Terry

[refugee]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=37035.msg983266#msg983266 date=1257725296]
I'm not saying we should have signed ANelka but we should sign players with a long term view i.e that they will play in the first team or be ever present in the squad in 2-3 years
[/quote]

Very insightful

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=37035.msg983266#msg983266 date=1257725296]
the thing about Chelsea they're motivated and they want it. do our players look like they want it when we're losing to fucking Villa or Spurs? No. we need to rediscover something, especially in defence. we need our top players fit or we need able and motivated stand ins.

Also, Anelka highlights to me the failure of Keane. They paid £15m for him and paid £19m for Keane, one got bombed out and the other is still starting and a good option for them. I'm not saying we should have signed ANelka but we should sign players with a long term view i.e that they will play in the first team or be ever present in the squad in 2-3 years, the signings of Keane, Dossena and to a lesser extent Babel were massive steps back in the last 2 years and contributed nothing to our team. it feels like we need to start over again and we're at least 2 players short. some would also argue we need another defender to solidify the back line so we can be awesome from the get go rather than pathetic and lethargic.
[/quote]

Are you serious?
Babel was signed at a very young age, he was an up and coming international talent, of course he was signed with the intention of him being a regular in the squad, same goes for Dossena and Keane as far as I am concerned, we paid top dollar for both, and it would seem strange that Rafa only brought these kind of players as stopgaps.
Rafa has imo brought players to act as stopgaps in the past (Josemi, KK, Nunez) but the three mentioned above were not.
Plus we should have brought Anelka

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983238#msg983238 date=1257724380]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983210#msg983210 date=1257723223]
Did he play well today, in a game that will have a say in deciding the title?

Did he end up having the ultimate influence on the game by scoring the winner?

That's what Rebel's discussing here, not an overall career retrospective...
[/quote]

His post is alluding to us needing such leadership from one of our defenders in order to win something.

Terry missed a penalty in Moscow when it counted.
Carragher played through cramp when it counted.
[/quote]

His post was pertaining to how a defender stood up and was the difference at a crucial time TODAY.

Carra's brilliance or Terry's failure in years past have nothing to do with TODAY'S performance.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983387#msg983387 date=1257734098]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983238#msg983238 date=1257724380]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983210#msg983210 date=1257723223]
Did he play well today, in a game that will have a say in deciding the title?

Did he end up having the ultimate influence on the game by scoring the winner?

That's what Rebel's discussing here, not an overall career retrospective...
[/quote]

His post is alluding to us needing such leadership from one of our defenders in order to win something.

Terry missed a penalty in Moscow when it counted.
Carragher played through cramp when it counted.
[/quote]

His post was pertaining to how a defender stood up and was the difference at a crucial time TODAY.

Carra's brilliance or Terry's failure in years past have nothing to do with TODAY'S performance.


[/quote]

So we judge players on a game-by-game basis these days do we?

Surely even you can see the irony in accrediting him with leadership skills we apparently lack, when he failed when it was required?

 

[DHSC]

I still wonder how the fuck John Terry was made England captain.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983390#msg983390 date=1257734321]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983387#msg983387 date=1257734098]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983238#msg983238 date=1257724380]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983210#msg983210 date=1257723223]
Did he play well today, in a game that will have a say in deciding the title?

Did he end up having the ultimate influence on the game by scoring the winner?

That's what Rebel's discussing here, not an overall career retrospective...
[/quote]

His post is alluding to us needing such leadership from one of our defenders in order to win something.

Terry missed a penalty in Moscow when it counted.
Carragher played through cramp when it counted.
[/quote]

His post was pertaining to how a defender stood up and was the difference at a crucial time TODAY.

Carra's brilliance or Terry's failure in years past have nothing to do with TODAY'S performance.


[/quote]

So we judge players on a game-by-game basis these days do we?

Surely even you can see the irony in accrediting him with leadership skills we apparently lack, when he failed when it was required?

[/quote]

Jesus Christ Almighty.

This thread was ONLY about his performance TODAY.

Rebel didn't say "He's ALWAYS been exactly the leader a team needs". He said that he was TODAY.

Terry HAS failed in the past, at the most crucial of times, yes. What in the name of all that's holy has that got to do with Rebel's observation that, TODAY, he gave them exactly the type of leadership they needed and we've been lacking recently?

Surely even YOU can see that?

 

[Ryan]

Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.

 

[DHSC]

Gee whiz, Whaddapie has been tetchy the past few days.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=37035.msg983405#msg983405 date=1257735472]
Gee whiz, Whaddapie has been tetchy the past few days.
[/quote]

Hasn't he?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983408#msg983408 date=1257736013]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?
[/quote]

Why are you so angry?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983409#msg983409 date=1257736077]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983408#msg983408 date=1257736013]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?
[/quote]

Why are you so angry?
[/quote]

Why are you so argumentitive?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983410#msg983410 date=1257736258]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983409#msg983409 date=1257736077]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983408#msg983408 date=1257736013]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?
[/quote]

Why are you so angry?
[/quote]

Why are you so argumentitive?
[/quote]

Well I was initially debating with Rebel until you butted in and started arguing. So, you can have that back with bells on top.

