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Superstars: 2000-2010

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[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41989.msg1179305#msg1179305 date=1285088475]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41989.msg1179284#msg1179284 date=1285087765]
Zidane wasn't overrated in the slightest. He wasn't a footballer for a statistician - his numbers were never great, leading Ferguson to say he never 'directly hurt teams', but that shouldn't matter; Xabi Alonso's assists stats were never outstanding, but we all knew he was the best passer of the ball in Europe.
[/quote]

Did we? He was a very good passer and a brilliant midfielder but the best passer in Europe?
[/quote]

There is a bit of exaggeration involved there because we experienced what the loss of Alonso meant to us. But i guess that was more due to replacing him with a dunce like Aquilani. If, for example, we had bought someone more effective like Meireles, we wouldn't have felt Alonso's loss as acutely.

He was a great player but falls well short of world-class.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41989.msg1179305#msg1179305 date=1285088475]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41989.msg1179284#msg1179284 date=1285087765]
Zidane wasn't overrated in the slightest. He wasn't a footballer for a statistician - his numbers were never great, leading Ferguson to say he never 'directly hurt teams', but that shouldn't matter; Xabi Alonso's assists stats were never outstanding, but we all knew he was the best passer of the ball in Europe.
[/quote]

Did we? He was a very good passer and a brilliant midfielder but the best passer in Europe?
[/quote]

In form, I'd say so.

Fabregas would run him very close.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179315#msg1179315 date=1285088839]
I'd rather have Gerrard in my team than Zidane. There, I said it.

He was undoubtedly one of the most technically gifted players of this generation, but he has been heralded a lot more than he deserves IMO. I think he was a bit of an imposter and OFTEN went missing while playing for both club and country. Wasn't always involved and had a poor work rate. Put him on a stage, however, and he would deliver the finest performance you'd see.



[/quote]

I think he was man of the tournament in two worldcups...It doesn't get bigger than that.
 
Quite, he also won a World Cup and a European Cup, and a Champions League, and countless league titles.
 
To me the word superstar evokes fame and if you're using that criteria you would obviously look at attacking players because they get all the glory and fame. You could argue that Robinho is a superstar of the game because he is a genuine household name, particularly in some parts of the world, but you wouldn't call him world class.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41989.msg1179323#msg1179323 date=1285089166]
Where's Sir Ryan (both of them)?
[/quote]

They're in a different league to these peasants mentioned here
 
Actually, he won the Golden Ball only in 2006. Thuram won it in 1998. And I did say that he was fucking superb everytime he played on a stage.

And I don't dispute what all he's won. Every team he's been on, however, has been kickass. I don't recall him being the 'man' one any one of those teams (not sure about Juve), but he the Real team and the French team was studded with some of the finest players of our generation. As regards him stamping his style of play, a lot of that has been media generated bullshit. He had a poor workrate, and did go missing in games if you saw him play regularly in the league. And I'll maintain that.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41989.msg1179322#msg1179322 date=1285089151]
To me the word superstar evokes fame and if you're using that criteria you would obviously look at attacking players because they get all the glory and fame. You could argue that Robinho is a superstar of the game because he is a genuine household name, particularly in some parts of the world, but you wouldn't call him world class.

[/quote]

Then t-shirt sales should be the only relevant statistic we use.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41989.msg1179276#msg1179276 date=1285087161]

Lampard has a phenomenal scoring record for club. But i still hesitate to call him world class player because he did not show it in the world stage. Especially when you consider that Steven Gerrard has always had to play out of position to enable Lampard play his usual role, you would expect a bit more from a world class player. Fowler did not have a great international career and for this reason many neutral fans don't consider him world class - why should Lampard be any different?

[/quote]

I sort of get what you're saying and I've always felt that myself. But Lampard has had four, and I repeat, four 20 goal, 15 assist seasons! The rest of the players have had just had either two or one such season. That's insane and it's very difficult to argue against such stats.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41989.msg1179316#msg1179316 date=1285088899]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41989.msg1179305#msg1179305 date=1285088475]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41989.msg1179284#msg1179284 date=1285087765]
Zidane wasn't overrated in the slightest. He wasn't a footballer for a statistician - his numbers were never great, leading Ferguson to say he never 'directly hurt teams', but that shouldn't matter; Xabi Alonso's assists stats were never outstanding, but we all knew he was the best passer of the ball in Europe.
[/quote]

Did we? He was a very good passer and a brilliant midfielder but the best passer in Europe?
[/quote]

There is a bit of exaggeration involved there because we experienced what the loss of Alonso meant to us. But i guess that was more due to replacing him with a dunce like Aquilani. If, for example, we had bought someone more effective like Meireles, we wouldn't have felt Alonso's loss as acutely.

