• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Stats the way to quash all this nonsense about Liverpool FC striker Andy Carroll

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vlads Quiff

Well-Known
Member
ACCORDING to a couple of high profile managers this week, Liverpool FC's Luis Suarez is a workaholic who craves hard graft, Andy Carroll is another kind of holic who simply craves the hard stuff.

That’s the perception. But what’s the reality?

Using statistical input from the remarkably precise EA Sports Player Performance Index . . . somewhat surprising.

Suarez tracks back, chases lost causes, closes down defenders and sweats blood in the pursuit of Anfield excellence. Such is his dedication he has run a lung-bursting 109.6 metres every minute of every match so far this season.

Carroll, on the other hand, lumbers around, loiters for crosses, occasionally breaks into a sweat. Oh, and covers 108 metres every minute of a match.

That’s right. Given his long legs, just one stride less than his non-stop teammate, or a difference so slight as to be barely noticeable.

Clearly Carroll has a little previous to be taken into account, but since moving to Liverpool the most outrageous off-field antics he’s been involved in was attending a Boyzone concert – and failing to buy his boss a pint.

On the pitch, Carroll has actually managed more attempts on goal than Suarez and managed more on target.

The campaign may still be in its infancy and the stats open to early season interpretation, and Suarez has scored more goals, but people seem to be underestimating Carroll’s contributions.

Not inside Anfield, of course.

Kenny Dalglish dismissed Fabio Capello’s press conference comments this week – and suggested the journalists pushing the England coach for a soundbite were more mischievous than the Italian had meant to be.

He has a point.

So, too, does the EA Sports Performance Index.

Stewart Downing has been the most eye-catching Anfield arrival so far this season. But he hasn’t been the most effective.

The highest placed Liverpool player on the Index is Charlie Adam.

And Jordan Henderson is next.

The Index analyses players’ performances and gives points for positive influences on a match – such as shots, tackles, clearances, saves etc. – and takes points away for negative actions, such as shots off-target, yellow and red cards.

Adam currently lies 11th in the overall Premier League table – and in terms of midfielders, only Ashley Young, David Silva and Anderson have proved more productive this season.

The Scot has scored one goal, created two more, hit the target with 62.5% of all his shots and has won 83.3% of all the tackles he has entered in to this season, as well as making three clearances.

He has also covered more distance than any other Liverpool player in each of his three games. Against Bolton, Adam covered an incredible 13,515m – almost eight-and-a-half miles – including a massive 7042m in the first-half alone!

There are lies, damned lies – and statistics. But the biggest lies being perpetrated so far this season seem to surround the Liverpool number nine.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-columnists/2011/09/09/david-prentice-stats-the-way-to-quash-all-this-nonsense-about-liverpool-fc-striker-andy-carroll-100252-29390176/2/#ixzz1XUm1MNAn


Well that's not bad for a lazy piss head and a fat Jock is it?




regards
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46814.msg1396590#msg1396590 date=1315606191]
I love Charlie Adam. There, I said it.
[/quote]

i'm on that boat too.
 
Isn't Charlie Adam suppossed to be a Fat, Unfit, Rangers Reject from Dundee with a boring name?

Nah, the lad is a hard working and quality footballer who has loads to offer.
 
Charlie Adam is a big "kentucky fried chicken eating" mofo.
I hate him with a passion.
If I had to choose between him and Ebola I'd choose the virus.
I hate him.
I hate his fat arse.
I hate the gap between his teeth.
I hate his receding hairline.
I hate his Hollywood balls.
And I especially hate the fact that he's Scottish.







Nah, he's OK.
 
I was almost convinced until I read that Henderson has been more influential than Downing and then I realised that as always these stats are largely meaningless and you can read far too much into them. The one about Carroll is highly misleading, why is it average distance covered per minute, if he plays 10 minutes and covers the ground its hardly the same as a guy who is covering every blade of grass for the full 90 minutes, but the averages would be similar. Why not post his kilometres covered like they did with Adam (that was pleasantly surprising) if hes been so hardworking?
 
If Carrol covers 100m per minute for 10 minutes and Suarez covers 100m per minute for 90 minutes then they have the same average but can hardly be comared in terms of the amount of ground covered. Its easier to work hard for a short space of time then it is for 90 minutes, thats where the fitness and application tells. So the average in itself doesnt give you a true picture because there is no context of minutes played, by contrast the stats for Adam tell you something meaningful
 
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=46814.msg1396612#msg1396612 date=1315615459]
If Carrol covers 100m per minute for 10 minutes and Suarez covers 100m per minute for 90 minutes then they have the same average but can hardly be comared in terms of the amount of ground covered. Its easier to work hard for a short space of time then it is for 90 minutes, thats where the fitness and application tells. So the average in itself doesnt give you a true picture because there is no context of minutes played, by contrast the stats for Adam tell you something meaningful
[/quote]

My first thought too ..... if he is coming on and just playing a few minutes, or coming off early, then it's possible, probable even, that his average is going to be significantly higher than if he stayed on for the whole 90 mins. You know what they say about stats ...... sometimes they can be rather misleading !
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46814.msg1396618#msg1396618 date=1315620005]
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=46814.msg1396612#msg1396612 date=1315615459]
If Carrol covers 100m per minute for 10 minutes and Suarez covers 100m per minute for 90 minutes then they have the same average but can hardly be comared in terms of the amount of ground covered. Its easier to work hard for a short space of time then it is for 90 minutes, thats where the fitness and application tells. So the average in itself doesnt give you a true picture because there is no context of minutes played, by contrast the stats for Adam tell you something meaningful
[/quote]

My first thought too ..... if he is coming on and just playing a few minutes, or coming off early, then it's possible, probable even, that his average is going to be significantly higher than if he stayed on for the whole 90 mins. You know what they say about stats ...... sometimes they can be rather misleading !
[/quote]. Yes, yes,yes. There are lies Damn lies and statistics. It's funny that people take the ones they like and dies the ones they don't . No matter what way you dress this up it shows that Carroll has contributed far more than people want to give him credit for.

