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The Future under NESV

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[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200595#msg1200595 date=1287475722]
There is a tendency on this site to jump on any fan who says or does anything publicly and call them no-marks, self appointed wannabes or (the worst of all insults) a RAWKite!

How much abuse did those who proposed to go down to the High Court and demonstrate against H&G get here (they were going to cause the judge to rule against us apparently), and yet when all said & done those people were thanked by the board and new owners for their support and told "it made a difference".

So some guy says that most fans would support a redevelopment & he is ridiculed; he also says in the same breath that a move across the road is "no probelm at all" (but we'll conveniently ignore that) - nor do I hear the outrage that he dared represent fellow supporters when he said that a ground share was a "big NO", how dare he speak on our behalf without first asking permission or seeign if there were maybe one or two fans on internet forums who actually do want groundshare.
[/quote]

it doesn't matter about him sayin about moving across the road being no issue. If it was worded like that he is potentially misleading Henry. He's leading towards the conclusion most would like to stay at Anfield. Most ideally would, but we NEED to move and it's this cold hard fact nearly all fans accept. This one person has no right in saying a majority would like to stay unless he can back it up, and i don't think he can

Also, RE: high court. Their appearance made no difference. If it did then that Judge should be sacked and disbarred or whatever the term is. If he is swayed by crowd activity then he is not impartial and he is not taking the facts for what they are. I stand by my belief they would have done more harm than good as it could be viewed as a bullying tactic. AND besides all that, what the fuck is broughton going to fuckign say? "Lads.....what the fuck you doing here? You've wasted money coming down and you've accomplished nothing". It also shows a lack of resect for the other cases going on. Like the 7/7 inquest at the time, on the same day at the same building. There could be grieving people walking in and out all day and you've got a bunch of tits in football shirts singing "yanks out"? Do me a favour. I apreciate the effort that went in before the trial, however mobbing the court would never help
 
Those just sound like notes taken down. We don't really know how things were actually conveyed.

I don't see anything too controversial in those comments. The owners will have observed that fans love the current ground (duh!), but would have no issues with moving - so essentially it's been said to them "do what you think is best".

What's the problem?
 
I dont see a problem with it.

Plus Henry et al arent going to think that this guy (and his group) represents everyone but it does give them an insight into what a cross-section of the fans think.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42275.msg1200596#msg1200596 date=1287475992]
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200595#msg1200595 date=1287475722]
There is a tendency on this site to jump on any fan who says or does anything publicly and call them no-marks, self appointed wannabes or (the worst of all insults) a RAWKite!

How much abuse did those who proposed to go down to the High Court and demonstrate against H&G get here (they were going to cause the judge to rule against us apparently), and yet when all said & done those people were thanked by the board and new owners for their support and told "it made a difference".

So some guy says that most fans would support a redevelopment & he is ridiculed; he also says in the same breath that a move across the road is "no probelm at all" (but we'll conveniently ignore that) - nor do I hear the outrage that he dared represent fellow supporters when he said that a ground share was a "big NO", how dare he speak on our behalf without first asking permission or seeign if there were maybe one or two fans on internet forums who actually do want groundshare.
[/quote]

it doesn't matter about him sayin about moving across the road being no issue. If it was worded like that he is potentially misleading Henry. He's leading towards the conclusion most would like to stay at Anfield. Most ideally would, but we NEED to move and it's this cold hard fact nearly all fans accept. This one person has no right in saying a majority would like to stay unless he can back it up, and i don't think he can
[/quote]


but i think he was referring to anfield being redeveloped rather than just staying there, which i'd have thought probably would have majority support as long as it was feasible and similarly lucrative. tbh i still don't really understand why anyone would think otherwise, unless like redshrek you had a vested interest in the area being redeveloped...why would you want a 60k new ground on stanley park ahead of a 60k anfield? doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42275.msg1200601#msg1200601 date=1287476346]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42275.msg1200596#msg1200596 date=1287475992]
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200595#msg1200595 date=1287475722]
There is a tendency on this site to jump on any fan who says or does anything publicly and call them no-marks, self appointed wannabes or (the worst of all insults) a RAWKite!

How much abuse did those who proposed to go down to the High Court and demonstrate against H&G get here (they were going to cause the judge to rule against us apparently), and yet when all said & done those people were thanked by the board and new owners for their support and told "it made a difference".

