And he is a Pikey, so will obviously end up selling Plutonium.
the future is bright ....
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it's funny you say that as there was a great chance for a breakaway and he elected to shoot when a pass to his right would have sent bellamy clean through on goal. was funny when bellamy made a 'keep you head up' motion.
Agree with all this. Having said that, I think many of the kinks would be ironed out with regular games. Sure, he's rough around the edges, but he's an intelligent footballer, and I'm pretty sure if he's given the opportunity to play with the likes of Gerrard and Suarez on a regular basis, he'll figure out most of it for himself. A bit of tactical guidance is all he needs (for instance when to release the ball quickly), but I wouldn't want to overload the boy with instructions. If anything, I see him in a roaming role, with very few strings attached.
It didn't, not completely. I've seen similar efforts in games we got nothing out of. It helped of course and so did a little rub of the green.
There was a moment in injury time when we were under the cosh when he won the ball and drilled a super daisy cutter towards the corner flag that demanded our player go after it.
It was a great piece of invention.
Hes got ability and I LOVED how much he wanted the ball and how much he demands to be involved.
It was a great piece of invention.
Hes got ability and I LOVED how much he wanted the ball and how much he demands to be involved.
What I like about Shelvey is that he has the drive and the passion to improve himself. He's also confident about his ability.
He's the type of kid who grew being the best player in his u10 team, school team etc. You see it in the way he plays, always demands the ball, tries to find space and dictate play. I had high hopes when he joined, he hasn't disappointed yet.
He's the type of kid who grew being the best player in his u10 team, school team etc. You see it in the way he plays, always demands the ball, tries to find space and dictate play. I had high hopes when he joined, he hasn't disappointed yet.
Exactly. He's not afraid to try. Something our entire squad has been for months.
I thought all our young players were excellent today, except maybe flanno but he is young and ultimately he will learn.
still think some people are far too eager to bin off johnson, selling johnson would leave us with kelly (who is injury prone) and flanno who very raw.
still think some people are far too eager to bin off johnson, selling johnson would leave us with kelly (who is injury prone) and flanno who very raw.
He will learn. And then he will have learned. And with that ultimately learning will be learn learned.
learn.
And then he'll be taught to be learned and schooled to be educated. Before that he was nurtered to be enlightened.
Fair points Ryan. I don't think he lacks determination, I think he has that in spades, which is why it's bewildering why he hasn't figured sooner. I get the point now re 'headless chicken' though, it kind of reminds me of how Gerrard was initially, although he could do all the spade work, off the ball he often lacked the intelligence and with the ball we know he's always tried to 'do it all'. I do think he needs to learn when to be greedy and when not to be, in the last few games he's done well to carry the ball into a good position, with options either side and chose to shoot instead, but that will come with experience. His play for the 2nd goal was more than encouraging, and against an experienced player I've always had alot of time for in Dunn.
I would say in this instance "patience" should at least mean half way into a second season. If a player comes good at 24 then you're going to get his best years.
I think the game has changed that we clamour for kids to play at the age of 17-19 rather than easing them into the first team at the ages of 21-23 as they did in the past. There were always some exceptions though.
for me to give a young player time is to see flashes of excellence and I've seen that with henderson although the majority of times he has been largly average. I see absolutely no difference in the development of henderson and lucas.
It's not what I'm saying though. Players did their development in the reserves in the past. Now there's that many games and mis-management in the game they're thrown in at the deep end which isn't always fair on them physically and mentally. Look at Wenger and AOC. Fans are clamouring for him but he's protecting him and the moment which is the right thing for me and he's good a pretty good record of developing young talent. Same with Sterling. He's 17 but we're already screaming out for him. Just because we're playing badly doesn't mean we should panic and throw a kid in who shows promise. It should be done when they're both physically and mentally ready. Every player is different though, there's no rules to it.
the truth is liverpool have been spoilt with owen, fowler and gerrard. once in a generation player and we got three in the space of 2 decades, now people expect that type of impact from anyone younger then 21. regardless of what ryan would have you believe, lucas was decidedly average but had good technique and he has matured to the point there in 3 games he games he gave a holding midfielder masterclass.
all it took was game time and patience.