Regards
 
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46814.msg1396694#msg1396694 date=1315647061]
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
[/quote]
I agree with you on his age aspect, 22 is still very young.
 
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=46814.msg1396699#msg1396699 date=1315647741]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46814.msg1396694#msg1396694 date=1315647061]
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
[/quote]
I agree with you on his age aspect, 22 is still very young.
[/quote]

Fowler was scoring 20 goals per season before he was 22. Messi, C.Ronaldo, Fat Ronaldo etc.
Owen didn't become any wiser after 22 either, I think.
I agree, he's still young but he should be contributing more. I'm not worried at all...yet.
We've only played three games in the PL.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46814.msg1396599#msg1396599 date=1315611904]
Isn't Charlie Adam suppossed to be a Fat, Unfit, Rangers Reject from Dundee with a boring name?

Nah, the lad is a hard working and quality footballer who has loads to offer.
[/quote]

The turning point was Blackpool taking Andy Reid on loan last January....Adam could probably see from him that the burger and pie diet just wouldnt work 😉
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46814.msg1396694#msg1396694 date=1315647061]
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
[/quote]
You, my friend, are a top poster.

There, I said it.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46814.msg1396710#msg1396710 date=1315648563]
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=46814.msg1396699#msg1396699 date=1315647741]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46814.msg1396694#msg1396694 date=1315647061]
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
[/quote]
I agree with you on his age aspect, 22 is still very young.
[/quote]

Fowler was scoring 20 goals per season before he was 22. Messi, C.Ronaldo, Fat Ronaldo etc.
Owen didn't become any wiser after 22 either, I think.
I agree, he's still young but he should be contributing more. I'm not worried at all...yet.
We've only played three games in the PL.
[/quote]

Very true, but they were (and are) world class talents. Owen and Fowler started to fall apart soon after they hit 24/25 though so its not the end fo the world yet.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46814.msg1396694#msg1396694 date=1315647061]
Big andy is a juggernaut and i'll love him until he retires from the club with a record goals haul

Find me the completed article at 22. Carroll will be a monster and he's still developing
[/quote]

Agreed. Big Andy gets far to much stick imho. Think he'll be ace for us.
 
Look, we all want big AC to succeed here at LFC. No one wants the lad to fail. But posters are right to voice their dissatisfaction with him this far. His goal return, his fitness (or lack of) and his ridiculous transfer fee are big, big issues for me. Issues that are becoming more annoying as the games go by without him scoring.

Let's hope he smacks in a couple of goals today and we'll all be delighted.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46814.msg1396731#msg1396731 date=1315650572]
Look, we all want big AC to succeed here at LFC. No one wants the lad to fail. But posters are right to voice their dissatisfaction with him this far. His goal return, his fitness (or lack of) and his ridiculous transfer fee are big, big issues for me. Issues that are becoming more annoying as the games go by without him scoring.

Let's hope he smacks in a couple of goals today and we'll all be delighted.
[/quote]

I can completely understand why people wouldn't take to carroll. He comes across as a big lumbering oaf who seems lazy

i can get on board with that

But for me, he's left everything he's ever known to move (granted not very far) to a new place. Its an upheaval. Some people take it better than others (suarez for example, is a beasty globetrotter).
Added to the fact he was being touted for 1m the season before, 35m will play heavily on him.
Allegedly he didn't want to leave the toon and was forced out.
The press are continually on him about his lifestyle and how its impacting him. He's been seen in bumper (bar on hardman street) since he moved, and i'm not aware of other times. When he was injured.
i think he plays with a level of timidness at the minute that will disappear when he feels more comfortable, and settled. Recent pictures of him smiling and enjoying himself in training fill me with great opitimism.

He will come good. It might be a slow process but i have no doubt he will score 15-20 goals a season for the next 13 years.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46814.msg1396731#msg1396731 date=1315650572]
Look, we all want big AC to succeed here at LFC. No one wants the lad to fail. But posters are right to voice their dissatisfaction with him this far. His goal return, his fitness (or lack of) and his ridiculous transfer fee are big, big issues for me. Issues that are becoming more annoying as the games go by without him scoring.

Let's hope he smacks in a couple of goals today and we'll all be delighted.
[/quote]

In fairness Stu, how many games has he actually played? I too think people have the right to voice their concerns, but until he's had a lengthy spell in the team (which he hasn't had for various reasons), it's difficult to say anything either way at this stage. He should have had a goal on the first day, there was nothing wrong with it. He scored against Exeter and he played against Arsenal. Other than that he played fleetingly last season. It's still early days, I know he signed in January but his Liverpool career so far has been a non-starter. Give him time.
 
Fabio you make it sound like he was plucked from some Amazonian jungle.

Anyway isn't the argument that if you sign Premiership proven players they settle more quickly and are more likely to succeed ?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46814.msg1396781#msg1396781 date=1315654036]
Fabio you make it sound like he was plucked from some Amazonian jungle.

Anyway isn't the argument that if you sign Premiership proven players they settle more quickly and are more likely to succeed ?
[/quote]

That's the argument, but for me the mentality of the player is paramount. I think carroll will do it for us, he just needs to settle
 
He's going to take as long as Lucas to settle at this rate - can we bench him for a year or two ?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46814.msg1396787#msg1396787 date=1315655100]
He's going to take as long as Lucas to settle at this rate - can we bench him for a year or two ?
[/quote]

He takes as long as he takes

I still think he offers a lot even when he's "off form"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom