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The end is nigh

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[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37418.msg998601#msg998601 date=1259163899]
Oncy says some stuff to keep spirits up and based on no more then blind positivity.

It's pretty obvious when he's doing this, and doesn't deserve to be held to scrutiny afterwards.
[/quote]

No, I disagree.

I take detailed notes of every single comment, with context attached, and the relevant dates/ times.

As any fule kno
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37418.msg998496#msg998496 date=1259153652]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37418.msg997866#msg997866 date=1259099562]
How many more games without a win can we go before the manager is sacked?

And yes, I know we won tonight, but it feels about as defeat-like as a victory can.

I'm losing faith as fast as water being sucked down a plughole.
[/quote]

Yes, me too.

I've supported him more often than not, but quite frankly the season is over, as I knew and predicted it would be when it became clear he thought it ws OK to travel to Spurs with Lucarse and Masher as the Central Midfield.

I knew we'd lose that game, and could see a disatrous season unfolding from there.

But it's been far, far worse than even I thought, and I never expected to go out of Europe in a piss-weak group like that.
[/quote]

Its a bit like the recession really. We all knew it was coming and hoped for a soft landing. When it came we soon found out that we hadnt an arse in or trousers. The worrying thing is that like the recession the worst may be yet to come.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37418.msg998314#msg998314 date=1259134966]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998311#msg998311 date=1259133718]
Ryans comical stats mean about as much as Houllier's claim that we were the most attacking team in the league under him based on "statistics" and Rafa's claim that we're not a boring defensive minded team playing dross under him, also based on "statistics".
[/quote]

We haven't played anything like defensive minded dross over the last couple of years under Rafa, especially last year, where we played some beautiful football at times. We've even had little glimmers of good football this year. I doubt Rafa actually addressed the issue of whether we are or are not "a boring defensive minded team" but it is hardly misleading for him to point to the fact that we've enjoyed great goal production, and played good attacking football.

When I think of the team that was involved in playing that football, all but one are still here, we've made a significant improvement at RB and hence seen our best work all season down the right involving exchanges with Johnson, Gerrard, Kuyt and Torres. Riera is a big miss, despite the criticism directed toward him, he is skillful, retains posession, has good movement and makes us a far more balanced prospect in attack. Torres and Gerrard's injuries have been big misses, for reasons that should not require explanation.

We are currently not playing very well at all, is that what you came on here to point out? If so, why overstate the case?

The problem is lack of depth and goal threat up front. Kuyt and Gerrard should have scored in this last game, and the latter on form would have. A left side of Aurelio and Insua isn't part of a balanced team, and neither is a CM partnership of Lucas and Mascherano.

Doc, we get it, you don't like Rafa, you can join a large club of people in that category, however don't go into revisionist history mode.


[/quote]

You're the one trying to revise history mate.

Until February of last season we were a boring defensive team. Then, when it looked like Rafa had thrown away the title, he took the reigns off and we became an attacking team that played some decent football. It was far from "beautiful" though. Arsenal play beautiful football. What we played was nothing like that. We had played dross up until that point. But it's convenient for you to pretend otherwise, so away you go. And yes, he did address the matter.

We have not made a significant improvement at rightback in terms of production. Johnson has produced very little in terms of final ball or goals this season and his arrival has significantly weakened our defense.

Stop trying to use Riera as an excuse, even when he was fit early in the season Rafa wouldn't play him.

We have not played well all season. Since pre-season in fact. And battering two appalling teams does not change that. We have beaten one decent team this season. ONE. Manure at home. And the fans inspired that win. Also, the key to the football we played towards the end of last season was driven from the club and replaced by a talented but always injured Italian who has yet to start a game. FIFTEEN weeks after we were told he would be ready to start in 4-8 weeks.

The lack of depth is Rafa's fault. The team selection is Rafa's fault. And the fact that Steven Gerrard is playing injured and constantly needing painkilling injections, rather than being allowed to heal his injury and come back fit, well that's Rafa's fault as well!!!
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=37418.msg998318#msg998318 date=1259136598]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998311#msg998311 date=1259133718]
We were piss-poor tonight. Horrendous performance against a team currently 6th in the Hungarian League.

