Superstars: 2000-2010

[dmishra]

Who qualifies as a superstar or a genuine world class player? Far often these terms are used too loosely these days.

What would your definition be? For me, a superstar would necessarily have to be an attacking player. With due respect to midfielders and defenders, the game’s eventually about scoring more goals and so I think a superstar is one who both scores and creates goals consistently against quality opposition. Also, to separate them from the rest, they must be players who’ve demonstrated the ability to lead the attack of one team singlehandedly in at least one season.

So, I’ve come up with these criteria for identifying the superstars of this past decade.
1. Longevity (Must have been active for at least the majority of the decade i.e. at least 6 years in one of the top 3 leagues i.e. England/Spain/Italy)
2. Consistency (Must have scored at least 50 goals and had 30 assists in that time)
3. Brilliance (Must have had had at least one season with 20 goals and 15 assists)

The only players who meet these criteria:

Henry
Ronaldo
Messi
Gerrard
Lampard
Ronaldinho
Totti
Villa

Any surprises? Also, do you think this is useful in separating the likes of Kaka, Robben, Ribery, Drogba, Torres etc. from the above and helping lay rest to claims by people that someone like Lampard is just an ordinary player?

 

[HC]

I agree with all of them bar Totti

 

[Fabio]

Totti IS world class.

Rooney must be there

 

[dmishra]

Rooney hasn't had a 20 goal, 15 assist season.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179222#msg1179222 date=1285085275]
Rooney hasn't had a 20 goal, 15 assist season.
[/quote]

Did he not come near last season with his 34 goals? I don't know his assists but surely in one of his seasons he's managed something like that.
Also, to exclude someone with as much genuine talent as rooney because he doesn't comply with this criteria is harsh to the extreme. He IS world class and will continue to be

 

[dmishra]

I'm just putting the stats as they are. Rooney's actually come very close with 13 assists in one season and has excellent assist stats all over. Maybe you could revise the criteria a bit. If you do, however, you'll find a whole range of other players coming in as well.

 

[dmishra]

I also seem to have missed one player, and this should surprise a few - Berbatov.

 

[Atlas]

Ronaldinho and Totti should not be on that list.

Ziziou should be on there, at the top of the list.

 

[Atlas]

Also Ribery should not be on the list anywhere, not even as a 'nearly' world class

 

[dmishra]

Except this is for the last decade and Zidane was active only for 6 years and didn't have very inspiring stats, either in terms of goalscoring or assists.

It's also another thing that I think Zidane was a good deal overrated but that's a separate discussion.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=41989.msg1179241#msg1179241 date=1285085950]
Also Ribery should not be on the list anywhere, not even as a 'nearly' world class
[/quote]

I looked up Ribery's stats and you'd be surprised to know that he met ALL the criteria. The only reason I didn't include him because he's played in the Bundesliga and Ligue 1, which I'm deeming not good enough to meet the 'quality opposition' stipulation.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179236#msg1179236 date=1285085687]
I'm just putting the stats as they are. Rooney's actually come very close with 13 assists in one season and has excellent assist stats all over. Maybe you could revise the criteria a bit. If you do, however, you'll find a whole range of other players coming in as well.
[/quote]

Fair enough, i can't complain about the criteria because i can't be bothered to fix it!

Also, re: berbatov, he can't be included surely? He hasn't been in the prem 6 years has he? and he's only been in the german league before that

 

[dmishra]

Well, yes, you are technically correct. This is Berbatov's 5th season in the EPL. He has, however, met the criteria in his 4 years in the EPL already! That's pretty incredible.

 

[DHSC]

I dont think you're being fair to players in other positions dmirsha. I know football's about scoring more than the opposition, but you need to stop them too.

How about:

Casillas
Mascherano
Reina
Xavi
Iniesta
Cannavaro
Nesta
Zambrotta
Lahm
Essien
Ashley Cole

I think most of them should qualify as genuine world class players too.

 

[dmishra]

Well, actually I meant more 'superstar' than world class. The players I've listed would certainly be worth more to a team than any of the players you've listed no matter how good they are.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179253#msg1179253 date=1285086538]
Well, yes, you are technically correct. This is Berbatov's 5th season in the EPL. He has, however, met the criteria in his 4 years in the EPL already! That's pretty incredible.
[/quote]

TBF it is incredible, i thought he had been average for the mancs in recent years and finally kicked on this year, but if the stats tell a different sotry i can't complain. I just cannot compare him to the messi, the ronaldo etc. He isn't i nthe same class even if he is a very good forward

And re: players in other positions, Alonso was worth more to us than other players, hence our rapid and dramatic decline. The likes of berbatov rely on that kind of support play and without them we would see a stark decline in goals/assists

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=41989.msg1179240#msg1179240 date=1285085856]
Ronaldinho and Totti should not be on that list.

[/quote]

How can Ronaldinho not be there? You could argue for him to be the top on the list! World player of the year twice and lead Barcelona to two La Liga titles and one CL.

I'd never rated Totti myself but you can hardly argue with someone who's been productive enough to meet the criteria listed.

 

[kingjulian]

Casillas
Buffon
Xavi
Pirlo
Zanetti
A. Cole
Rio Ferdinand
Cannavaro
Maldini

have all been world class players who played great football - not having non-goalscoring players in this list is a bit stupid.

You can't include Messi who has only been around for the later half of the decade and then exclude players like Torres and Rooney.


