prtoect their fee, if it's solely for that reason. We should only be offering players pay rises and extensions if we intend on keeping them.

Some players get an extra 40k a week, which is 2m a year. That adds up, it also means, if they're not good enough you'll struggle to sell him on, on those wages, or may even have to pay some of them to get rid.

I'm talking in general about this, not about Lucas. He may well be worth the extension.

 

[Akakabooto]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=43083.msg1231611#msg1231611 date=1291981998]
I personally don't agree with extending players contracts to prtoect their fee, if it's solely for that reason. We should only be offering players pay rises and extensions if we intend on keeping them.

Some players get an extra 40k a week, which is 2m a year. That adds up, it also means, if they're not good enough you'll struggle to sell him on, on those wages, or may even have to pay some of them to get rid.

I'm talking in general about this, not about Lucas. He may well be worth the extension.
[/quote]

Obviously it has to be done smartly and only with those players that actually have value in the transfer market and who are still useful if we can't/don't want to sell. I doubt(hope) Lucas has got that big of a pay rise, nowhere near 40k rise anyway.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I'm taking a guess at figures here, but I reckon he's probably on about 30k now, I wouldn't be surprised to see it doubled. Costing us 1.5m per year, on top of what we're alreday paying him.

Perhaps someone could tell us what he's on now?

My point really was against, the fear Liverpool fans have since Macca and Owen. Obviously with players of their class, that we intend on keeping, we should be offering them extensions, but not players that we don't really care one way or the other. I think Lucas falls more into the second bracket than the first.

(Obviously I'm making assumptions on his current and potential new contract to make a point)

 

[Portly]

What I am hoping is that Rafa used Lucas in completely the wrong way by appointing him as Mascher's little (unnecessary) helper with instructions not to stray out of our own half. Lucas is not a good tackler and gave away too many free kicks in that role.

Now Lucas is being given more freedom he has had some good games. This may explain the mystery of why the Brazilians think so much of him. However I will not be surprised if this theory is proved wrong in the long-term and Lucas is just not up to Premier League football.

 

[Scotino]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=43083.msg1231629#msg1231629 date=1291983515]
What I am hoping is that Rafa used Lucas in completely the wrong way by appointing him as Mascher's little (unnecessary) helper with instructions not to stray out of our own half. Lucas is not a good tackler and gave away too many free kicks in that role.

Now Lucas is being given more freedom he has had some good games. This may explain the mystery of why the Brazilians think so much of him. However I will not be surprised if this theory is proved wrong in the long-term and Lucas is just not up to Premier League football.
[/quote]

From the times I've seen him play for Brazil, he's been employed in a role quite similar to that which Rafa Benitez played him in here. In that he didn't tend to "stray" much from his own half.