That's about the same as being 8th in the scottish league.

We managed one goal against a team that has conceded 13 goals in 3 games against the other teams in the group. And 2 in 2 against us. Pathetic.


Ryans comical stats mean about as much as Houllier's claim that we were the most attacking team in the league under him based on "statistics" and Rafa's claim that we're not a boring defensive minded team playing dross under him, also based on "statistics".
[/quote]

Comical stats? These are facts. FACT.

6th in the Hungarian league is about 8th in the Scottish league? Do elaborate please. You seem to be a profound connoisseur of Hungarian football.
[/quote]

They are statistics which on paper are impressive. In actuality they are not a representation of the truth.

The Hungarian League is about as competitive and high in quality as the Scottish League would be if Rangers and Celtic weren't in it. Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United etc would all be table toppers in Hungary. Debrecen are 6th in Hungary, that's like being 6th in scotland without the old firm, with the old firm it's like being 8th.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=37418.msg998495#msg998495 date=1259153620]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=37418.msg998492#msg998492 date=1259153363]
.
Mourinho is better than Benitez, its quite obvious.

[/quote]

It really hasn't always been 'obvious' in the past.
[/quote]

When Chelski were embarrassing us in league matches it was quite obvious.
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998638#msg998638 date=1259166849]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=37418.msg998318#msg998318 date=1259136598]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998311#msg998311 date=1259133718]
We were piss-poor tonight. Horrendous performance against a team currently 6th in the Hungarian League.

That's about the same as being 8th in the scottish league.

We managed one goal against a team that has conceded 13 goals in 3 games against the other teams in the group. And 2 in 2 against us. Pathetic.


Ryans comical stats mean about as much as Houllier's claim that we were the most attacking team in the league under him based on "statistics" and Rafa's claim that we're not a boring defensive minded team playing dross under him, also based on "statistics".
[/quote]

Comical stats? These are facts. FACT.

6th in the Hungarian league is about 8th in the Scottish league? Do elaborate please. You seem to be a profound connoisseur of Hungarian football.
[/quote]

They are statistics which on paper are impressive. In actuality they are not a representation of the truth.

The Hungarian League is about as competitive and high in quality as the Scottish League would be if Rangers and Celtic weren't in it. Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United etc would all be table toppers in Hungary. Debrecen are 6th in Hungary, that's like being 6th in scotland without the old firm, with the old firm it's like being 8th.
[/quote]

You're talking daft man. Aberdeen lost 8-1 on aggregate to a mid-table Czech team this season. Hearts got stuffed too and Motherwell lost 6-1 to the 3rd placed team in Romania.

The mid-table Scottish teams are on a par with the Irish league. The hungarian league is significantly better.
 
No it's not.

The Hungarian league is very very weak. Far weaker than the scottish league.

I doubt you've ever even watch Hungarian football so you shouldn't comment on what you don't know about.
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998644#msg998644 date=1259167838]
No it's not.

The Hungarian league is very very weak. Far weaker than the scottish league.

I doubt you've ever even watch Hungarian football so you shouldn't comment on what you don't know about.
[/quote]

For fuckssake, all i have to do is check the results the Scottish teams have had in Europe this season to know how weak their league is. Would Debrecen lose 8-1 to Sigma Olumnuc? Of course not Debrecen beat them by 2 or 3 clear goals. Bring back Glock, you're making him look good.
 
Oh yes, clearly a two-legged result in Europe proves that the Scottish league is far weaker than the Hungarian league.

Just like our games against Debrecen show that they are capable of being midtable in the premiership!

You are talking out of your arse.

Scottish League is far stronger than the Hungarian and a couple of results in European competition does not change that.

Watch Hungarian football before you try and comment on it.
 
Has it really come to this?

That we try to console ourselves by saying that the Hungarian league is not so shit?

As for me,I'm going to visit the in-laws tomorrow.