So some guy says that most fans would support a redevelopment & he is ridiculed; he also says in the same breath that a move across the road is "no probelm at all" (but we'll conveniently ignore that) - nor do I hear the outrage that he dared represent fellow supporters when he said that a ground share was a "big NO", how dare he speak on our behalf without first asking permission or seeign if there were maybe one or two fans on internet forums who actually do want groundshare.
[/quote]

it doesn't matter about him sayin about moving across the road being no issue. If it was worded like that he is potentially misleading Henry. He's leading towards the conclusion most would like to stay at Anfield. Most ideally would, but we NEED to move and it's this cold hard fact nearly all fans accept. This one person has no right in saying a majority would like to stay unless he can back it up, and i don't think he can
[/quote]


but i think he was referring to anfield being redeveloped rather than just staying there, which i'd have thought probably would have majority support as long as it was feasible and similarly lucrative. tbh i still don't really understand why anyone would think otherwise, unless like redshrek you had a vested interest in the area being redeveloped...why would you want a 60k new ground on stanley park ahead of a 60k anfield? doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
[/quote]

no no i understand that it's about redevelopment. However much i'd love to stay at anfield, we need to build a stadium like old trafford, where we can add more seats at the end of each year if we need to. If we redevelop anfield we'll lose revenue if we do it one stand at a time, or if we do it in 1 hit we might have to share another ground while it's getting done

i'd rather have a nice massive state of the art stadium over the road
 
fair point about the lost revenue, but i'm guessing that a redev. would be a fair bit cheaper than a new build, so really that's just an extra cost, isn't it? say new build is £350m as opposed to £150m for redev., then lost revenue of maybe £20-30m in total looks very affordable. i know i'm just guessing with the figures but what i'm saying is that i doubt any lost revenue would be a major financial stumbling block.

ok, so fans would miss out for a season but i'd have thought that a small price to pay really.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42275.msg1200606#msg1200606 date=1287477087]
fair point about the lost revenue, but i'm guessing that a redev. would be a fair bit cheaper than a new build, so really that's just an extra cost, isn't it? say new build is £350m as opposed to £150m for redev., then lost revenue of maybe £20-30m in total looks very affordable. i know i'm just guessing with the figures but what i'm saying is that i doubt any lost revenue would be a major financial stumbling block.

ok, so fans would miss out for a season but i'd have thought that a small price to pay really.
[/quote]

True enough. I thought the redevelopment had already been looked into though in the past and it was deemed "more expensive" than building a fresh stadium. I would like a new stadium just to identify us more than our current one.
 
People are missing the original point.
It's the principle of it. In this case it was someone with an opportunity to tell JH what he thought, they were his personal views, but at the same time he was labelled as a fans spokesman. Who decided he was going to be a fans spokesman? Anyone on here have a say? Who was he in fact? What are his qualifications?

We spoke of this the other day, it's all very well everyone saying we want fans representation , but who is going to do the job and how are they selected/elected. Is it going to come from a disparate protest group, is it going to come from internet forums, is it going to come from people that hold season tickets how will it happen.

In this case he was from Kop Faithfull and in fairness they have done more from a practical point of view as regards the change of ownership with an internet terrorist campaign in recent weeks than SoS have done for all their blustering and burning of American flags, how ironic was that? How much harm could that have done, they of course distanced themselves from it, but knew it was going to happen, just like they distanced themselves from the Munich songs at one of their meetings.

In all my years as man and boy no one has spoken for me and I don't want a load of undemocratic would be activists doing it now.
If there was a democratically formed group with a respected figure head that might be a different matter, but you have to be very careful with how much power they think they have

regards
 
Don't worry vlad i completely agree with your point, and in my opinion it would be idiocy to disagree with it. I don't like him talking for us and i went off on a tangent about the stadium. My sincerest apologies
 
That's OK Mr W , points well made just the same 😉
I muddied the waters a little by picking up on the stadium development, as that is something I personally disagree about. Tom makes a good case though, I could equally have used the shared stadium issue to make the point. I didn't because I am pretty sure that the majority are against the shared stadium, it is just as valid an example.


regards
 
So the rumour about a Liverpool fan within NESV emailing Henry is actually true:


How an email helped save LFC
19th Oct 2010 - Latest News



While all the talk over recent days has quite rightly centred around new owners John W Henry and Thomas Werner, it isn't by accident that they've brought a passionate LFC fan with them to England.


Joe Januszewski has been alongside Henry and Werner as they've toured Melwood, Anfield and the club's city centre offices since completing the purchase of the Reds on Friday.