Lampard has a phenomenal scoring record for club. But i still hesitate to call him world class player because he did not show it in the world stage. Especially when you consider that Steven Gerrard has always had to play out of position to enable Lampard play his usual role, you would expect a bit more from a world class player. Fowler did not have a great international career and for this reason many neutral fans don't consider him world class - why should Lampard be any different?

 

[Mistadobalina]

Zidane was not a good deal overrated. Stats can't show the style a player can inject into a side. Zidane was poetry in motion.

 

[Fabio]

Zidane is the best player i've watched

 

[Squiggles]

Zidane wasn't overrated in the slightest. He wasn't a footballer for a statistician - his numbers were never great, leading Ferguson to say he never 'directly hurt teams', but that shouldn't matter; Xabi Alonso's assists stats were never outstanding, but we all knew he was the best passer of the ball in Europe. He made a team 'tick', and although Zidane applied his trade higher the pitch, the same can also be said of him.

Zidane is quite comfortably one of the finest players to play the game and isn't just worthy on a list of 'Superstars', he demands to be on it.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=41989.msg1179281#msg1179281 date=1285087623]
Zidane was not a good deal overrated. Stats can't show the style a player can inject into a side. Zidane was poetry in motion.
[/quote]

Yep football is not played on paper.


Players like Zidane and Iniesta are a joy to watch, and they are very hard to play against. Probably the hardest.

 

[Fabio]

Incidentally, according to stats, lucas was our best passer last year and the leagues 7th best tackler

 

[Markeh]

sorry but maldini, cafu etc are superstars. i thought it just meant really good at what they do, well known and successful?

just say attacking superstars otherwise its a bit unfair to some really really good players

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41989.msg1179267#msg1179267 date=1285086844]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179253#msg1179253 date=1285086538]
Well, yes, you are technically correct. This is Berbatov's 5th season in the EPL. He has, however, met the criteria in his 4 years in the EPL already! That's pretty incredible.
[/quote]

TBF it is incredible, i thought he had been average for the mancs in recent years and finally kicked on this year, but if the stats tell a different sotry i can't complain. I just cannot compare him to the messi, the ronaldo etc. He isn't i nthe same class even if he is a very good forward

And re: players in other positions, Alonso was worth more to us than other players, hence our rapid and dramatic decline. The likes of berbatov rely on that kind of support play and without them we would see a stark decline in goals/assists
[/quote]


I don't disagree with you as regards Berbatov. I was surprised to find him figure here and I'd initially ignored him.

As regards the point about Alsono, he's possibly my favourite ever LFC player and I'd have him here back at Liverpool anyday before Berbatov. However, it's difficult to argue with Alonso being a superstar. While players like Alonso maybe world class, they go on to simply make a good team. Superstars are generally the difference makers. Look at the league winners in the EPL in the last 10 years. Chelsea (Lampard), Arsenal (Henry) and the Mancs (Ronaldo). Not easy to win a title without such a player in your midst.
Not so true for La Liga or Serie A, where stats suggest you need a more complete all round team rather than one brilliant player. So maybe your point has some merit there.

 

[Squiggles]

Figo

 

[Squiggles]

Viera

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179298#msg1179298 date=1285088274]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=41989.msg1179267#msg1179267 date=1285086844]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41989.msg1179253#msg1179253 date=1285086538]
Well, yes, you are technically correct. This is Berbatov's 5th season in the EPL. He has, however, met the criteria in his 4 years in the EPL already! That's pretty incredible.
[/quote]

TBF it is incredible, i thought he had been average for the mancs in recent years and finally kicked on this year, but if the stats tell a different sotry i can't complain. I just cannot compare him to the messi, the ronaldo etc. He isn't i nthe same class even if he is a very good forward

And re: players in other positions, Alonso was worth more to us than other players, hence our rapid and dramatic decline. The likes of berbatov rely on that kind of support play and without them we would see a stark decline in goals/assists
[/quote]


I don't disagree with you as regards Berbatov. I was surprised to find him figure here and I'd initially ignored him.

As regards the point about Alsono, he's possibly my favourite ever LFC player and I'd have him here back at Liverpool anyday before Berbatov. However, it's difficult to argue with Alonso being a superstar. While players like Alonso maybe world class, they go on to simply make a good team. Superstars are generally the difference makers. Look at the league winners in the EPL in the last 10 years. Chelsea (Lampard), Arsenal (Henry) and the Mancs (Ronaldo). Not easy to win a title without such a player in your midst.
Not so true for La Liga or Serie A, where stats suggest you need a more complete all round team rather than one brilliant player. So maybe your point has some merit there.


[/quote]

I can agree with that.

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41989.msg1179284#msg1179284 date=1285087765]
Zidane wasn't overrated in the slightest. He wasn't a footballer for a statistician - his numbers were never great, leading Ferguson to say he never 'directly hurt teams', but that shouldn't matter; Xabi Alonso's assists stats were never outstanding, but we all knew he was the best passer of the ball in Europe.
[/quote]

Did we? He was a very good passer and a brilliant midfielder but the best passer in Europe?

 

[dmishra]

I'd rather have Gerrard in my team than Zidane. There, I said it.

He was undoubtedly one of the most technically gifted players of this generation, but he has been heralded a lot more than he deserves IMO. I think he was a bit of an imposter and OFTEN went missing while playing for both club and country. Wasn't always involved and had a poor work rate. Put him on a stage, however, and he would deliver the finest performance you'd see.