The family full of Mancs.

I actually toyed with the idea of pretending to be too busy to go visit, but that would just upset the missus...and it's not her fault we're shit.

I'm trying to find some consolation for the weekend; but it's been slim pickings.

(Maybe the Scum will drop points)
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998637#msg998637 date=1259166635]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37418.msg998314#msg998314 date=1259134966]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998311#msg998311 date=1259133718]
Ryans comical stats mean about as much as Houllier's claim that we were the most attacking team in the league under him based on "statistics" and Rafa's claim that we're not a boring defensive minded team playing dross under him, also based on "statistics".
[/quote]

We haven't played anything like defensive minded dross over the last couple of years under Rafa, especially last year, where we played some beautiful football at times. We've even had little glimmers of good football this year. I doubt Rafa actually addressed the issue of whether we are or are not "a boring defensive minded team" but it is hardly misleading for him to point to the fact that we've enjoyed great goal production, and played good attacking football.

When I think of the team that was involved in playing that football, all but one are still here, we've made a significant improvement at RB and hence seen our best work all season down the right involving exchanges with Johnson, Gerrard, Kuyt and Torres. Riera is a big miss, despite the criticism directed toward him, he is skillful, retains posession, has good movement and makes us a far more balanced prospect in attack. Torres and Gerrard's injuries have been big misses, for reasons that should not require explanation.

We are currently not playing very well at all, is that what you came on here to point out? If so, why overstate the case?

The problem is lack of depth and goal threat up front. Kuyt and Gerrard should have scored in this last game, and the latter on form would have. A left side of Aurelio and Insua isn't part of a balanced team, and neither is a CM partnership of Lucas and Mascherano.

Doc, we get it, you don't like Rafa, you can join a large club of people in that category, however don't go into revisionist history mode.


[/quote]

You're the one trying to revise history mate.

Until February of last season we were a boring defensive team. Then, when it looked like Rafa had thrown away the title, he took the reigns off and we became an attacking team that played some decent football. It was far from "beautiful" though. Arsenal play beautiful football. What we played was nothing like that. We had played dross up until that point. But it's convenient for you to pretend otherwise, so away you go. And yes, he did address the matter.

We have not made a significant improvement at rightback in terms of production. Johnson has produced very little in terms of final ball or goals this season and his arrival has significantly weakened our defense.

Stop trying to use Riera as an excuse, even when he was fit early in the season Rafa wouldn't play him.

We have not played well all season. Since pre-season in fact. And battering two appalling teams does not change that. We have beaten one decent team this season. ONE. Manure at home. And the fans inspired that win. Also, the key to the football we played towards the end of last season was driven from the club and replaced by a talented but always injured Italian who has yet to start a game. FIFTEEN weeks after we were told he would be ready to start in 4-8 weeks.

The lack of depth is Rafa's fault. The team selection is Rafa's fault. And the fact that Steven Gerrard is playing injured and constantly needing painkilling injections, rather than being allowed to heal his injury and come back fit, well that's Rafa's fault as well!!!
[/quote]

I don't know (or care) if you are Glock or not, but with the exception of the bit about Magic, that is spot on!
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998637#msg998637 date=1259166635]
We have not made a significant improvement at rightback in terms of production. Johnson has produced very little in terms of final ball or goals this season and his arrival has significantly weakened our defense.
[/quote]

That's patently untrue. He has 2 goals and an assist which is an excellent return for a right-back at this stage of the season. In fact, he's looked like our most potent attacking threat in a number of games.

Arbeloa managed 2 goals and 5 assists in 91 appearances for Liverpool which I suspect Glen will surpass in his first season with us. While his introduction may have contributed to our defensive problems at the back this season (strangely enough, I happen to think that he's been one of our better defenders given some of the horror shows dished out by Carra, Skrtel and Insua), to suggest that he hasn't improved our production in attacking terms is completely inaccurate.
 
Insua has one goal and 3 assists this season.

Is he therefore worth 17million as well??