And seriously - about half a dozen people have commented today on how you're acting a little bit erm... weird. Dee, Fark, Brendan, myself, DHSC, a few others - maybe for one day the problem isn't me Whaddapie?

Is it cos Brendan made a fool out of you?

Let it go.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Ha ha ha calmed down then Ryan?

Why not just you'll agree to disagree?

For what its worth I think it would nice to see any one of our current defenders do something even remotely close to what Terry did today.

ie win a big game for us. We've only had Sami for that for the best part of a decade.

You are right that Terry bottled it in Moscow but thats beside the point regarding Rebels post.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37035.msg983416#msg983416 date=1257741731]

For what its worth I think it would nice to see any one of our current defenders do something even remotely close to what Terry did today.

[/quote]

Like when Agger did in the Champions League Semi-Final you mean?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983411#msg983411 date=1257736496]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983410#msg983410 date=1257736258]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983409#msg983409 date=1257736077]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983408#msg983408 date=1257736013]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?
[/quote]

Why are you so angry?
[/quote]

Why are you so argumentitive?
[/quote]

Well I was initially debating with Rebel until you butted in and started arguing. So, you can have that back with bells on top.

And seriously - about half a dozen people have commented today on how you're acting a little bit erm... weird. Dee, Fark, Brendan, myself, DHSC, a few others - maybe for one day the problem isn't me Whaddapie?

Is it cos Brendan made a fool out of you?

Let it go.
[/quote]

Brendan made a fool of me..?

Christ, you're as fucking delusional as he is.

You're a bigger waste of time than Twitter.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983421#msg983421 date=1257742399]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983411#msg983411 date=1257736496]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983410#msg983410 date=1257736258]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983409#msg983409 date=1257736077]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37035.msg983408#msg983408 date=1257736013]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983403#msg983403 date=1257735331]
Firstly: Rebel never once use the word "today" in lower case or fucking capitals in his original post, so give it a rest.

Secondly; what you're effectively saying is that it's fine to judge other team's players against ours on the basis of one game.

'Tell you what, we could definitely do with someone like Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. See how he stood up today when it counted? THAT's what we need'.
[/quote]

Firstly: You know fucking well that he was talking about today's match, just like everybody else on the fucking planet did, as they read that post.

Secondly: What I'm actually saying is that it's fine to judge a player's performance in today's game on the basis of that one game. And that yes, it possible for a player's performance in one game can be used as an example of what another team is missing...

"Tell you what, if our central defenders started this season the way John Terry played today, we'd be a lot better off..."

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Rebel posted. Why are you arguing this?
[/quote]

Why are you so angry?
[/quote]

Why are you so argumentitive?
[/quote]

Well I was initially debating with Rebel until you butted in and started arguing. So, you can have that back with bells on top.

And seriously - about half a dozen people have commented today on how you're acting a little bit erm... weird. Dee, Fark, Brendan, myself, DHSC, a few others - maybe for one day the problem isn't me Whaddapie?

Is it cos Brendan made a fool out of you?

Let it go.
[/quote]

Brendan made a fool of me..?

Christ, you're as fucking delusional as he is.

You're a bigger waste of time than Twitter.
[/quote]

If this, and your continued expletive-filled rants during this thread, doesn't contravene the new Forum posting rules then nothing does.

You've contravened Principle 1 + 2 by my reckoning, but you're a Mod, and attacking me so I doubt this will resuly in anything.

 

[Farkmaster]

I thought that when that cheat Carvalho left, Terry would have some difficulty, and even the gushing English media would have to have a more realistic appraisal. Unfortunately Carvalho leaving didn't happen, and even when he didn't play much last season, Terry was fine. It was probably mostly motivated by the most honourable types of hatred that dwell deep inside me, though I really do rate Carvalho.

He still consistently performs in his defensive duty, and while his goal glut is long gone, as Ryan pointed out, that's not really essential. Not even the most blinkered Liverpool fans have over the last couple years attempted to argue Carragher v Terry anymore, unfortunately with good reason.

Anyway, with a world cup coming up, Terry's influence on every game is going to be exaggerated even more than it already was, so get used to it.

With regard to wanting our central defenders to do similar, as has already been stated, that's the least of their obligation to improve. Their recent deficiency is also exaggerated by our inability to play the ball forward or hold the ball due to our midfield.

 

[Ryan]

Carvalho hasn't left Fark, or am I missing something?

 

[RolandG]

Terry is a horrible and absolute cunt! We have Carra! Our defence surely needs to improve and prevent teams from scoring. We have Gerrard, Torres and Yossi to poke in goals for us.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37035.msg983425#msg983425 date=1257743809]
Carvalho hasn't left Fark, or am I missing something?
[/quote]

No, my post doesn't make sense. I meant when it appeared Carvalho was on his way out last season, I was thinking it would highlight Terry's weaknesses, but neither thing happened.

I'm half watching tv and falling asleep. The cleveland show is possibly the worst "comedy" cartoon I've ever seen.