He was a great player but falls well short of world-class.
[/quote]


i think alonso's definitely world class. i know everyone has their own idea of what that means but to me it seems obvious that the clue's in the name - world class. so for me a player's world class if he can consistently excel at the highest levels of international football - world cups, european championships, champions league.

alonso does so, and is therefore world class. pretty much the whole of that spain side who won the world cup was world class imo, plus the likes of reina and fabregas on the bench.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179350#msg1179350 date=1285090040]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41989.msg1179276#msg1179276 date=1285087161]

Lampard has a phenomenal scoring record for club. But i still hesitate to call him world class player because he did not show it in the world stage. Especially when you consider that Steven Gerrard has always had to play out of position to enable Lampard play his usual role, you would expect a bit more from a world class player. Fowler did not have a great international career and for this reason many neutral fans don't consider him world class - why should Lampard be any different?

[/quote]

I sort of get what you're saying and I've always felt that myself. But Lampard has had four, and I repeat, four 20 goal, 15 assist seasons! The rest of the players have had just had either two or one such season. That's insane and it's very difficult to argue against such stats.
[/quote]

Also, to slightly counter your point (and for the record lampard is a fantastic player), you are only as good as the team around you, and Lampard has played with some amazing players in recent years, most likely in those 4 years where he did these stats.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41989.msg1179283#msg1179283 date=1285087699]
Zidane is the best player i've watched
[/quote]

Indeed, bit like watching Cheyrou of course
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41989.msg1179349#msg1179349 date=1285089995]
Which would make things a lot easier to agree on.

Who's got the sales figures?
[/quote]

Are you ready to see David Beckham at the top of the chart?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41989.msg1179358#msg1179358 date=1285090429]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41989.msg1179349#msg1179349 date=1285089995]
Which would make things a lot easier to agree on.

Who's got the sales figures?
[/quote]

Are you ready to see David Beckham at the top of the chart?
[/quote]

Well, he is a 'superstar'. He lives in L.A and has celebrity friends.

Who comes second?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41989.msg1179361#msg1179361 date=1285090527]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41989.msg1179358#msg1179358 date=1285090429]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41989.msg1179349#msg1179349 date=1285089995]
Which would make things a lot easier to agree on.

Who's got the sales figures?
[/quote]

Are you ready to see David Beckham at the top of the chart?
[/quote]

Well, he is a 'superstar'. He lives in L.A and has celebrity friends.

Who comes second?
[/quote]

That would be Ronaldinho.

Followed by R9 - Ronaldo.

I read it on an article about image rights managed by Real Madrid. So i'm not sure how accurate this is, as i'm recollecting it from memory.

Here is a list based on earnings(wages + image rights) paid.

http://footballtrack.com/top-ten-highest-paid-soccer-football-players-in-the-world/

3 of the players in this list will not meet the criteria mentioned in the first post.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179384#msg1179384 date=1285091483]
Um, he retired from top class football in 2003.
[/quote]

And your point is?
 
What about players from Bundesliga, French League, Brazilian league, Argentinian League etc?? What rubbish is this???

I think you better concentrate in creating a thread about Michael Jackson etc. Bloody hell!
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179755#msg1179755 date=1285141570]
2000-2010
[/quote]

So Berbatov has to be on that list and Batistuta has not?

Fuck that.

*slams door*
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179182#msg1179182 date=1285082251]
Who qualifies as a superstar or a genuine world class player? Far often these terms are used too loosely these days.

What would your definition be? For me, a superstar would necessarily have to be an attacking player. With due respect to midfielders and defenders, the game’s eventually about scoring more goals and so I think a superstar is one who both scores and creates goals consistently against quality opposition. Also, to separate them from the rest, they must be players who’ve demonstrated the ability to lead the attack of one team singlehandedly in at least one season.

[/quote]

I don't agree with that. Are you saying that these players weren't "superstars"?:

Roberto Carlos
Graeme Souness
Dino Zoff
Ray Clemence
Alan Hansen

Clearly the attacking, goal-scoring, goal-creating talents are more often likely to be "superstars", they are after all the most important and aesthetically lovely players on the pitch, but not exclusively.
 
You could ad the likes of Schmeichel and Cannavaro to that list as well.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41989.msg1179845#msg1179845 date=1285151709]
You could ad the likes of Schmeichel and Cannavaro to that list as well.
[/quote]

And Mattheus. And Maldini. And Beckenbauer. And loads of other players.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=41989.msg1179769#msg1179769 date=1285142503]
What about players from Bundesliga, French League, Brazilian league, Argentinian League etc?? What rubbish is this???

I think you better concentrate in creating a thread about Michael Jackson etc. Bloody hell!
[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure Huntelaar and Ribery and Remy qualify as superstars.

Please, the EPL, La Liga and Serie A are acknowledged as the best leagues in the world, and for a reason.

You could make a case for the South American many years ago when the they retained their top talent, but it's stupid to say that anyone outside of the EPL, La Liga or Serie A could qualify as a superstar today.
 
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=41989.msg1179835#msg1179835 date=1285150026]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179755#msg1179755 date=1285141570]
2000-2010
[/quote]

So Berbatov has to be on that list and Batistuta has not?

Fuck that.

*slams door*
[/quote]

I'm sorry but you're not making much sense.
 
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