Carragher and Skrtel's poor season's are down to having to do double duty at the back covering for Johnson and being constantly exposed.
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37418.msg998654#msg998654 date=1259169011]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998637#msg998637 date=1259166635]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37418.msg998314#msg998314 date=1259134966]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998311#msg998311 date=1259133718]
Ryans comical stats mean about as much as Houllier's claim that we were the most attacking team in the league under him based on "statistics" and Rafa's claim that we're not a boring defensive minded team playing dross under him, also based on "statistics".
[/quote]

We haven't played anything like defensive minded dross over the last couple of years under Rafa, especially last year, where we played some beautiful football at times. We've even had little glimmers of good football this year. I doubt Rafa actually addressed the issue of whether we are or are not "a boring defensive minded team" but it is hardly misleading for him to point to the fact that we've enjoyed great goal production, and played good attacking football.

When I think of the team that was involved in playing that football, all but one are still here, we've made a significant improvement at RB and hence seen our best work all season down the right involving exchanges with Johnson, Gerrard, Kuyt and Torres. Riera is a big miss, despite the criticism directed toward him, he is skillful, retains posession, has good movement and makes us a far more balanced prospect in attack. Torres and Gerrard's injuries have been big misses, for reasons that should not require explanation.

We are currently not playing very well at all, is that what you came on here to point out? If so, why overstate the case?

The problem is lack of depth and goal threat up front. Kuyt and Gerrard should have scored in this last game, and the latter on form would have. A left side of Aurelio and Insua isn't part of a balanced team, and neither is a CM partnership of Lucas and Mascherano.

Doc, we get it, you don't like Rafa, you can join a large club of people in that category, however don't go into revisionist history mode.


[/quote]

You're the one trying to revise history mate.

Until February of last season we were a boring defensive team. Then, when it looked like Rafa had thrown away the title, he took the reigns off and we became an attacking team that played some decent football. It was far from "beautiful" though. Arsenal play beautiful football. What we played was nothing like that. We had played dross up until that point. But it's convenient for you to pretend otherwise, so away you go. And yes, he did address the matter.

We have not made a significant improvement at rightback in terms of production. Johnson has produced very little in terms of final ball or goals this season and his arrival has significantly weakened our defense.

Stop trying to use Riera as an excuse, even when he was fit early in the season Rafa wouldn't play him.

We have not played well all season. Since pre-season in fact. And battering two appalling teams does not change that. We have beaten one decent team this season. ONE. Manure at home. And the fans inspired that win. Also, the key to the football we played towards the end of last season was driven from the club and replaced by a talented but always injured Italian who has yet to start a game. FIFTEEN weeks after we were told he would be ready to start in 4-8 weeks.

The lack of depth is Rafa's fault. The team selection is Rafa's fault. And the fact that Steven Gerrard is playing injured and constantly needing painkilling injections, rather than being allowed to heal his injury and come back fit, well that's Rafa's fault as well!!!
[/quote]

I don't know (or care) if you are Glock or not, but with the exception of the bit about Magic, that is spot on!
[/quote]

I'm not Glock. Magic??
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=37418.msg998649#msg998649 date=1259168410]

Has it really come to this?

That we try to console ourselves by saying that the Hungarian league is not so shit?

As for me,I'm going to visit the in-laws tomorrow.

The family full of Mancs.

I actually toyed with the idea of pretending to be too busy to go visit, but that would just upset the missus...and it's not her fault we're shit.

I'm trying to find some consolation for the weekend; but it's been slim pickings.

(Maybe the Scum will drop points)
[/quote]

That Manc guy I know e-mailed me earlier today "reminding" me that they're on terrestrial TV tonight. I told him if he didn't wind his neck in I'd publish his e-mail address on here. Strangely enough he's kept schtumm since then.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=37418.msg998649#msg998649 date=1259168410]

Has it really come to this?

That we try to console ourselves by saying that the Hungarian league is not so shit?

As for me,I'm going to visit the in-laws tomorrow.

The family full of Mancs.

I actually toyed with the idea of pretending to be too busy to go visit, but that would just upset the missus...and it's not her fault we're shit.

