I didn't say he was the best player I'd ever seen. Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho and many others are all better.
You say he's not in the 'top' 5 strikers in the club's history. I can only assume that's your opinion. In my opinion he's the best, so long as Dalglish isn't considered a striker. If he is, then he's the second best.
All those stats you've produced I find unpersuasive. Torres clearly isn't the same player now that he was at Liverpool and Atletico Madrid, I wouldn't deny that. That doesn't mean all those years prior to injuries taking their toll was merely 'good form'. That's a laughable claim. For an explanation as to why he wasn't so formidable before 2007 as he was until 2010 I think there are many possible reasons. Youth, playing for a club frequently in flux, and the pressure of being the captain and great white hope of one's boyhood club at such a young age, are all good, plausible factors. It's hard to say for sure because I never saw him play during that time. What is undeniable is that he was identified form the earliest stages as a player of rare class, which is clear from him frequently being linked with big money moves to the continent's biggest clubs from a very young age.
The logic of your argument would extend to a player like Ronaldinho. Was his relatively short golden period between 2003 and 2007 also merely 'good form'? Or are there other reasons?
Are you REALLY saying that Torres is better than a Rush? a Fowler? a Owen? Seriously?
One of the first things I said when Torres signed for us was that he was NOT a pure goalscorer, and that he'd struggled to lead the team (look at what Aguero did when he left). He was phenomenal for 3 years - one of the best in the world for that period no doubt. However, he's never COME CLOSE to that kind of play in Madrid or Chelsea, and never will. Now you can bring up whatever excuses you want, but he's only ever dominated for those 3 years when we played through him and maximized his potential beautifully ... This imo highlights why he's always struggled with Spain (example: when they're not playing a 4-5-1 ...
or why Del Bosque went with a 4-6-0 (or Negredo) in most games when they won Europe this past year
... or his best games when they won Europe 4 years ago were when Villa wasn't playing) ... That his goals per season don't persuade is because they don't back up your arguement ...
"Torres clearly isn't the same player now that he was at Liverpool and Atletico Madrid" -- odd, a co-worker (born and bred Atleti fan for 50 years now) told me we were getting a player who disappears often in games, and though he's capable of magic, would struggle to adapt unless the team played through him. This was before we signed him. So again, we got the best Torres would ever get to. That only backs what I'm saying ...
"What is undeniable is that he was identified form the earliest stages as a player of rare class" -- this kind of sentence makes me laugh. Many many players have dealt with this, and have succeeded their
whole career (Messi, Ronaldo etc) and many haven't (Samba, Kerlon, Robinho etc).
As for your Ronaldinho example - it's a rather poor based on the fact he had a hand in 50+ goals for Milan in his first two years there (2008-2010) and was pretty damn good in Brazil too. However, I do believe he peaked far too early and that's why despite those stats, he was never as dominating there as he was with Barcelona (where he was the best player in the world). Considering what he's doing today (albeit in an average, yet improving, league), he's still producing at a decent level (which Torres isn't sadly as he's struggling to even hit 10 league goals with one of the best teams in the country). I don't think he's one of the best ever - though for that short time period (like with Torres), he was playing at a level that was out of this world.