A Liverpool fan for the past 20 years, Joe became so distressed and disillusioned with the way his club was heading under the previous ownership that he sent an internal company email asking if there was anything NESV could do to help out. The rest, of course, is now history...

Joe, first of all, a warm welcome to Liverpool Football Club...

"It's been an incredible ride the last 67 days since we first got involved and started taking a hard look at the opportunity here with Liverpool Football Club. It's amazing that it has culminated with us being here today on Merseyside."

On a personal level, have you always been a football fan - or a soccer fan?

"Yes. I do call it football! In my house we call it football, but obviously soccer is the more familiar term in the States. I took to it at a young age. My father is a military man, a US army career officer, and I spent the first five years or so of my life living in Germany.

"Believe it or not, my first memory is when I was about two-and-a-half and the World Cup came to West Germany. We lived off base and I remember all the local German kids out kicking the ball and talking about 'Der Kaiser' (Franz Beckenbauer). Of course, they ended up beating the Dutch that year in a great final and that was my first memory.

"When we moved to the States when I was five, I took that love I'd secured at an early age with me and immediately started playing football in the town where I was living. I played for about eight years and loved it.

"Then in the early 80s, the opportunity to play football actually ran out for me as the town where I was living did not have a high school or secondary school club and that was it, so I started playing baseball. But I never lost my love for the beautiful game."

What's your first memory or association with English football?

"Actually it's a tragic one. I recall watching the news, just finishing up my high school years in April of 1989, and I remember seeing footage - horrible, horrible footage - of Hillsborough. I remember my mother actually crying because it was horrific, and I think it struck a sympathetic chord, as of course I am sure it did with everybody who read about that horrible day.

"It stuck with me and I think I maybe drew back to the fact that my dad was a big Beatles fan. He loved the Beatles, everybody did, but I remember as a youngster, even going back to Germany, he had one of those old reel-to-reel players, which are totally obsolete now, and a lot of Beatles tracks.

"So I remember listening to the Beatles and of course I knew where they were from and the great history of Liverpool - the ship building, the dockyards, how the Titanic was built there and all the rest of it.

"I think I made some kind of connection there emotionally and that was really cemented for me when I went off to university and ran into some ex-pats from Liverpool and made friends with them. They'd espouse the virtues of Liverpool Football Club with the great European nights of Paisley, King Kenny and Souness, and raising the trophies in Rome, London and Paris. It just stuck with me and I thought, 'Liverpool FC - I'm in!'

"That was 20-odd years ago. Of course, it was very difficult to follow the club then. There were no international TV rights in the US and no internet, so the ability to follow them was limited.

"But in the late 90s and early 2000s, with the growth of digital media, it became much easier to follow the club and it's really been in the last decade that I've been able to follow the side closely daily. I started to come and see matches about five or six years ago and got absolutely caught up in the magic of supporting this incredible club."



The more you followed Liverpool Football Club from afar, did you find your love for them growing?

"Yes, no question. Distance has made this heart grow fonder! That's why it is so incredible to be here on Merseyside today talking about the club and my relationship with them. My first match watching Liverpool was an exhibition over in the States several years ago. I think Michael Owen scored the winner against Roma which I believe was his last goal for Liverpool.

"I came to Anfield and experienced it for myself for a fixture against Man United in January 2005. Rooney scored at the Kop end and it ended 1-0 to the other guys, but just singing the songs, seeing the Kop rise as one when the guys came out for the warm ups, and the banners - I get goose bumps now just thinking about it.

"From then on, I had the great pleasure and privilege of travelling to Istanbul as a supporter just to take it in - thankfully I didn't leave at half-time! Some folks did, though they'll never admit it! I stayed until the end and obviously it was one of the greatest nights of my life, and then there was Athens and the rest.

"I've had a chance to experience the passion of Liverpool Football Club as a supporter up close and personal and that's what makes this day today, and this opportunity and occasion so special for me and all of us at NESV."

You mention Istanbul and all the other triumphs Liverpool have achieved in the past. Over recent years, it's not been so great - has it been difficult living so far away and supporting a team that have been struggling?

"It's difficult regardless of where you live seeing your side struggle. It's frustrating. We're sports fans and that's why we're in this business. It's a business, there's no question, but there has to be more than just that. There's a love and a passion there.

"People walk into my office at Fenway Park, look around and they say, 'I see plenty of Red Sox paraphernalia around here, but there's just as much Red gear related to this football club as there is the Red Sox.' I tell them baseball is my business and has been my business in sport, but Liverpool and football is my passion.