Development of young players is always a tricky one. People understandably want to see a young player come into the side and be amazing instantly. Sometimes that does happen, but more often it doesn't, and generally even those exceptional young players are far from the finished article.
So you either do throw them in and accept that they will make mistakes and look a bit ropey, or give them a few games here and there, maybe send them on loan for a bit, and let them gain experience that way. There is no set rule that works for every player though sadly.
So you either do throw them in and accept that they will make mistakes and look a bit ropey, or give them a few games here and there, maybe send them on loan for a bit, and let them gain experience that way. There is no set rule that works for every player though sadly.
But Owen, Fowler and Gerrard are all good examples Neil. Brought in young due to undeniable talent but did that contribute to the many injury problems all suffered ? I don't know, I'm just suggesting it may contribute.
we got lucky to have such talents like many got lucky with their crop of kids. we certainly shouldn't be EXPECTING talent like that out of the gates, much young players have to have their talent natured. I look at henderson and sometimes his vision is fantastic, there has been a couple of times this season he has completely opened up the opposition with a defense splitting ball but at other times he has struggles but he DOES have a years experience under his belt so the expectation of being at a big club wont be as daunting next season.
it's also worth noting that owen, gerrard and fowler grew up at a club with expectation so didn't have to deal with moving clubs when they were introduced, making their transition from reserves to the first team a little smoother but henderson and carroll have had to deal with all this and the expectation of a big club.
cheers sunny 🙂
what I will say is kenny 'possibly' made too many changes too quickly.
henderson
downing
adam
enrique
signed in the summer all played on the first day of the season
I think Ryan put it quite well. To be honest a lot of my concern about Shelvey goes back to Gerrard and how he has been at Liverpool during his career. When it comes to central midfielders I am a bit conservative and like the central two to stay goalside and demonstrate a certain discipline, rarely getting ahead of the ball. Gerrard is one of the most amazing players we've ever had but I've always thought he was over-rated as a central midfielder - he's basically a wonderful attacking player but best deployed on the right, in an attacking three or behind a lone front man. I always thought that Gerrard was spoiled a little as a young player and not really developed properly if we really wanted him to be a top class central midfielder. He had many of the same attributes you can see now in Shelvey and I worry that Shelvey could just turn into a less effective version of Gerrard, running all over the shop and getting involved but ultimately in the wrong place when we lose the ball. One of the reasons why I like Henderson more than Shelvey is that as a central midfielder he has many of the instincts that I like to see in a central midfielder - he's extremely conservative and conscious of his own position and that of his team mates at all times. Of course, he's a bit too conservative and risk averse but I'd rather teach him to let go a little than have to teach him discipline, as we're going to have to do with Shelvey.
ha ha yeah. Clearly Henderson is that mate you had as a kid who was afraid of everything and wouldn't do anything, wouldn't even leave the street because his Mam told him not to and Shelvey was that mate you sort of had as a kid who would show up now and again, suggest playing in the abandoned chemical factory a few miles away, always and mysteriously showed up with new trainers on and would shit in people's gardens and gob on his chips so he wouldn't have to share them. I remember wanting a friend who was sort of inbetween the two.
The thing is, you appear to be talking about ability on the one hand, and attitude/knowledge/experience on the other. You can coach someone on their positioning, tactical awareness, discipline, whatever, but you cannot teach ability to someone who doesn't have it.
Shelvey has ability, but lacks experience, and displays a degree of tactical naivety (although I thought his discipline in the withdrawn role last night was largely excellent). Henderson has discipline and greater experience, but lacks ability.
I know which one I'd rather work with if I was a coach.
Well, I'll have to disagree with you there Del. I don't see too much between them in terms of ability and I think it's much harder to teach tactical discipline and acumen. I reckon that for some jobs you also need to have a sort of mindset or predisposition and it can't be taught.
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