I'm trying to find some consolation for the weekend; but it's been slim pickings.

(Maybe the Scum will drop points)
[/quote]

Just mention Nemanja Vidic and Fernando Torres in the same sentence a few times. Usually does the trick.
 
First off cuntface, i'm not Glock.

Secondly, i didn't say that at all.

Insua has been widely criticized for being poor this season, despite producing more in attack than Johnson who has been labeled as footballing genius despite being anything but.

Neither have been good enough this season. But at least Insua didn't cost 17million.
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998669#msg998669 date=1259169840]
Oh right. It's true though.

Less production than Insua and poor defensively.
[/quote]

How is it true?

Johnson has 2 goals and 3 assists in 11 appearences, and Insua has 0 goals and 3 assists in 12 appearences. I really don't care if he scored in a milk cup that we aren't even in anymore, I care about the league. Also Johnson is able to beat a man and deliver a quality cross (both of which he did last night even though he was nowhere near match fit), the best Insua manages is 1 good cross in 10 attempts.
 
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37418.msg998683#msg998683 date=1259171116]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998669#msg998669 date=1259169840]
Oh right. It's true though.

Less production than Insua and poor defensively.
[/quote]

How is it true?

Johnson has 2 goals and 3 assists in 11 appearences, and Insua has 0 goals and 3 assists in 12 appearences. I really don't care if he scored in a milk cup that we aren't even in anymore, I care about the league. Also Johnson is able to beat a man and deliver a quality cross (both of which he did last night even though he was nowhere near match fit), the best Insua manages is 1 good cross in 10 attempts.
[/quote]

Glen Johnson has two goals and 1 assist.

Insua has one goal and 3 assists.

A higher percentage of Insua's crosses are met by Liverpool players than Johnson's as well.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37418.msg998678#msg998678 date=1259170389]
Don't call me cuntface Glock, you'll get banned!
[/quote]

I'll call you what i want cuntface.
 
No, I'm not sure you will

Keep it up, though, see what happens

Such a great addition to the site though;a boring lonely, demented old man who lives with his parents, and who we all hated when you were on Koptalk

Welcome back!
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998656#msg998656 date=1259169191]
Insua has one goal and 3 assists this season.

Is he therefore worth 17million as well??


Carragher and Skrtel's poor season's are down to having to do double duty at the back covering for Johnson and being constantly exposed.
[/quote]

Carragher and Skrtel have to take responsibility for their own performances. We've looked incredibly vulnerable from setpieces this season, not least because of massive lapses in concentration from our centre-back. And if anything, it's Insua who has caused the most problems of the two fullbacks. His positioning is horrible to start with and he gets caught up the field far too often. At least Johnson has the pace to get up and down the wing.

Anyway, we're straying from the point. You said Johnson hasn't improved our productivity, which was clearly bollocks.
 
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998684#msg998684 date=1259171349]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37418.msg998683#msg998683 date=1259171116]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37418.msg998669#msg998669 date=1259169840]
Oh right. It's true though.

Less production than Insua and poor defensively.
[/quote]

How is it true?

Johnson has 2 goals and 3 assists in 11 appearences, and Insua has 0 goals and 3 assists in 12 appearences. I really don't care if he scored in a milk cup that we aren't even in anymore, I care about the league. Also Johnson is able to beat a man and deliver a quality cross (both of which he did last night even though he was nowhere near match fit), the best Insua manages is 1 good cross in 10 attempts.
[/quote]

Glen Johnson has two goals and 1 assist.

Insua has one goal and 3 assists.

A higher percentage of Insua's crosses are met by Liverpool players than Johnson's as well.
[/quote]


I can give you half a dozen sites you can go and check (including Barclay's own Premier League site which uses the opta index for it's stats!) and you will see you are wrong.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=37418.msg998692#msg998692 date=1259171905]
Rather than getting stats to back things up, can't we just agree Johnson is good at crossing and Insua is shit at crossing?
[/quote]

Some of us can George, yes.
 
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