"So when your passion struggles on the pitch, you suffer. It's sports and you have to get through it - but that doesn't mean you're not geared up for every matchday.

"In our house we have three young boys, we've all got our kits on, my youngest has got a baby grow on and my wife has got the coffee on because obviously matches are on much earlier over there than they are here!

"Hope springs eternal every matchday, so you stick by your side. If you fall on a hard patch, you charge on and look forward to a better day - and we're looking forward to many bright days ahead here at Liverpool."



I believe you are more than a bit responsible for the position the club now finds itself in. Tell us more...

"As I mentioned earlier, my sentiment and passion for football and Liverpool FC in particular are well known in my organisation in NESV. I've not been a closet supporter.

"I've followed with great interest what was going on over here and the troubles around the ownership, and then obviously when it came up for sale, who wouldn't want to put a bug in the ear of the ownership to look at this?

"It was a passing comment I made to our present CEO Larry Lucchino: 'You should really take a look at this. We should talk to John and Thomas and see if we can get some interest in the partners.'

"I think he dismissed it, but then there was a baseball match going on in Toronto and I got a call from John Henry and Larry Lucchino and they said, 'tell us more about Liverpool.'

"It was hard to hear. I was at home nursing my nine-month-old, had the bottle going and was actually watching the Red Sox on television. They called me on my mobile asking me to tell them what was going on with the situation.

"It was very loud in the background and John said, 'just send us an email.' So I got on the computer and did a quick summary of my point of view and opinion on what I'd been reading about. I put my own two cents at the end and said: 'I think there's an incredible opportunity here at one of the biggest clubs in the world. I know I won't be looked at as having an objective point of view owing to my support of the club, but I do think it might be worthwhile for us to look at it.' You know, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"An hour later, John sent a response and added in some of our other key executives on the NESV team. It said: 'Find out everything you can.' That was it.

"The next day we formed a working group at Fenway Park with the Fenway Sports Group, the Red Sox and NESV executive team. I guess that was 67 days ago and that leads us here to Melwood."

So right at the beginning when your suggestion was being taken seriously, how did that make you feel?

"Of course there was a tremendous sense of pride, but also an incredible sense of responsibility. This is big business we're talking about here. It's something you don't take lightly.

"So I did feel a personal responsibility, but I'm surrounded by some of the best men and women in professional sports globally I would argue. I had a tremendous confidence in our team.

"Sure there is pride of ownership and being the guy on the ground who knows the club as much as you can know them from afar, but it was inspiring. You're not sleeping much but don't really feel like you're missing it because there's such an adrenaline rush and enthusiasm with being part of something as exciting as this.

"In the beginning we were all hoping for the best, but who knew what the chances were at the end? But our ownership has vision and they have belief in their team, and that's one of the things that really makes us special. They allow the men and women on the ground who are working day in, day out to do their job and they listen. They're incredibly good listeners and ultimately that led to us seeing the opportunity and really just wanting to be part of something special.

"These guys want to win. I joined NESV in the first year of its existence on the Red Sox side and then growing into the Fenway Sports Group, which launched in 2004, and I've seen incredible growth - but at the end of the day, they're here to win.

"We won the World Series in 2004, we won it 2007, we just missed it in 2003 and 2008, and we're making a conservative effort to go back after it for 2011.

"The good news is there's plenty of resource and plenty of human capital - people who are excited about this.

"There's a great team already on board at Liverpool FC and we're looking forward to partnering with them and taking it to the next level.

"It starts on the pitch - nothing is more important than that."



Over the last few days, Liverpool fans all over the world have been on a real rollercoaster of emotions wondering what was going to happen with the deal. As someone so integral to the whole process, what have they been like for you?

"What's it been like for me? The knots are just about starting to ease in my stomach - that might be an apt way of describing it! I've been on edge, like so many of us have been.

"I think when you take a process from the beginning and it has to have a very fast ramp up - it's been a very short turnaround time from looking at taking on a club of this stature and a business project of this magnitude - you don't have time to breathe. You just go and work around the clock.

"Obviously the last final hours were nerve wracking. There were so many things playing out in the media and in the boardroom. I've been in Liverpool the last few days basically wearing out a spot in the carpet in my hotel room with a phone in my ear, the television going and my laptop open, working as hard as I can, but ultimately with a lot of hope and prayer.

"Here and now, it's a new beginning. We start anew and I'm looking forward to moving forward."

When you were in that hotel room and you get the call saying 'it's done', how did you feel? What did you do?

"What I really did? I jumped up, I think put both my hands in the air - I didn't have a scarf! - and looked out the window at the River Mersey. I just said to myself, 'go figure, you've got to be kidding me?' Of course I had a grin from ear to ear."
 
Lets hope he does not get sacked next year 😉

Titanic was built in Belfast although registered at Liverpool for White Star Line though


regards
 
If it had stopped in Liverpool instead of heading straight to Southampton it might have even missed the 'berg 8)
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42275.msg1200631#msg1200631 date=1287478567]
People are missing the original point.
It's the principle of it. In this case it was someone with an opportunity to tell JH what he thought, they were his personal views, but at the same time he was labelled as a fans spokesman.
[/quote]
Who labelled him a fans spokesman? I dont see him referring to himself as that; at best he is a KF spokesman. My undertsanding is that John Henry is talking to many groups and individuals to "get a feel", and this was just one of them who happened to publish his notes. No one fan or group can represent what every fan thinks, and there is no mechanism for democratic election of spokespeople (at the moment), so a survey of a variety of views is the best he can achieve.

As for the fan saying "the majority of fans want ..." well thats just his way of speaking. I heard loads of folks on here saying things like "the majority of fans want Rafa out" or "tha majority of match going fans think Rafa should stay" or whatever individual viewpoint, and attribute it to the fans as a single mass.
 
SO how did Joe Januszewski get tickets for Athens when so many season ticket holders couldnt ? 😉
 
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200680#msg1200680 date=1287482114]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42275.msg1200631#msg1200631 date=1287478567]
People are missing the original point.
It's the principle of it. In this case it was someone with an opportunity to tell JH what he thought, they were his personal views, but at the same time he was labelled as a fans spokesman.
[/quote]
Who labelled him a fans spokesman? I dont see him referring to himself as that; at best he is a KF spokesman. My undertsanding is that John Henry is talking to many groups and individuals to "get a feel", and this was just one of them who happened to publish his notes. No one fan or group can represent what every fan thinks, and there is no mechanism for democratic election of spokespeople (at the moment), so a survey of a variety of views is the best he can achieve.

As for the fan saying "the majority of fans want ..." well thats just his way of speaking. I heard loads of folks on here saying things like "the majority of fans want Rafa out" or "tha majority of match going fans think Rafa should stay" or whatever individual viewpoint, and attribute it to the fans as a single mass.
[/quote]

Which is my point entirely (the bit in bold).
He met with members of supporters groups and "listened to them" presumably they were speaking on behalf of those groups whoever those groups might have been those groups representing fans.
As for that's his way of speaking and advocating his personal view was the majority - he was wrong to do that, we have already established.
I know how these things work Tom, I was a member of the AUEW nearly forty years ago and the TGWU after that for long enough I know how people manage to get themselves in a position of influence when only backed by a very small insignificant minority.

regards
 
I'm guessing from your final comments we may not always see eye to eye politically as I was very much part of a left wing group in Liverpool some 25 years ago that was often accused of being "in a position of influence when only backed by a very small insignificant minority" ... but we'll let sleeping dogs lie 😉
 
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200683#msg1200683 date=1287482470]
SO how did Joe Januszewski get tickets for Athens when so many season ticket holders couldnt ? 😉
[/quote]

Well considering he mentioned "in passing" something to a CEO & was taken seriously I'd guess he's high up senior management at least so has a fair wedge!
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=42275.msg1200655#msg1200655 date=1287480415]
Lets hope he does not get sacked next year 😉

Titanic was built in Belfast although registered at Liverpool for White Star Line though


regards
[/quote]

Yeah noticed that glaring error myself Vlad. Eejit.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42275.msg1200725#msg1200725 date=1287488677]
I wonder if being important and well-connected helped with his search for a ticket?
[/quote]

He may have just been lucky in the ballot :/

regards
 
[quote author=tombrown link=topic=42275.msg1200697#msg1200697 date=1287483835]
I'm guessing from your final comments we may not always see eye to eye politically as I was very much part of a left wing group in Liverpool some 25 years ago that was often accused of being "in a position of influence when only backed by a very small insignificant minority" ... but we'll let sleeping dogs lie 😉
[/quote]

I wouldn't make that assumption Tom, as I said I was a fully paid up member of a union, and still am if it comes to that, but what you raise with Militant Tendency is an even better example of how things can happen in Liverpool 😉

regards
 
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